Why is baiting illegal here?

[96trigger]

Feeding deer should be against the law, period. It sucks, when they have a killing winter, but that is nature, and nature can be harsh. Last year, the deer were at my inlaws eating the landscaping, they were skin and bone. Even got some picks of a few that maybe didn't make it. If it came down to having some deer starve to death, or have a herd wiped out with CWD, or worse yet, have heard with BT and they spread it to the neighboring dairys. I'm going to have to say starvation. It is the harsh truth. I agree that its stupid that people can feed deer all year, but during the hunting season it has to stop so disease won't spread. More disease gets spread in the spring when the deer are looking for food and 20 to 30 are going to the recreational feeders, than the one or two deer that may stop at a bait pile to grab a bite. I am not for baiting at all, I am biased, I live in an area rich with agriculture. The deer usually have enough food to survive a long winter. If I lived in area like Northern MN, I might feel differently. Just my OP.

One last thing. I enjoy not knowing where the deer will come from, will it be above me, below me, come from behind me, around the corner? Having a bait pile would have me concentrating on that bait pile, and missing some of the other cool stuff that happens, and to me, would take some of the enjoyment and surprise, the hunt, if you wish, out of the hunt.

One more thing, food plots are not baiting. They help everythig in addition to deer. Also, food plots will not spread disease like a pile of corn .

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

Deer food plots have no other purpose than to "bait" deer for hunting.

Big Dave, you're totally wrong there. Most people, myself included plant corn food plots to help animals, mainly pheasants and deer, get thru the winter. My focus has been on pheasants, without a good winter food source I'd have 1/2 the pheasants that I currently do, because cropland is scarce where I live. If I was only feeding pheasants, I could get by with 1/2 acre of corn. With the deer flocking in, I need 3-4 acres of corn just to get them thru to March/April. But I enjoy the deer too. My Sunday morning routine in Jan and Feb is to sit with a cup of coffee by the spotting scope and watch the deer in the mornings, up to 25 at a time.

That's great that you plant and leave some crops for wildlife but it is still true that you do it to attract the deer and pheasants to your place. Those deer would still make it through the winter without your food plot only they would be more scattered. Also, for those who do not own a plot of land where one could plant these food plots, wouldn't a corn feeder also be helping these animals get through the winter?

I just believe that if it is illegal for me to pile up corn in order to attract deer to my area then it should be illegal for those with food plots to hunt over that artificial food source.

[Big Dave2]

If a true hunter wants a deer most every season, go out into the woods and find the trails and bedding areas and set up on those traveled routes. Thats just as good as baiting with corn. Where we hunt, if one sets up on good travel corridors, you will see deer move.

Yes, this takes some time to scout an area out but it does work. I realize that some areas have a larger herd but, for those areas with a smaller herd, deer movement can still be patterned without a bait pile.

It is not the easiest way but it is a good way to harvest a deer without a bait pile.

What is the definition of "true hunter"?

Do you hunt on public land? Or do you hunt the same farm country reveine that has been hunted for decades where deer have to funnel through to get to where they want to go?

Do you use a rifle or shotgun or modern compound bow to take deer? Or do you use a sharpened stick?

Do you use modern scent inhibitors and doe scent, grunt calling tubes molded from chinese plastic, and elevated manufactured steel deer stands?

I have a feeling that when our forefathers were trying to feed their families for the winter that many a pile of corn or grain was used to their advantage. Were they "True Hunters"?

[cribbageboy]

Exactly. This is a question that I have asked several times in my own thread, and nobody can give me an answer why the regs are written the way they are.

If I sit in a deer stand on opener that is 20 yards from a corn "food plot" it is legal. HOWEVER, if I cut down say 20 corn stalks and put them in a pile that is 50 yards away from my deer stand, I can now be cited for baiting.

It is a problem that the DNR NEEDS to address. Why are food plots legal in the hunting season, but not piles of food. They are sometimes used for the same purposes, and you and I know that the DNR is not to niave to recognize this.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

I feel that if you feed a animal it is now a pet and I for one will not shoot my pets.

