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Fish Head

Muskie Stocking

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Al who ? Just kidding but it could be pouring rain and there still wouldn't be a 100% unanimous vote that it's actually raining. I realize the rigamoral with it but honestly if I didn't like the fact muskies were in the lake I have a place on I'd put it for sale (memories of the good ol days or not) and move onto greener pastures. I doubt your walleye fishing would instantly become magic again because muskies aren't present. Hammer handle pike I think with the way they hit anything is likely the biggest culprit, pike are out of balance.

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42 minutes ago, O.T.C. said:

Al who ? Just kidding but it could be pouring rain and there still wouldn't be a 100% unanimous vote that it's actually raining. I realize the rigamoral with it but honestly if I didn't like the fact muskies were in the lake I have a place on I'd put it for sale (memories of the good ol days or not) and move onto greener pastures. I doubt your walleye fishing would instantly become magic again because muskies aren't present. Hammer handle pike I think with the way they hit anything is likely the biggest culprit, pike are out of balance.

It is a public relations thing and Al still doesn't get it.   If someone isn't a musky fisherman or doesn't make money off musky fishermen, there needs to be some reason that the people who fish the lake or live in the area should want muskies and the associated musky fishermen in/on the lakes that they fish.   What is the benefit to a walleye fisherman that fishes Gull, or Mille Lacs (RIP) or Vermilion just to name a few to having muskies stocked in those lakes?   It takes money and resources away from other fish, makes the lake more crowded, etc.  

I like muskies but I can't think of a reason why someone who doesn't fish for them should want the dnr investing in the musky fishery, other than helping the economy or out of solidarity with other fishermen.   Come, you can do it.  Why stock muskies other than to attract musky fishermen?

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The muskie stocking issue is all about opportunity. Many of the existing lakes are very crowded. Muskie Fishing is a growing sport while overall fishing license sales are going down. The DNR has a World Class Muskie Fishery that people have traveled from all over our country to fish for  muskies. The overall muskie fishing peaked a few years back and we are hoping to see the state return to prominence.

The DNR developed their 20 year muskie plan back in 2008 and we are just now getting to the point of implementing it. The DNR did not ruin any walleye lakes or any bass lake or any crappie lake by the introduction of muskies into them. The plan is low density stocking. They are the last fish in the system to spawn. The fry have very poor success surviving to a 30" size.

Now for my "Can of Worms"

I think that we need to back off on legislation for the little issues of fish and game related regulation. The DNR is capable of making the right choices for managing our Lakes, Lands and Rivers. If they were funded better they could do even more good work.

Legislating laws by lakeshore owners for the public waters of this great state is the wrong path and it sets a very bad precedent. What is next? The quiet lake does not want public boat launch updated or renovated? Legislating no boats on the lake between sunset and 9:00 AM? No more duck hunting on my lake?

The DNR has the opportunity to change regulations if they make a mistake. Once laws are legislated in they are chiseled in stone.

I want the DNR to have the funding to do their jobs. I fully support them - They may not always make the right decision but they have the opportunity to change it if their plans fail.

Steve

 

 

 

  

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On the other hand they didn't exactly cover themselves with glory dealing with Mille Lacs.  I know that there are those who blame the native netters, but the truth is that the DNR was in charge, and had 3/4 of the take to work with, and in the process wrecked the walleye fishing in the lake.    They were the "scientific experts" and they blew it. 

Now it seems the pols and resort owners are trying to cut a last few chunks off the corpse of the Mille Lacs walleye fishery, and the DNR is cooperating. 

Of course folks might not (probably won't)  agree with me. 

Edited by delcecchi

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3/4 of the lake to work with but a large % of the spawning walleyes are on very few acres at the time of the netting. Let em net in July then since the nets do no damage, why does it have to be May or late April ? Answer for a quick and easy slaughter. They have the money to open their own walleye rearing ponds and go that route but they want it to be bad so they can buy up your resort in time. So what on earth will they eat without a walleye quota ? How can they survive ? I'm starting to see this walleye netting as a big crock of. They need walleye for sustenance seems like a big lie to me.

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Sigh.  Go read the FM Mille Lacs forum.  This was hashed over there in detail.  The "blue ribbon panel" convened by the DNR agrees that the netting did not cause the issues on Mille Lacs.  The problem was driven by the DNR mismanagement of the 3/4 of the allowable harvest by anglers and the slot.

Have you read the report of the Blue Ribbon Panel?  It has been out for a while now. 

