Why is baiting illegal here?

[minnesotahunter]

thanks bear55 at least someone gets the drift...... big antlers dont come from the biologic totally. ya biologic may help in producing big antlers not because it has hormones but because it has what animals need to grow healthy... once again check out the HSOforum its all typed up for you on there. and i think no matter where you hunt the bucks are 1) real and 2) true, i have yet to see a false deer in the woods.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

We are on total different side of the spectrum on this! I'm done...There is nothing left today on this.

Amen!

What a heated discussion this has turned to be. I was out after page 2, but you guys are doing a great job keeping it alive!

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

Bruledrifter you are missing my point completely. A food plot is a food source just the same as clear cut, a alfalfa field, a bean field, a garden, someone's back yard, even a ditch along side the road. They all man made food sources the deer prefer depending on the area they live. Yet for some reason you call one baiting the rest are natural. You seem to be a little bias agaist one of those food sources for no good reason.

What about a guy who builds a stand over a fresh clear cut? Its a man made food source, he is building that new deer stand with the sole intent to hunt over it. Baiting or not?

A landowner clears some of his land to plant alfalfa for his cows. The same year he puts up a new deer stand the very same year to hunt over it that fall. Baiting or not?

Please re-read every one of my post over the last day. If you still can't figure out where I'm coming from, then forget it! It really doesn't matter anyway! You are not seeing from my point of view at all!

I have explained my point of view at least 3 times. If you can't decipher the difference in my mind between a "natural" food source vs. a manipulated unnatural food source then you never will.

We are on total different side of the spectrum on this! I'm done...There is nothing left to day on this.

Brule I understand what you are talking about I just don't agree with it and I am asking you a few questions why you feel hunting in one place should be legal while another is illegal and "not hunting" as you put it.

Here is another one for you, there are two bean fields. They both get hunted in the fall. One gets harvested later that year and the other sits over the winter for the deer. You are telling me the guy hunting over one field should be fined and possible lose his hunting rights while the other guy is a hero because his beans were harvested? Makes no sense if you ask me.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

OK Bear! Read this it clearly states where I draw the line

An old alfalfa field that has been there and was planted for the purpose of growing alfalfa for humans I do not consider a food plot or baiting. It was put there not for the purpose of hunting over, as is a clear cut, farm field, ect.

However, once a PERSON goes to a spot and proceeds to plant a food source there for the sole intent of hunting over it, then I percieve that as baiting. I'm not sure I can be any more clear on my stance on this.

If a food source is present that was not put there for the purpose of luring an animal there to feed, in other words it occurs naturally or is there for purposes beyond our control ( like farm fields, clear cuts, apple orchards) then by all mean, it's fair game and should be used to our advantage.

I draw the line as soon as something is MANipulated by a person for the sole purpose of taking advantage of an animals need to eat in order to kill the animal.

This is no longer "hunting" to me, this is merely a lazy approach at target practice with live critters.

Hunting is about the fair chase and outsmarting an animal in its natural environment. Once a natural environment is manipulated for the sole purpose of attracting an animal, the hunt is no longer there.

I can't believe people don't see this to be honest, but it doesn't suprise me. It is quite sad though....

In the end, as long as people are with in the laws, then whatever! Too each their own! But I truely hope that our natural resource managers will stand behind the true, real approach to harvesting game and not let the lazy way take hold.

This is my opinion, and I don't care what you think of it! Take it or leave it, it's how I roll!

Your above scenario about the bean field I have no problem with because it was not put there solely for the sake of hunting over it!!!!!

If you planted it under the intention of specifically hunting over it. YES I have a problem with that and would like to see that outlawed!

[vister]

No one get me wrong here, as i am the guy to blame for starting this post filled with many different opinions. Some of us here are definetely stern with our thoughts as anyone reading here can tell. But i do spend countless hours and time, money and sweat into scouting, and helping maintain a healthy herd in the off season. Best of which is the food plots i start before most farmers in the area have their crops in, including my dad of whom is a crop farmer.