If you call them and they don't come, they aren't pets! I wouldn't shoot them either as the challenge element is removed. I would also hate to see baiting become legal in MN. To me, the hunt is what it's all about, not the kill. I sit on stand without seeing deer very frequently. It would be tough knowing the reason was from the neighbors altering deer movements with baiting. Fair chase is what it's all about. If you feel you have to bait since that's the only way you can fill a tag, do it in WI or MI. The difference between a cornfield and a pile of stocks is HARVEST & INTENT. You've intentionally harvested a crop and placed it a manner to lure deer. The difference is obvious. Soon as archery season is over, we'll fill the feeder with corn and pellets and help the deer through the winter. The people that claim food plots are essentially baiting have not made a food plot. I've planted them for 3 years and have yet to shoot a deer over one. I watch them eat lush greens all summer long but cash crops reign in the fall. It takes a lot of work to establish plots and I'm guessing a good majority of the participants are interested in much more than a deer harvest. Providing nutrition to the animals we love is a big part of it.

[deerminator]

Have you ever been on a drive?

Yep. And I didn't care for it because it took a lot of the challenge out of it for me. Again, not my cup of tea, but I'm not persecuting anyone for doing it. I'm just saying be careful before throwing the first stone at legal baiters in other states or if it ever became legal here. Because there are a lot of other methods of hunting that increase your odds equally and are considered "sportsmanlike," whatever that means. Deer will visit the same food plot every evening, just as they would with a bait pile, etc. Putting corn out all year and removing it 10 days before season to be legal establishes a travel route that might not ever occurr naturally. They are apples to oranges but they all give a definite advantage.

Also, I read an interesting article by a wildlife biologist the other day that said baiting often drives off the big bucks. This gentleman observed that large doe groups take over the bait piles completely and the big bucks, especially in areas where food is plenty, such as farmland, don't want the hassle of competition and stick to the corn and soybeans.

[Badger]

I agree with you 100% sticknstring! Our camp does not bait and wish it would be banned. It has changed the natural pattern of deer movements in the area we hunt, which is hardwoods & many swamps. We scout every year and prefer to still hunt during the season. A pile of corn in the woods is not natural and we don't consider that to be fair chase. If someone wants a big buck that badly, go to a high fence operation and sit by a feeder. When that elusive monster comes by, shoot him (like catching a trout out of trout pond raised on pellets). Mount the "trophy you earned", and put it in your den or office. Then brag to your friends about what a great hunter you are.

[Bear55]

I feel baiting is not the answer. First off it gives us a bad public image, this may have not been an issue years ago but it is something we have to think about with all the anti-hunters out there. There is certainly the desease factor, some may discard this argument but how can you not at least consider it a threat. It also gives an unfair advantage to hunters with huge bait piles. I know Wisconsin has a 5 gallon rule but in Minnesota it illegal and that doesn't stop anyone so will a 5 gallon rule really do anything? Comparing baiting to a food plot or crops really isn't possible because of so many variables. We have a food plot way up north and I can tell you that not one deer has been shot over that plot in 5 years, the deer certainly use it as we have photo evidence but its not like you see on TV when there are 50 deer out there and you just take your pick. As far as I can tell we have the only food plot within 5 miles, the deer should be lining up to be shot. Last of all I feel baiting is just the lazy way to go. Why should a guy go out and scout and actually spend time in the woods when I can just dump a pile of corn on the ground and shoot the first deer that walks by.

[lichen fox]

Baiting was legal in Minnesota prior to sometime in the early 90's...but, hardly anyone did it because they "thought" it was illegal! We had a couple of tough winters in the late 80's and about that same time the Minnesota Deer Hunters organization came into being...they rallied sportsman to help save our deer population by feeding...Club funds were used to help supplement the individuals efforts and later the MDH successfuly lobbied the DNR to also dontate specially formulated feed to help in the effort, later they also designated a portion of every license sale to be put aside into a special fund that would pay for any future "need" to feed deer in a bad winter...Our party was there...picking up our alotment of feed each week to supplement what we ourselves had purchased...we fed about 150 deer that winter and watched them many evenings right out our cabin windows...members that did not have land of their own voluteered to feed on public lands....There were still deer that died but a very small percentage by comparison as to what was saved....the results in our area was that we did not even notice that there had been a hard winter come the next season, and the deer weren't running to the area's that we had fed the prior winters either!Then more hunters started Feeding?baiting in deer season and the Minnesota Deer Hunters endorsed the DNR's proposal to make baiting illegal in Minnesota in the early 90's. So, it was legal and harldy anyone did it...then the MDH & DNR educated everyone on how many deer you "could see" over a ton of bait and baiting became rampid! A problem was created especially by the amount of feed some of these guys would put out on public land...a tandem load of beets...a couple of tons of corn and sunflowers in one pile? Truth is, they created the problem and now that's the only way they know how to fix it is by making it illegal...more laws...I say make it legal....BUT...limit it to private land AND limit the amount of "bait" a hunter may have out...make 'em work at it like we have to work at baiting bears...how about limiting the bait pile to no more than a 5 gallon pail? If you get checked and the officer can put whats on the ground into a five gallon pail, you're ok...if it's 6 gallons you get a warning...if it's more...you get a ticket! And by the way, I've fed deer recreationaly too and what I've noticed is that you'll see alot of doe's, fawns and smaller bucks but unless they are extremely stressed you'll rarely see a shooter buck in the daylite...I've sat at our cabin and watched on some moonlite nites and the big bucks rarely come in before midnite...especially after they've been dogged by hunters for 3 months's!

