Moving the Firearm Season

[BRULEDRIFTER]

And that's just it, Tedl.

The only reason this conversation is happening is because deer populations are as high as they are. People are spoiled and CAN choose what deer they want to take.

It wasn't too long ago that the whole state was a lottery zone. And with a few good winters, or even one harsh one ( which we're off to already) and that's exactaly where we would be again.

This whole arguement is also based sooooo much on the habitat where you hunt. It seems there is an over powering majority ot implement QDM in the farm and bluff country, where it seems deer a a dime a dozen, for some strange reason..

However, you don't hear form guys like me that hunt the Degaba Systems of the North country!

[Big Dave2]

I think those that hold out and wait for the chance at the big guy can be more in tuned as to what a true hunter is. Often, he or she spends countless hours in the woods waiting, and often not getting, the chance at a nice buck. Compare that to the other extreme, they go out to the stand, hung over from the night before, shoot that stupid little fork looking for love, that walks into the scent they hung out. After shooting it right away, the spend the next few days, hunting half heartedly, and more time at the bar or sleeping in.

What part of that is illegal?

What part of it makes you better than me?

I myself am sick of the term "true hunter" a true hunter is probably not any of us. A true hunter was someone who lived probably 100 years ago and had to kill any animal just to survive. I doubt that the native Americans or the first settlers to this area cared if a deer even had a rack let alone what size it was when they were trying hard to survive and make sure that their family was fed for the winter.

Hunting is what each individual makes of it. If you only value a deer for its horns then so be it. That is your choice. I personally put the same value on EVERY deer, not just big ones or ones with large racks.

[96trigger]

Quote:

What part of that is illegal?

What part of it makes you better than me?

Do you even read the posts? When did I ever say it was illegal. When have I, ever, said that I was better than anyone, ever. I'll save you the time and having to read, I didn't, ever, nor will I.

That post was in response to some of the statements about "trophy hunters or true hunters" just wanting to go out and see trophy deer and not wanting to put the time in. BigDave2, you have kind of a problem with putting words in peoples mouths and totally misinterpreting statements. It gets old.... I'm probably done on this topic, we are just going to regurgitate all the same info all over again. I'm sorry that it is crappy where you hunt, we get it, OK.

[Musky Buck]

I like the beat your chest trophy guys. When it comes to bucks who wouldn't rather take a larger one vs. a smaller one. Don't go into the meat is better or whatever, it's so seasoned up and marinaded or pork or beef is added. All I've been eating is mature bucks and yes the steaks are tougher, but the rest I can't tell the difference, it provides all the burger my family eats for the year. Cross tagging is bad, yes the illegals will still get the wife with 10 inch fingernails a tag or whatever but it has to end with the buck population. That has eliminated thousands of bucks over the years and lots of guys not shooting a buck they are willing to tag, but shooting it for whoever else. I think if we don't curb this one first, moving the rifle date later won't do much other than freeze out the elderly hunters and some younger hunters will be turned off.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

What part of that is illegal?

What part of it makes you better than me?

Do you even read the posts? When did I ever say it was illegal. When have I, ever, said that I was better than anyone, ever. I'll save you the time and having to read, I didn't, ever, nor will I.

That post was in response to some of the statements about "trophy hunters or true hunters" just wanting to go out and see trophy deer and not wanting to put the time in. BigDave2, you have kind of a problem with putting words in peoples mouths and totally misinterpreting statements. It gets old.... I'm probably done on this topic, we are just going to regurgitate all the same info all over again. I'm sorry that it is crappy where you hunt, we get it, OK.

Fair enough trigger, All I want to know though is what is wrong with the guy in the second scenario? He is doing nothing illegal so why do you hate him so much?

[Musky Buck]

True hunters barely exist anymore, it's sitting in a stand and bang, same for fishing, it's 2008 and times have changed. We don't have the room to be true hunters anymore, lots of people are on a small parcel today.

