Outdoor News and deer photos

[BLACKJACK]

Last week's ODN had some really nice deer pictures in it!!! And the best part is that from now until mid-winter every issue will have more deer photos in it! I bring this up for two reasons:

1) There have been some other posts badmouthing the ODN but for my money its one of the best bargains out there, every week you get an outdoor reminder and now the photos of deer every week are well worth the price.

2) For all the QDM folks that think the DNR should legislate a big buck behind every tree, the photos in ODN prove that there are lots of big deer in MN, you just have to go out there and hunt them down!!! Don't expect the DNR to do your work for you!

[c&amagn]

Well said BlackJack,

[BRULEDRIFTER]

2) For all the QDM folks that think the DNR should legislate a big buck behind every tree, the photos in ODN prove that there are lots of big deer in MN, you just have to go out there and hunt them down!!! Don't expect the DNR to do your work for you!

That is so right on! The antler obsession mindset will eventually destroy deer hunting in the future.

ODN is great! Every outdoorsmen should get this paper for so many reasons!

[96trigger]

I have been saying that on here for years. We have big bucks, go out and get them. It's so much more worth it when you have put the time in and finally score big. We DO NOT want to have big bucks behind every tree, we DO NOT want all the private land leased up, we DO NOT want to have outfitters and guides taking over our deer land and profiting from what we as conservationists have worked so hard to get. If you don't think it will happen, just look across the border to our east.... We have great deer here, it has gotten even better in the last 10 years if you know where to look and aren't afraid to go out and hunt more than one week a year. I'm not saying that those that do that shouldn't be considered hunters. Not all, but some, have a real sense of entitlement.

[sticknstring]

Great publication... I always look forward to the colored big buck contest finalists pictures.

[Jim Uran]

That's about the only good thing in that paper.

[CodyDawg]

Oh for heaven's sake. Because there are a couple of hundred pics in ODN, we have plenty of big bucks? How does one argue with that type of scientific study? You do realize there are half a MILLION hunters in MN right? I have no idea how many square miles. But we have a couple of hundred nice bucks, therefore there are plenty out there. Good grief. Oh, and half of the ones in there are not mature. WI, IA and IL shoot way more BIG bucks than we do. I wonder why?

[james_walleye]

I was about to say that, 100,000 bucks shot every year in MN and we are happy about a couple hundred big buck pics in the ODN. A sign of a healthy deer herd is good age structure in the buck population, MN doesnt have that. You can say what you want about what the DNR should manage for but if the DNR managed the deer herd with the deer herd in mind first the side effect would be more big bucks plain and simple. I dont expect the DNR to do the work for me, but i expect the DNR to manage a resource with the resource in mind first, that is what they are paid to do. They arent paid to manage a resource by public opinion polls and tradition and whatnot, it defeats the purpose of having a DNR put in place. Do what is good for the resource.

[96trigger]

I think it depends on where you are. I think where I am at, we have a good structure. I know other areas aren't as fortunate. James Walleye, for every picture that is in the outdoor news, you can go and find a mature buck pic hanging on the wall in Elba or online at a local Chatfield archery shop. If you live in Rochester, you are in some of the best whitetail hunting areas in Minnesota. I think the DNR is doing a good job in our area. I back them 100%. The pics are a small representation of what is being shot in Minnesota, but they are proof that we have nice bucks. Look at the bucks shot in Iowa and Wisconsin, they really aren't that much bigger and don't score that much higher.

[deerminator]

Look at the deer permit area map. Look at all the lottery areas. If you forced someone to only shoot a buck with so many points, the harvest would drop dramatically when combined with the fact that a lot of guys can't shoot does. And if they switched it around and let guys slaughter does and not many bucks. The population would drop dramatically. Then deer hunting would for lack of a better word, suck. The big bucks are out there, you just have to be patient and work hard at it and you will get one. Even in states like Illinois and Iowa, do you think the countryside is crawling with huge bucks like you see the pros bag in magazines and shows. No. Those guys are hunting with outfitters (and sometimes over bait piles) on property where the deer haven't been touched for years. They even say it. "We haven't hunted this land for 3 years lettting the bucks grow." Good luck with that. I'd prefer a healthy population versus see-sawing back and forth so you slightly increase your chance at a big buck.