[Big Dave2]

I feel baiting is not the answer. First off it gives us a bad public image, this may have not been an issue years ago but it is something we have to think about with all the anti-hunters out there. There is certainly the desease factor, some may discard this argument but how can you not at least consider it a threat. It also gives an unfair advantage to hunters with huge bait piles. I know Wisconsin has a 5 gallon rule but in Minnesota it illegal and that doesn't stop anyone so will a 5 gallon rule really do anything? Comparing baiting to a food plot or crops really isn't possible because of so many variables. We have a food plot way up north and I can tell you that not one deer has been shot over that plot in 5 years, the deer certainly use it as we have photo evidence but its not like you see on TV when there are 50 deer out there and you just take your pick. As far as I can tell we have the only food plot within 5 miles, the deer should be lining up to be shot. Last of all I feel baiting is just the lazy way to go. Why should a guy go out and scout and actually spend time in the woods when I can just dump a pile of corn on the ground and shoot the first deer that walks by.

The bad public image comes in when sportsmen can't even agree on an issue. Is it bad public image to bait Bear or fish or while trapping? These activities are not only tolerated, they are expected.

I WILL dismiss the disease factor until feeding deer the other 11 month out of the year is also banned. Obviously the DNR is dismissing it so I will as well.

I don't get the unfair advantage argument. If anyone who wants to can bait, how is that unfair to anyone? The way it is right now, the only ones who can legally bait are those who own land and plant crops. Who has the unfair advantage now?

You say that no deer have ever been shot over your food plot but state that deer do use it. Couldn't the same thing happen to a corn pile? Maybe the deer are wise and only show up after dark to eat from it. Talk to any bear hunter and they will tell you that just because you put out bait, even if those baits are hit daily, is no guarantee you will bag a bear.

Isn't a food plot a "lazy" way to go as well? All you have to do is plant it and build a stand over it and wait for them to show up.

[Bear55]

I guess I don't see hunters debating a topic online as worse than the public images of hunters using bait to attract deer.

You can dismiss the disease factor all you want but it is something that has to be considered. Look at Michigan, they found CWD in a captive deer and now everyone except the UP can't bait, I don't think our DNR would react any differnt than Michigan if CWD was found in MN.

Right now the baiters have an unfair advantage over the average hunters, even if they limit the baiting to 5 gallons some guys are going to dump truck loads of bait out. It happens all over the place. The unfair advantage will come when someone else has more or higher quality bait.

Like I said before food plots have many variables, a large food plot or corn field are much different than a small bait pile that attracts deer to a small area.

If you haven't put in the hours I have on food plots then you wouldn't know how much work they are. Trust me it takes a lot of man hours to put in a high quality food plot.

[sticknstring]

You don't get the unfair advantage argument? It's not a legality issue of whether or not you can do it. It's to the guy who hunts fair chase, scouts 12 months a year, spends long hours and money planting food plots, or saving vacation to spend time in the woods making all the hard work pay off but can't because the guy next door has got piles of corn over over the place. And if you think food plots are the "lazy way" in filling a tag, think again. Just because you're not willing/able to put in the time, don't harp on others on a subject you know little about.

[Big Dave2]

You don't get the unfair advantage argument? It's not a legality issue of whether or not you can do it. It's to the guy who hunts fair chase, scouts 12 months a year, spends long hours and money planting food plots, or saving vacation to spend time in the woods making all the hard work pay off but can't because the guy next door has got piles of corn over over the place. And if you think food plots are the "lazy way" in filling a tag, think again. Just because you're not willing/able to put in the time, don't harp on others on a subject you know little about.

Wait a minute here. What if I do all the things you state in your reply like saving vacation and spending time on stand and plenty of scouting but because I don't own my own hunting land "The guy next door" as you put it, just plants 10 rows of corn and leaves it up for the deer to eat and for him to hunt over, keeping the deer all in his yard while there are none on the neighboring property that I am hunting. What is the difference between this scenario and one where I dump a 5 gallon pail of corn out a couple of days before I hunt?