 

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Delccechi guy i do have to tell this the nets are iust a % of the problem whatever it is collectively. I get the mille lacs messenger weekly and have read up since the late 80's but there is one thing i must add and it is catch and release mortality and what % that might play. I'd say roughly 15 years ago i powered my boat across mille lacs and saw hundreds if not over a thousand dead walleyes floating the dnr asked me at the ramp said was really ugly so tight slots = tons dead was in late July but anyway that was an unreal sight hit dozens of em with my boat, back to musky posts 

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I will say that I used to be a big fan of the DNR, but lately I am having doubts as to their ability or will to properly manage our various natural resources.   I don't know if it that they don't get enough money, they are not allocating the money properly, incompetence, or there is too much political meddling in the process of decision making,  but in recent years things don't seem to be going as well.  Deer, Mille Lacs, Muskies, Moose, invasive species stickers, asian carp, poachers getting off due to missteps,  and so on. 

And I think the musky stocking problem is one of education and public relations.  

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2 hours ago, delcecchi said:

I will say that I used to be a big fan of the DNR, but lately I am having doubts as to their ability or will to properly manage our various natural resources.   I don't know if it that they don't get enough money, they are not allocating the money properly, incompetence, or there is too much political meddling in the process of decision making,  but in recent years things don't seem to be going as well.  Deer, Mille Lacs, Muskies, Moose, invasive species stickers, asian carp, poachers getting off due to missteps,  and so on. 

And I think the musky stocking problem is one of education and public relations.  

I think a huge problem now is the DNR needs to try and make ppl happy or else they will get sued, or they will have politicians breather down there necks, they have special interest groups all over them because someone will always have the opposite opinion.  Look at the live bait thing with Mille Lacs I have heard from more then a few ppl the resorts were threating lawsuits if they didn't open live bait fishing back up even though they were told if they do open live bait there is a huge chance they could completely shut the lake down half way thought the summer.  Look at the invasive garbage look at all of these lake shore associations trying to run the lakes the way they want.  I actually feel bad for the DNR they are in a lose lose situation no matter what they do or say.

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RK    29

Just the latest on this... The original bill to ban muskie stocking was not even going to get a hearing in the Senate. So the bill's author, Sen. Engibrigtsen (R - Alexandria) added it as an amendment to the Aquatic Invasive Species bill. Since it's not in the House version, it will go to a reconciliation committee. 

Just completely ridiculous.

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RK I was reading outdoor news this AM and did not like what I saw on the front cover nor the was it 53-10 vote against or something ? I tried so hard to believe that state reps and the like would truly vote on things with an open mind and not a hidden type agenda so to speak but I no longer can hold onto that hope. The last 1% of hope I had is gone. So walleye people, which I am in May, are you ready for "your" walleye population to get hammered on by us muskie guys with all the latest and greatest technologies of the world or would you like to see Muskie stocking continue so we don't come by the thousands to help you thin out the walleye population even more ? Yes lets stop stocking muskies so another 300K of us can apply direct pressure to "your" walleye. If I were strictly a walleye guy 24/7 I'd be pushing hard for muskie stocking to help alleviate the pressure that'll come if musky lakes begin to dwindle.

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You will go to the bunch of lakes already stocked that will continue to be stocked with muskies.  I don't understand why you can't see that there are a bunch of folks who aren't interested in Muskies and would just as soon not have the DNR shoving them into the lakes they fish.

Personally I like Muskies.  Now Musky fishermen, I am sort of ambivalent about.   You guys need to realize every time you are rude to another fisherman you make another vote for no more stocking.  Has nothing to do with science or ecology. 

Say there is a rock pile on a well known muskie lake, and a guy is there throwing a drop shot rig for smallies, or working a Lindy Rig with a leech as you come towards it in your boat.  What do you do? 

a.  veer off and go somewhere else

b. approach at WOT, chop the big motor, drop the trolling motor and start throwing double cowgirls and pounders at the rocks as you circle the area, paying little attention to the other boats?  After all it's a public lake and the water belongs to everyone

c, approach slowly and fish the area, taking care to stay a couple of cast lengths from other boats.  

Be honest.  You know who you are.  

Edited by delcecchi

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RK    29
On 5/6/2016 at 0:15 PM, O.T.C. said:

RK I was reading outdoor news this AM and did not like what I saw on the front cover nor the was it 53-10 vote against or something ? I tried so hard to believe that state reps and the like would truly vote on things with an open mind and not a hidden type agenda so to speak but I no longer can hold onto that hope. The last 1% of hope I had is gone.