[james_walleye]

Well i'll be hunting by Plainview this fall and maybe i'll get a different perspective. What i'm going by for the most part is alot of people that i know that hunt SE MN and then also NE IA. They say 10 miles across the border and its like a whole different world as far as the bucks that will be seen. The only difference? The way the 2 areas are managed. I've pretty much just learned to accept that MN will never specifically manage its herd for big bucks. Its all good. I've known for years that first and foremost the reason i only have 1 deer on the wall is because i don't put the time in that is really required to consisently get big deer. This year is a bit different with some new permission i have. I'm putting more time in so we'll see if it pays off. It is just frustrating to me that IMO the DNR does not manage this herd with the herd in mind first. They do to a point but if public opinion and/or tradition gets in the way of something opinion and tradition come first and i don't think that is right.

[ANYFISH]

If people think that the pic's in ODN are the only nice bucks shot their kiding themselves. Or the only B.C. buck that are in the books are the only ones that have been shot are fooling also. I personally know of 3 guys that have shot 5 bucks that would meet 180 inches but are not interested in scoring their bucks ( I have scored them, but i am not an offical scorer) all taken in the Morrison county.

Although I would love to see more 150 class bucks while I am on stand, there is no reason to manage a state wide herd for a score. The herd is managed for health and opportunity. No amount of managing will provide every hunter the opportunity at a super-sized buck, without some personal restrain and a whole lot of luck.

Big buck hunters are going to do more harm for this sport by pressing thier ideals onto others than the anti-hunter will. It is hunting, the hunter deserves the final say on what they wish to shoot, not someone else.

Also the DNR does manage deer for the better of the population, our legislature is where the social aspect of hunting comes from, DNR can only manage to the extent of the law.

[96trigger]

There are a lot nice bucks shot in Houston and Fillmore county, I will respectfully disagree that the NE Iowan deer are that much bigger. I think that there are some real monsters in Iowa and Wisconsin, and maybe Minnesota doesn't have the world record, (Thank God), but I feel that I have the opportunity to go out and shoot at a minimum a Pope and Young buck, every time I go out. Not that I am always going to see one, but I have them on camera, I see them in the fields, I know that they are there. Whether or not I get a crack at one is another story.

[james_walleye]

I'm not saying the deer in NE IA are any bigger, there is just that many more of them. I'm quite familiar with how good Houston, Fillmore, and Winona counties are, that is why i made the decision to finally get my butt down there and get some permission.

[james_walleye]

So your telling me the DNR doesnt have the right to move the firearms season out of the peek of the rut?

[Coach1310]

A sign of a healthy deer herd is good age structure in the buck population, MN doesnt have that. .... Do what is good for the resource.

Are you implying that a deer herd is "healthy" only when there are some mature bucks? I am curious what the definition of a "healthy deer herd" is. I could be completely wrong, but are 4 1/2 year old bucks a lot healthier than 2 1/2 year old bucks. Meaning, their survival rate is x % better etc. I guess the way I look at it is if there are tons of big bucks running around, shooting one isn't really that much of an accomplishment or that special in my opinion.

On topic, I think the Outdoor News is a good publication. I could live without Fellegy and I wish him and Perich would communicate on what they were writing on so they don't write on the same issue the same week, but for the $$$ it is a really solid publication.

[james_walleye]

I'm not trying to start an arguement about this topic. I realized a long time ago im not going to change anyones mind. Do a query on the phrase "healthy deer herd" and you'll find all the info you want on that question.

[matthothand]

Some of you are getting absurd. Try to shoot a mature buck over a bait pile. I'd bet you a whole bowl of tag soup it doesn't happen. Too many "meat hunters" shooting small bucks when as a state we need to take way more does. There are hotspots throughout the state where big bucks roam but overall the MN deer herd is lacking the age structure that has been mentioned earlier. We have potential but lack in execution. I blame everyone.