I have done this for years now, and have yet to shoot a deer in the middle of a plot. Strictly plant just to give the deer in the area something very healthy for them early in the year, which IS the most important time of the year. Fawns need to eat a lot to grow strong before everything turns brown in the fall. Ma needs to eat a lot to produce a healthy, abundant milk source for her kids in the spring. Why not be something nutritious for them? The buck i harvested this bow opener was shot near a food plot. by near, i mean 1/2 mile. and not on a trail leading to or from the plot either. the benefits of having them are great. healthier and stronger deer. why wouldn't you want that?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

But i do spend countless hours and time, money and sweat into scouting, and helping maintain a healthy herd in the off season. Best of which is the food plots i start before most farmers in the area have their crops in, including my dad of whom is a crop farmer.

I have done this for years now, and have yet to shoot a deer in the middle of a plot. Strictly plant just to give the deer in the area something very healthy for them early in the year, which IS the most important time of the year. Fawns need to eat a lot to grow strong before everything turns brown in the fall. Ma needs to eat a lot to produce a healthy, abundant milk source for her kids in the spring. Why not be something nutritious for them? the benefits of having them are great. healthier and stronger deer. why wouldn't you want that?

Or you can look at it this way......

A lot of folks here cry that the buck to doe ratio is out of whack..... Many people claim there are way too many deer these days, ect....

Well, maybe if these methods of baiting were eliminated (including recreational baiting too) maybe Ma Nature would take care of the herd itself! By feeding them with these nutritious foods during these harsh times of the year it increases the likelihood of deer that normally wouldn't survive to survive. Then they pass those genetics onto the future generations, and the wheel goes round and round. Take out these deer naturally and you get better genetics and a healthier, wild, more in tuned deer herd!

[james_walleye]

There is a definate difference between a 100 lb pile of corn and a 20 acre foodplot.

[cribbageboy]

Minnesotahunter,

I guess i don't drive the state looking for and measuring foodplots. Not my idea of fun, but maybe yours. If you continued to read my string of posts you would have read my argument about standing/laying corn. If I plant a small plot of corn (standing on the stalk) it is legal to hunt it correct? Now if I cut it down, AND LEAVE IT ON THE STALK it is now illegal to hunt it. I simply don't see a difference. I guess deer don't want to hold their heads up to eat???

My point is this. The DNR needs to AT LEAST make a more distinct line between baitpiles and food plots. If they cant do that, then they need to make both legal or both illegal. I think they would have a much easier time making baitpiles legal than they would making food plots illegal. I also feel that a change in making food plots illegal would anger the public more than making baitpiles legal. JUST MY OPINION!!!

[Eskimoman]

Bait piles make it alot easier to shoot deer. I have used them in Wisconsin. I will not use thyem again. If you are too lazy to pattern the deer and want a 20 yard shot everytime go ahead and bait. Just not in Mn.

[minnesotahunter]

bruledrifter..... the reason for intensive harvest areas is to get rid of deer, i dont think we should cut out food plots to do so. plus how would that weed out bad genetics?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Survival of the fittest!

[cribbageboy]

Age: 18

First season: 2002

No Land Owned, Hunt Public Land

Currently attending college for Wildlife Management and Law Enforcement

Don't worry Bruledrifter. I understand exactly where you are coming from. There is absolutely no reason a bean field should be left standing through rifle season unless it was a warm fall, thus it now becomes a food plot IMO. A form of baiting.

Both food plots and baitpiles are SPECIFICALLY designed to attract deer. No arguements there I hope.

Maybe baitpiles shouldn't be legal. That is still up in the air for me. What I do firmly believe in, is making food plots and baitpiles BOTH illegal or legal. Both reduce fair chase, neither spread diseases, and both require some level of scouting, yet one is legal, and the other is not. If the DNR can't or won't outlaw or legalize both, than they NEED to clarify the regulations that somehow make the two different.

[vister]

I have taken deer out to 400 yards with my rifle. in some sense, doesn't that eliminate fair chase. like mentioned earlier, how about deer drives. its not natural movement of deer to be running wide open across the plowing. in what sense aren't food plots fair chase?

