Western tag $$$$ is crazy!!!

[Cooter]

Tyler - do you know about how many points for a good archery elk hunt in Utah? I need to decide if I should continue or not.

[Tyler D]

I think it depends on how good of a unit you are going for, the top units are 10-14 points in most cases. I would have to check again for archery I apply only for the rifle season there as most of their rifle hunts are during the rut.

Ever heard of a magazine called "the huntin fool" it is the best source of information in the world for any western hunting, breaks each state down unit by unit and gives you draw odds, how many pts are needed, average B&C scores and even average # days hunted by most people, it is ridiculous how much information is in there. I wouldnt consider applying any where without first reading what they say about the units.

[Powerstroke]

What I was trying to say didn't come out right.

[Tyler D]

First of all I really dont understand why people hate those who would like to harvest a mature animal. I only hunt for trophies, when I shoot an animal I dont waste the meat I use every last little bit just like those who only hunt for meat. Shooting an immature buck does nothing for me it is pretty easy to shoot something immature, at least for mule deer I have never hunted elk because I have no desire to do so. I would rather leave a tag unfilled than shoot something immature. The challenge of the hunt and just being in the wilds is enough for me its not about the killing but I will work like crazy to get something mature. dont really care about B&C scores but it is the best bench mark out there for judging size.

Second DIY hunting is still pretty do able. You dont have to pay someone to hunt their land when there is millions of acres of public around. (I only hunt public land) and there is plenty of non trophy units where you can by tags over the counter or have very good draw odds, but you really need to do your homework and be ready to put on some miles.

However if you want a giant you either need to put up the dollars or study everything you can, build points, and work like heck on your hunt. Cant wait for this fall keeping my fingers crossed for a unit 54 colorado mule deer tag.

[Powerstroke]

LIke I said, I wasn't trying to attack anyone on here. I've read this thread and my comments weren't about that.

I am totally for shooting a mature animal. I've only shot one whitetail buck in my life and thats because I pass on the little ones.

I too agree that there is a difference between mature and record books. I would like to hunt these animals but it seems there are many barriers to someone who knows little about it.

I do the best I can with the same philosophy here in MN. I only hunt public land also and seem to find plenty of deer, although I have a hard time locating bucks. Maybe that just my fault.

There are many other barriers for me in the way of these hunts than just the tag prices so I don't want it to seem that I'm trying to blame someone else.

[Tom7227]

A few years back North Dakota dramatically changed it's fees/rules on nonresident licenses. I don't recall the exact numbers but it was huge. The year before my wife and two of my kids and I had gone out pheasant hunting, and when the change occurred it was just going to end up costing too much.

I had a chance to talk to a Pheasant Forever biologist and he told me that there were a few legislators who had made it their goal to raise the fees on NR so high that the numbers started to drop. They did this in reaction to complaints from their constituents about how it was becoming increasingly difficult to obtain permission to hunt land without paying a fee. The non-resident hunters were on average more willing to pay fees to hunt any private land than the locals could afford, and so the locals were getting closed out of the hunting opportunities.

A few years before that I had a chance to hunt near Mott ND on some private land. A friend was a friend with a local rancher and had been going there for years. When we got there that year we were welcomed, but we were also shunted off to less productive areas. My friend was a bit put off by this, but found out later why. While we were out hunting we met a couple from Seattle. He was an anesthesiologist and she was the anchor on a Seattle weather program. They had taken the rancher on an all expense paid fishing trip for two weeks in Alaska. Clearly they had the $$$$. A few months later my friend learned that some guys from Atlanta was willing to pay the rancher $25,000 a year for exclusive rights to hunt his land. Who could turn that down? That was the end of our pheasant hunting in that area.

When we were out there hunting we paid $100 a night to stay in a 17 foot travel trailer parked in the front yard of a farm while two other guys paid to sleep in the basement.

Hunting has become a costly sport. There are a lot of competing interests. A number of people have suggested that the MN DNR should raise nonresident fees, and others have pointed out that the resort industry would oppose it. Think about what would happen if all of a sudden there was a drop in the resort business - wouldn’t there be a drop in all other support business as well? Gas stations, grocery stores, bars - everything would dry up. Then when you the Minnesota guy wanted to go fishing you wouldn’t be able to have as easy a time of it because the local businesses would be gone.

Are the government agencies taking advantage of you by charging those higher fees. Of course they are. Does it cost more to manage for a bull elk than for a cow - of course not. But if they can make the extra money and need it and use it for habitat work that’s just smart business. If the boss was willing to pay you an extra $5 an hour to work the night shift would you turn it down because the work wasn’t any more difficult? Not likely.

Others have talked about these fees being the basis for some sort of lawsuit. If you look back you will find that Mike Hatch tried to do that when ND raised the nonresident fees. The lawsuit went no place, and in reality was only a bid by Hatch to get support for his run for governor. Each state can do what it wants to manage it’s own affairs and there isn’t a court around that would rule against the types of things being discussed here.