[ANYFISH]

To answer your question as far as moving the season out of the rut, yes, my understanding is the legislature had to pass a proposed season change.

And guy's I would love to see larger bucks as well, although I do not feel it should come from more restrictions. It is one of those things that will take time, by showing people the benifits of TRUE QDM.

My problem with some of it, is when you talk to the "Big Buck" hunters, they use QDM as what they are tring to accomplish, but in all reality they are thriving for quality buck managment and that is it. The actual herd is secondary to antler size.

Let's teach people the benifits, but lets stop forcing the ideals on to others. It will take time but maybe by our childrens generation will benifit from it.

[slimngrizzly]

How is changing the timing of the gun season "restricting" anyone?

Id like some people from Buffalo Co. Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Kansas, etc. to chime in on this site and tell us all how miserable you are for having more mature deer in your state. Do you hate seeing mature bucks more regularly? How can you stand being so "restricted", it must drive you nuts?

Its funny more states arent looking to MN as a role model for "how-to do it"? Youd think more states would be going back to traditional deer management. Why isnt that happening?

I think Outdoor News is a great Newsletter for the buck.

[subzero]

Without a doubt there are 2 very different view points to this discussion being presented. Are all the facts in when comparing MN, to Wisconsin, IL,OH or Kansas? Are there hunting seasons during peak rut also figuring that most of them are south of MN? Do they have the same amount of puplic hunting land available or are they mostly privately owned and hunted by people who can afford it? MN has a deer herd large enough to offer up to 5 deer in some area's, do the other states? With these questions in mind and the fact that between 70 and 50 percent of all MN deer hunter don't shoot a deer yearly. Are we comparing apples to apples? Is there truely very few big bucks or are they not being seen or do hunter expect a big buck every year. How many big bucks is enough and how many people have the skill needed to kill one in a lifetime much less one a year.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: james_walleye

A sign of a healthy deer herd is good age structure in the buck population, MN doesnt have that. .... Do what is good for the resource.

Are you implying that a deer herd is "healthy" only when there are some mature bucks? I am curious what the definition of a "healthy deer herd" is. I could be completely wrong, but are 4 1/2 year old bucks a lot healthier than 2 1/2 year old bucks. Meaning, their survival rate is x % better etc. I guess the way I look at it is if there are tons of big bucks running around, shooting one isn't really that much of an accomplishment or that special in my opinion.

On topic, I think the Outdoor News is a good publication. I could live without Fellegy and I wish him and Perich would communicate on what they were writing on so they don't write on the same issue the same week, but for the $$$ it is a really solid publication.

I think a heard is more natural/healthy when there is large range of age classes among bucks. This leads to a more visible and natural rut where the older bucks do a majority of the breeding. Imagine the human race if 99% of all males over the age of 17 were gone, doesn't seem right does it.

[96trigger]

Nice comment subzero. I agree. I'm not sure where to even begin when comparing Wisconsin to Minnesota. I'm not sure that many of us would like to have to earn a buck. We also have to look at how far the population has come along in the last 20 years. Big bucks don't grow over night. Every year it seems we see and hear about more and more big bucks being taken. Its only going to get better over time. The DNR and hunters are already doing a nice job. QDM is a growing trend, and thats great, but we need to be conscious about managing the population as well, not just the bucks. I also don't think we should condemn people for their beliefs. If you want to practice QDM, great, your one more person that is helping the buck population. If not, thats all right to.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Imagine the human race if 99% of all males over the age of 17 were gone, doesn't seem right does it.

Neither would one dominant human doing all the breeding. Your comparison is a bit off. The human race is supposed to be monogamous, you can't compare the two.

[CodyDawg]

"Neither would one dominant human doing all the breeding."

Well now, if that one dominant human being was me and i had to do all the breeding....!