The new stocking ban language was added as an amendment to an AIS bill that had fairly wide support - and rightfully so. The initial amendment as proposed by Sen Ingibrigtsen had no sunset date, but at least that was changed to a 2020 sunset.

There is not comparable language in the House version of the bill, so a lot may depend on who conferees are on a reconciliation committee

OTC I understand your frustration, believe me...but this has next to nothing to do with walleyes or walleye fishermen. It's 100% about lakeshore owners who want veto power over how the DNR manages "their" lake. I've said for a while that the legislature has been dancing on the edge of a very slippery slope when it comes to legislating what should be managed by fisheries professionals. It seems like this session, they've decided to stop dancing, and just dive off the cliff. And the muskie stocking issue is just the beginning. Bass tournaments will be next.

Del, again, I hear you - believe me. Muskie fishermen can be their own worst enemies, especially with how they treat other anglers. But this isn't really about one group of anglers vs. another - it's about how our fisheries are going to be managed, and whether lakeshore owners should be able call the shots on how management decisions are made on what is supposedly public water. To me, that is 100x more important than whether or not one lake or another gets stocked with muskies.

 

 

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Sure. I get it.  Why should I give a rip whether Gull Lake gets stocked with Muskies?  I don't fish it, and I don't travel to fish Muskies.

So when it comes down to a decision on a given lake that is suitable for muskies, it is a power play between the folks that fish the lake, often locals, but aren't interested in Muskies and the Musky industrial complex of folks that fish muskies or make money off those who fish Muskies. 

And of course the Musky management guys at the DNR are pro Musky since Muskies are their job. 

It is sort of like the darkhouse spearing controversy in a way.   

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RK    29

Just a quick update on this. An amendment to remove the muskie stocking ban language from the house Game and Fish Bill was defeated by a single vote on the house floor last night. It had the votes to pass, but the Speaker held the vote open while the speaker's Legislative Assistant and the party whips ran around getting members to toe the line - which is strange, because it wasn't an official caucus position earlier in the day.

During the debate on the issue, the chief author of the stocking ban Rep Tom Hackbarth (R - District 31B)  stood on the House floor, and just flat out lied. I'm hesitant to use that definitive a term, but there's no other word for it. When you stand up and say that 'every lake association on the proposed lakes is against muskie stocking, and so are the local units of government,' and that statement is demonstrably false...it's a lie. Period. I've been around this stuff a while, and seen plenty of examples of distorted facts, misinformation, and omissions, but a bald face lie is pretty rare. It was really unbelievable.

Right now, the Senate is not moving on their G&F bill, and there is no comparable language in the bill if it does advance, so it'd go to a reconciliation committee. There is similar language in the Senate AIS bill, but no companion bill in the House. So it's really a mess. There is also, because of this an other issues, the possibility of a gubernatorial veto if the G&F Bill does make it through both houses. 

 

 

    

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On 5/17/2016 at 10:20 AM, RK said:

muskie stocking ban introduced by Rep Tom Hackbarth (R - District 31B)

@RK, Do you know which Reps voted for this stocking ban?

Maybe it's time they heard from their constituents on the need to let the DNR manage these issues and not legislate issues with knee jerk reactions based on special interest groups who want to control public waters.

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Hmmmm. I google and a link to musky troubles something comes up and all I get to read without entering the sight is how we have so many lakes to pick from. Usual remarks, then it says something to the effect how leech lake is a Great Lake but look at what it did to the walleyes, the walleye fishing is lousy. Google that. So now explain leech, musky troubles. Even with a ton of added pressure due to the Mille lacs saga, they tighten the slot, and it's cranking out walleye to a very satisfactory level I personally recently enjoyed that so did dozens of other boats so I guess Muskie numbers r way down on leech. Appreciate your updates RK. 

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And Muskies will be stocked in 2 lakes this Fall afterall.


Gull Lake being one. Looking forward to what that lake will produce. Should be exciting.

 

Here is the annual report from Pelican Lake where Dave M is abhorrent about muskies and how they grow over 6 feet long and threaten the lives of our children dangling their toes in the water:

 

http://www.pelicanlakemn.org/Information/2015 PLPOA FINANCIALS0001.pdf

 

BTW, he is a real sportsman since he was caught shooting Canada geese out of season because they were on his yard.... What a piece of trash.

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