I am not harping, if anything it is all those who think there is such a thing as fair chase when hunting animals that don't know they are being hunted that are doing the harping. I am simply stating my opinion. And BTW I grew up on a farm so I know how much work it is to pull a corn planter through a field. So I do know a little about this subject.

[harvey lee]

A hunter to me is one that hunts for the enjoyment, with family and friends and gets out into the woods and places man against the animal in a way that does not include bait piles. Not a poacher or a guy that drives around and shoot them from the window.

I hunt with rifle and by archery. I do use an elevated stand but then I would assume the native Americans would also climb a tree if that is the direction you are headed.

One can argue or debate forever that food plots, stands and call until the end of time but it will never be solved.

[sticknstring]

harvey - you hunt both N.D. where bait is allowed as well as MN where it is not, correct? What has your hunting experiences been in both states with/without bait?

[Bear55]

Wait a minute here. What if I do all the things you state in your reply like saving vacation and spending time on stand and plenty of scouting but because I don't own my own hunting land "The guy next door" as you put it, just plants 10 rows of corn and leaves it up for the deer to eat and for him to hunt over, keeping the deer all in his yard while there are none on the neighboring property that I am hunting. What is the difference between this scenario and one where I dump a 5 gallon pail of corn out a couple of days before I hunt?

I am not harping, if anything it is all those who think there is such a thing as fair chase when hunting animals that don't know they are being hunted that are doing the harping. I am simply stating my opinion. And BTW I grew up on a farm so I know how much work it is to pull a corn planter through a field. So I do know a little about this subject.

[Big Dave2]

Wait a minute here. What if I do all the things you state in your reply like saving vacation and spending time on stand and plenty of scouting but because I don't own my own hunting land "The guy next door" as you put it, just plants 10 rows of corn and leaves it up for the deer to eat and for him to hunt over, keeping the deer all in his yard while there are none on the neighboring property that I am hunting. What is the difference between this scenario and one where I dump a 5 gallon pail of corn out a couple of days before I hunt?

I am not harping, if anything it is all those who think there is such a thing as fair chase when hunting animals that don't know they are being hunted that are doing the harping. I am simply stating my opinion. And BTW I grew up on a farm so I know how much work it is to pull a corn planter through a field. So I do know a little about this subject.

[Musky Buck]

Vister guy, instead of planting beans then plant corn, remember cropland helps all walks of life, woodducks,mallards,geese,pheasants,turkeys,grouse,we can't tell farmers to stop farming. I have taken 21 bucks in my life with zero scent(s),not trying to brag, it's just a fact, after taking some of these I have tried scents and the bucks seem to ignore my every effort to see if they would work and don't ask me why but they have never worked,they seem to work for some people in particular areas on particular deer, I just have several bucks in my area, these scents in pressured areas won't draw out the nocturnal deer no matter what I do, I've tried calls etc. Worked 2x since 1983 and I shot neither yearling buck. Deer need water, cover, and food to survive. Want water dig a pond, want cover plant trees, want food plant a crop or food plot so all animals can benefit from it. I am glad the DNR is doing what they can to stop it. It isn't fair chase or the way I want to teach my kids to hunt. Forget scouting, playing the wind, getting to the stand an hour before I can shoot, figuring out what they are up to, where they are feeding, which stand to try. If I put corn etc. out in my swamp I'd know where they are feeding, they'd actually start traveling less and maybe even get more nocturnal because they won't need to walk as far to feed,I also might bump them out of the area because on a calm day I'd probably spook them at the pile, if the food is a given and they're not worried about it they might be mopping up that pile at midnight. We have to hunt with rifles sometime or we'd have a deer burgeoning mess on our hands, we can't take an extra quarter million animals bow-hunting. Do the bow hunters want another 400,000 bowhunters out there ? Bow season is 56 days before rifle and another 45 days after it is done. Vister you made a good point, about the rut, but that is exactly why we don't need bait because the rut helps a lot of us take that quarter million animals. If you want to bait vister, you claim the scents work like magic so you don't need bait, load up on scents and you must connect every year on a good animal since scent works so well. If you really hunt the Bertha-Hewitt area you don't need nothing, that is extremely prime area for deer. Vister look at deer season rifle hunting numbers, we get about 225,000 deer roughly, what percent is antlered bucks ? If all of these I don't want to say gimics but if all of these things work so well, wouldn't the 460,000 rifle hunters all tag a buck or just about ? Do we want to literally slaughter our herd so maybe after a bad winter we don't have a deer season ? If you want to bait do it during a nasty winter we are so do for and help keep some starving animals alive till Spring. The DNR says we are taking enough animals and the numbers are much lower in the past 3-4 years around my area, things are in check. Time to cut some bonus permits in some areas. 1 more on the rut, don't you really think we'd take about the same number of bucks or roughly the same if it were before or after the rut, might be easier to get them later as snow and a good food source would be a killer spot or earlier when the bucks are setting up home base and traveling much more on their own. Of course if baiting were legal, many of us wouldn't do it anyway. It's the same reason baiting is illegal for waterfowl, it becomes slaughtering and the word hunting goes out the window. I'd hate to tell my wife this...Yeah,nice buck came right into my cornpile,dropped him with 1 shot. I'd rather say caught a glimpse of a nice buck running the swamp, whistled and got lucky to freeze him up for a shot. At least I didn't have a magnet other than good property to draw him in. I know a lot of people will agree with you Vister, maybe it's the way we were brought up hunting or frustration with the amount of rifles and stands out there, but baiting is an illegal classless way to take an animal that none of us own. In our high speed fast free easy world, some want to bring that into the way we hunt, Just my opinions and observations, let a little buck walk so someone can have a thrill of a lifetime someday, you don't have to fill your tag every year, I haven't, it makes you appreciate the ones you do get all the more.