[sticknstring]

There's no hate, just different beliefs on deer hunting. The guy who blasts the fork opening morning complains about what to do now that their tag is filled? Can't just sit around camp or chop wood... no way. That person feels compelled to continue to sit and blast yearling bucks for the rest of his party. Hopefully it won't be legal too much longer.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Fair enough trigger, All I want to know though is what is wrong with the guy in the second scenario? He is doing nothing illegal so why do you hate him so much?

Last one, nothing is wrong with those guys. If that is there idea of hunting than so be it. Right now it is legal. I know plenty of those guys. All the talk about passing on small bucks will never effect those guys. I think that is why some people want it legislated by the DNR. Maybe if more of those guys would get on board, and pass up some of the small ones, we wouldn't need to be asking for legislation and having these discussions. Again BigDave, I never said that I hated anyone, I think some of the terminology you use, really makes it seem like you are putting words in our mouths. I just have fundamental differences from "those" guys, thats all. Its not right or wrong.

[BeezeHound]

Cross tagging is bad, yes the illegals will still get the wife with 10 inch fingernails a tag or whatever but it has to end with the buck population. That has eliminated thousands of bucks over the years and lots of guys not shooting a buck they are willing to tag, but shooting it for whoever else. I think if we don't curb this one first, moving the rifle date later won't do much other than freeze out the elderly hunters and some younger hunters will be turned off.

I agree, hunting the rut keeps the youngsters entertained and gets them hooked which is what we need. The future always lies within the younger generation so keep 'em intrested and keep them in the woods. I see the same inexperienced 1.5 year olds running around the woods the whole season before the rut so why would it be any different two weeks after the rut? Many things would need to be done other than just setting the season back two weeks.

[Musky Buck]

Right on boozehound, I saw 4 yearling bucks this muzzleloader season at 30 yards or less. I enjoyed watching them, but I have taken 6 yearlings, but none since 1994. You should just kinda outgrow the need to drill a yearling unless you actually need the meat and the guys I know that need the meat can't afford to deer hunt. If we can still cross tag what will moving the season back do ? It won't stop the wolves or poachers and it won't stop the deer from being more nocturnal or cross tagging. It would lead to a more fit society of deer hunters here because driving deer would become a big part of the hunt. Listen to the bellyaching already of people not seeing deer during the rut, imagine what 2 more weeks of nocturnalism would do. Boozehound is right, putting the season a couple weeks later is like a bandaid on a cut jugular.

[Musky Buck]

I think to our liberalized hunting method. Remember when you had to declare yourself a rifle or muzzy hunter. Maybe we should have to declare what we are and no more hunting all three seasons. Pick either bow, rifle or muzzy. DNR could just raise the price tag on each of the three. I just feel bad for the traditional musket guys that never rifle hunted, now they don't get the experience they used to get, they might as well rifle hunt now.

[Musky Buck]

Reading my own jibberish, if we move the rifle season, when would musket hunters go ? Before rifle ? After ? ie. zone 1 rifle is 16 days ? I know, no easy solution.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

That is why everything should just be left alone!

The best weapon the QDM'rs have is EDUCATION! The more evidence you have that this theory is the best possible way to manage our deer, the more ammo you have for those of us who question the real objective of QDM. And presented properly, you could be very convincing. However, in these post a lot of you lack that kind of tact.

I have learned a lot reading and arguing in these posts. I am FULLY against changing anything and forcing anything on anyone else. I fully believe that hunting should be left up to the individual that pulls the trigger or releases the string.

I may come off like the type that shoots anything and everything. And when it comes to where I hunt during the rifle season, I more then likely will knock it down if it's brown if I don't have a deer yet. But I bow hunt and early season I let little guys walk and wait for something bigger. But like HE!! do I want to be denied a deer just because a special interest group passed a law telling us that it has to be so big to shoot at it. To me that crosses a line!

If I want that particular deer, then by all means I should be entitled to take what ever I want, as long as it's with in the law!

As this wheel goes round and round, something to think about is we are all pretty much on the same page. Where the argument comes from is passing laws and regs. We have enough of those, and in reality, no law or reg is really going to change anything. It all boils down to edumacation!