[bigsandynorth1]

Vister your taking this a little far because now you could say portable deer stands should not be allowed, we hunters should climb a tree and sit on a limb. Lets move on with this topic, agree to disagree and we will have to see what legislature does with this issue. Until then, shoot straight!

[Jim Uran]

There is a definate difference between a 100 lb pile of corn and a 20 acre foodplot.

I'd like to hear the BIG DIFFERENCE between the two. What, the trails to it are a little farther apart?? And it's harder to grow and maintain a foodplot rather than just go the "easy route" and dump out a pile of corn, or whatever. I think that's where most of the animosity comes from, everyone that has the means to grow food plots are on the high horse because they can, and everyone that can't grow them (myself included) are kind of pi$$ed off and jealous??

[bigsandynorth1]

Leech, you don't know the difference between the two?? Seems pretty easy to figure out. Not to sound rude but this topic is dragging on, but you have a pile of bait and a field of crop. The corn is yellow in color and will most likely be in a pile next to a trail...If you have been by a farm, look out in the fields and this is what a food plot will look like depending what the hunter decides, most likely beans or corn. I hope this information helps you so you know the difference. Move on, who cares! If your jealous, go talk to a farmer and get permission!

[Jim Uran]

UPnorth, your a little south to be using that handle aren't ya. I don't need to hunt over either, My family puts in plenty of time scouting throughout the year and it pays off on public land. If that's the only difference YOU can come up with than I guess there is no need for further argument, it's settled.

[Black_Bay]

Cribbageboy, I understand you are attending college for wildlife management. If you haven't already I suggest talking to your professors about baiting. Other people to talk to, especially in Grand Rapids, are Glenn D. DelGiudice and David L. Garshelis. Both of those guys are pretty busy this time of year. This topic may be something you could do an undergraduate research project on.

[Big Dave2]

Just out of curiosity, would anyone here be apposed to baiting if it were only legal for first time hunters age 10-13 or something like that?

[Black_Bay]

No. It would just get kids off to a bad start and have them think that is the way you do things. Plus there would be parents taking advantage of it for themselves.

[minnesotahunter]

Originally Posted By: james_walleye

There is a definate difference between a 100 lb pile of corn and a 20 acre foodplot.

I'd like to hear the BIG DIFFERENCE between the two. What, the trails to it are a little farther apart?? And it's harder to grow and maintain a foodplot rather than just go the "easy route" and dump out a pile of corn, or whatever. I think that's where most of the animosity comes from, everyone that has the means to grow food plots are on the high horse because they can, and everyone that can't grow them (myself included) are kind of pi$$ed off and jealous??

Everybody can grow food plots if you have the equipment to do so or not, try frost seeding

[Big Dave2]

Everybody can grow food plots if you have the equipment to do so or not, try frost seeding

Not if you do not own your own hunting land.

[tealitup]

Since it seems the big argument is CWD and bait piles. So why not make it legal just during hunting season? The average deer hunter might be out for what... 4-5days of the season at most. Do you think 4-5 days of bait piles are going to contribute to CWD?

I would also suggest - most firearm hunters do not "hunt hard" rather its luck. How many of those hunters only hold a weapon in their hand during the weekend of opener?

Do you want to reduce the herd? If so, allow baiting for one weekend of the year.

At the same point allowing baiting maybe "unethical" - which is another topic. How many firearms hunters do not care about ethical hunting if they can have meat in the freezer. In a perfect world we could say all are hunting should be ethical; however, those who only hunt opening weekend, shoot their firearms once a year -- do they really care?

[sticknstring]

Quote:

Just out of curiosity, would anyone here be apposed to baiting if it were only legal for first time hunters age 10-13 or something like that?

Absolutely I'd be opposed. Instead of promoting cheating, advocate the reward of hard work, scouting, & dedication. I'll add it's important to have kids see deer and be successful at early ages to keep them interested but by having them sit over a pile of corn is not the answer!

[Jim Uran]

By the way, I'm not for baiting deer, or growing food plots for deer(for the purpose of hunting over them). To me and probably only me, they should be grouped into the same category. That's where I was going with my little gripe.