[Big Dave2]

A hunter to me is one that hunts for the enjoyment, with family and friends and gets out into the woods and places man against the animal in a way that does not include bait piles. Not a poacher or a guy that drives around and shoot them from the window.

I hunt with rifle and by archery. I do use an elevated stand but then I would assume the native Americans would also climb a tree if that is the direction you are headed.

One can argue or debate forever that food plots, stands and call until the end of time but it will never be solved.

So someone who hunts legally in Michigan , Wisconsin or any of the other 22 states that allows baiting is not a "true hunter"?

What about someone who uses trail cams? Is he a "true hunter"?

Is a Bear hunter a "true hunter"?

Where is the fair chase when it comes to fishing. By law I have to use bait on a hook and get the fish to bite it. If I were to snag the fish without using bait I must return it to the water. So which is fairer, bait or no bait?

[Musky Buck]

I simply feel we don't need baiting because our herd is check, 5 years ago I would've said ok, for that year in my area because of the tremendous numbers, now numbers are down or at what it should be, forget about the word hunter, and let's do what is fair to the deer, we are one horrible winter away from deer hunting changes, it would be nice having those baited dead deer back. I do understand many of the baited deer in MN would be shot anyway without bait, hey that's why we don't need it anyway, the rut is our bait ! I want to hear what seasoned veterans say about baiting in there state, the good and the bad.

Note from admin, please read forum policy before posting again,thank you.

[harvey lee]

harvey - you hunt both N.D. where bait is allowed as well as MN where it is not, correct? What has your hunting experiences been in both states with/without bait?

I have not hunted deer in MInnesota for many,mnay years. Yes, baiting is legal in North dakota. We do not see this as an issue as we hunt on a private ranch and from what I believe and have heard from the other ranchers, baiting is not done.

The one time I do bait is every year in the fall when I do guide a handicapped hunter for a group of handicapped people.

[Bear55]

You make a good point musky, deer numbers are down so now poeple want to bait and shoot even more deer. What happens down the road, do we just keep baiting until every hunter gets a deer every year.

Like others have said its called hunting, not baiting and shooting. If I can shoot a deer every year with a bow if shouldn't be hard for guys with rifles to tag one.

[harvey lee]

Big Dave 2

I should have added legally as its not legal in Minneosta. It is legal in many states and if they choose to do it legally, then so be it.

I guess we could use numerous situations other than deer hunting but I thought we were discussing deer hunting.

[Big Dave2]

If I can shoot a deer every year with a bow if shouldn't be hard for guys with rifles to tag one.

Yeah, if you own your own land complete with food plots(legalized baiting) then it is probably a snap.

[hhguide]

Big Dave2 our group shoots a deer with bows and guns we dont have any food plots. we put in the time and such to study the deer go and scout and sit and wait until we see something. Like others have said we find routes where the deer have to travel to the food plots. I dont think food plots should be made illegal becuase i think the deer really need those to survive when winters get bad.