[Musky Buck]

Some of those regs have changed things a lot brule, when our area went from zone 4 split weekends to a straight 9 day, things drastically changed where I hunt for the worse. I'm trying somewhat to speak for the little guy, yes I have taken a 14 pt. this year and a bruising 8 pointer last year so the zone change hasn't affected me one bit. I have quality land. The other 19 hunters in our group have not had much luck the past 2 seasons. It could be a lack of mature bucks because that is it for our group or a doe or doe fawn, no buck fawns or if in doubt do not fire. We charge each hunter a dollar for every bullet fired, goes to our processing costs, poor uncle hammering at a coyote cost him a lot. You are right, it is up to individuals and their hunting party. Let's just hope some guys that have shot lots of yearlings bucks get tired of gutting yearling bucks, to them it isn't about hunting, it's about shooting, getting "my" deer, not going home to the wife empty handed without horns, going to the bar "got my buck", etc.

[tedl]

It wasn't that long ago that you could only harvest one deer a year per person. Has everyone already forgot those days? They may be back!

Just leave the seasons were they are and be happy that we have the right to hunt! Is that not enough?

Worry more about urban sprawl, the biggest problem facing hunters is an 80 getting divided into a bunch of 5 acre and smaller lots. This is displacing a lot of hunters look at Hugo for an example.

[Big Dave2]

Right on boozehound, I saw 4 yearling bucks this muzzleloader season at 30 yards or less. I enjoyed watching them, but I have taken 6 yearlings, but none since 1994. You should just kinda outgrow the need to drill a yearling unless you actually need the meat and the guys I know that need the meat can't afford to deer hunt. If we can still cross tag what will moving the season back do ? It won't stop the wolves or poachers and it won't stop the deer from being more nocturnal or cross tagging. It would lead to a more fit society of deer hunters here because driving deer would become a big part of the hunt. Listen to the bellyaching already of people not seeing deer during the rut, imagine what 2 more weeks of nocturnalism would do. Boozehound is right, putting the season a couple weeks later is like a bandaid on a cut jugular.

You may have outgrown the need to shoot yearling bucks but what about the next new hunter? You say yourself that you have shot 6 yearlings plus how many others that would not have been large enough for an antler restriction possibly? Does everyone get to shoot 6 of them before you have to start shooting larger ones? Sounds good to change the rules now after some have already gone through their growing pains, but remember there will always be new hunters. My son will be one of them.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

Fair enough trigger, All I want to know though is what is wrong with the guy in the second scenario? He is doing nothing illegal so why do you hate him so much?

Last one, nothing is wrong with those guys. If that is there idea of hunting than so be it. Right now it is legal. I know plenty of those guys. All the talk about passing on small bucks will never effect those guys. I think that is why some people want it legislated by the DNR. Maybe if more of those guys would get on board, and pass up some of the small ones, we wouldn't need to be asking for legislation and having these discussions. Again BigDave, I never said that I hated anyone, I think some of the terminology you use, really makes it seem like you are putting words in our mouths. I just have fundamental differences from "those" guys, thats all. Its not right or wrong.

Trigger,

Please believe me when I say that I am truly sorry for upsetting you. I was just trying to argue the points in your post but probably was not doing a good job of wording my replies. I think that you and I can certainly agree to disagree on this matter. I just don't want to leave you upset with me. I'm not really too bad of a guy once you get to know me, I just like to argue sometimes when I feel passionately about something.

Sorry.

[Big Dave2]

Right on boozehound, I saw 4 yearling bucks this muzzleloader season at 30 yards or less. I enjoyed watching them, but I have taken 6 yearlings, but none since 1994. You should just kinda outgrow the need to drill a yearling unless you actually need the meat and the guys I know that need the meat can't afford to deer hunt. If we can still cross tag what will moving the season back do ? It won't stop the wolves or poachers and it won't stop the deer from being more nocturnal or cross tagging. It would lead to a more fit society of deer hunters here because driving deer would become a big part of the hunt. Listen to the bellyaching already of people not seeing deer during the rut, imagine what 2 more weeks of nocturnalism would do. Boozehound is right, putting the season a couple weeks later is like a bandaid on a cut jugular.

It doesn't have to cost much to deer hunt. The first time I ever went I borrowed a shotgun from a neighbor and all I bought was 2 boxes of rifled slugs at $5.99 each and a blaze orange vest and hat.

[bigbucks]

True, but many did you get a bad deal on those rifled slugs, unless you really meant sabots. Just kidding you a little, not really picking you apart.

[Big Dave2]

True, but many did you get a bad deal on those rifled slugs, unless you really meant sabots. Just kidding you a little, not really picking you apart.

I never get a good deal!

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Musky Buck

Cross tagging is bad, yes the illegals will still get the wife with 10 inch fingernails a tag or whatever but it has to end with the buck population. That has eliminated thousands of bucks over the years and lots of guys not shooting a buck they are willing to tag, but shooting it for whoever else. I think if we don't curb this one first, moving the rifle date later won't do much other than freeze out the elderly hunters and some younger hunters will be turned off.

I agree, hunting the rut keeps the youngsters entertained and gets them hooked which is what we need. The future always lies within the younger generation so keep 'em intrested and keep them in the woods. I see the same inexperienced 1.5 year olds running around the woods the whole season before the rut so why would it be any different two weeks after the rut? Many things would need to be done other than just setting the season back two weeks.

That is a fair enough point. I think many of us are just open to any kind of change that could help. To me it doesn't matter what that change is as long as some younger bucks make it to the next season.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Trigger,

Please believe me when I say that I am truly sorry for upsetting you. I was just trying to argue the points in your post but probably was not doing a good job of wording my replies. I think that you and I can certainly agree to disagree on this matter. I just don't want to leave you upset with me. I'm not really too bad of a guy once you get to know me, I just like to argue sometimes when I feel passionately about something.

Sorry.

No harm, no foul BigDave. We can debate on the next topic. We are all adults here and feel strongly about our beliefs and hunting as many of us are very passionate about it.

Bruldrifter, we are not that far off in our thinking. I don't like the people that look down on others for shooting what they want. However, we are going to differ in that I do believe in places where it is not that difficult to take a deer, like Intensive harvest areas, that we can do some to help out the little guys a little. I think that many people are now following their own set of guidelines and are letting the little ones go. I strongly encourage anybody that has the ability to do it. My whole point for even supporting AR is that if I had the choice of moving the season, EAB, or AR, I would take AR in a heartbeat. I don't want to come off as pushy in those beliefs, I am kind of a recent convert to that thinking. Even with the way things are now, I get a shot or at least, a close encounter with a trophy, and I mean trophy whitetail every year. Which is more than what most guys get, however, I spend a lot of time in the stand the last week in October and 1st week in November, moving and removing stands, working areas that I have seen the bucks going from previous sits. They are not easy to get and you have to be whiley, and lucky all at the same time to be successful. Even if we had more around, I'm sure people might still complain, because as they get older, they get smarter, and are a very worthy adversary. This year, the bucks got the best of me, but you can bet that next year, I'll be trying to even the score.

[propster]

The point that a lot of people are missing when looking at the other midwestern states with later gun seasons, that Minnesoata absolutely pales in comparison to when talking about mature buck sightings and natural rut movement, is this. Bowhunters are allowed to hunt during the rut and see great bucks, harvest great bucks, and see more natural movement. However, gun hunters still also shoot plenty of deer, and plenty of big, mature bucks (more and bigger than by archery), and they get to shoot their little bucks too. Their herds are in better health, with a better ratio, and the gun season not being in the peak of the rut is a big reason for it.

[BeezeHound]

Propster, for one, the gun hunters way way out number the bow hunters so of course they are going to shoot more and biggger deer than archery hunters, thats just a statistical fact. More sets of eyes out in the woods to be looking out for that old mossy rack. What I was really wondering is, what's the diffference between a young buck shot during the rut or two weeks after the rut? It's still dead. How does that promote better herd health and adult buck to doe ratio? I'm not ranting, just curious on your thoughts.

[BLACKJACK]

Hunting is what each individual makes of it. If you only value a deer for its horns then so be it. That is your choice. I personally put the same value on EVERY deer, not just big ones or ones with large racks.

Right on Big Dave!!!!