[lcornice]

I just got done with my $85 Utah application. I have 11 elk and moose points so I'm pretty much obligated to put in every year until I draw. The only good thing is that my odds of drawing actually improved after I moved from the state. Bad news is I'll have to sell a kidney if I draw a tag.

[CAJ]

I Live in Montana and I see the prices climbing every yeat it seems. I thank a lot of big companies like Cabela's for that to. They come in here and lease up some of the prime land, and charge hugh prices to hunt. A lot of the land is being bought up by rich people that don't spend more than a few days here, but post 8o,ooo acres of prime huntting ground so noone can hunt. Thank a lot of operations like that for the prices. I would bet that most of your states are having the same problem as here. Last season, over half of the bird hunters here were from out of state, and some were offering some big money to only let them in on private land that I had been able to hunt all my life. Money isn't everything, but it sure does help. CAJ

[TommyJ33]

I got 12 points in UT, AZ and CO.

For Archery tags, I may have a chance in UT this year. I put in for point only for AZ this year as I hope to draw UT. In CO i still have a few more years before I draw a primo tag.

I am pretty committed to these states with my high points. As a beginner getting into this I doubt if I would apply for UT or AZ. for CO you have to cover the tag fee when you apply, but at least you get your money back.

DIY is the only way to go. A lot of guides know squat about elk.

Do a LOT of research and go on some cow hunts to learn. Then apply for your bull tags. I have been on 14 consecutive western elk hunts. And all have been under $1500, including the tag. Get 3 other guys to go and it cuts down on costs.

[iffwalleyes]

The hunts are there for those who want to pay. Simple as that I did a DIY elk hunt in montana this fall and wasn't sucessful but I took away many memories that were worth it alone. I was asked if I would pay a guide the next time I go and I said no way because I can do 5 trips on my own and get more satisfaction out of that than 1 with a guide. I probably spendt around 1200-1400 this year for license and trip. I bought lots of new equipment too but I will always have that so that isn't a factor for me. But that really isn't too bad condering fuel prices and tag prices. Yes it is expensive but that is they way it is.

I live in ND and have not hunted pheasants for years . I can't believe the guys that do come from out of state and pay what they do for a bird. Pretty crazy if you as me.

[Nate McVey]

I've done the DIY elk hunts in CO for 7 years now. 4 of those I lived in CO and accumulated my tent, woodstove and numerous other things while I was there. For the last 3 years I have driven from MN to join my buddies for the week. I will never hire a guide to take an elk as I have learned a lot on my own and the one 5x5 that I have taken means more to me because I worked hard for it and felt like I earned it due to the time I put in. I in no way am rippin on anybody who hires a guide, just that I will not.

When I go now, I only purchase a cow tag because to me the hunt and the camp are the important parts. I had nice bulls walk past me through the aspens on a couple of occasions this past November and all I could think was how I had found them and if I had wanted to spend the money, I could have taken one.

To each his own.............

[Cooter]

Its the cost just to get your name in the hat or on the list for a good area that burns me, especially those where its primarily public land.

Supply and demand again, no way around it. You have to pay to play.

[lcornice]

 Originally Posted By: Cooter

Tyler - do you know about how many points for a good archery elk hunt in Utah? I need to decide if I should continue or not.

I'm not Tyler but I can answer the question. It's a bit of work to cross-reference the information but Utah DWR has all their odds posted online. It's worth reading that report before making a decision.

You can find the 2007 odds report here: Utah Odds report

The easiest way to cross-reference is to look at the 2007 proclamation, here: http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2007_biggame/

Just make sure when you apply, you use the 2008 book because the numbers change! The qualifier to the odds report is it won't be totally accurate from year to year. We have no way of knowing prior to spring what the permit numbers will be. If permits go up, your odds improve. If they go down ... well, better luck next year.

The thing to remember about Utah is 1/2 the permits go to the person with the most points. For example, if there are 2 NR permits and 1 guy with 12 points applies, his odds are 1:1. If 500 other people with 0-11 points apply, they fight for the last permit. When you have points, you get your name in a hat for the number of points you have. Basically, it's a random number generator and you get 11 numbers (if you have 11 points). Consequently, your odds increase a little bit with points but you really want to be the guy with max points applying. So, if you have a bunch of points you should really consider continuing to apply. Otherwise, you'll likely never catch up.

Good luck to everyone who's applying out west this year.

[nolte]

I'm with Cooter on this one. It doesn't bother me to have to pay a high tag amount if drawn, or even to submit the tag money when you apply. But it is plain ridiculous to have to $75+ to get a general non-res hunting license to just apply. The ONLY value that most people get it to apply. It's nothing but a cash cow for the state, and only limits the amount of average Joes that can hunt on FEDERAL land.

I had numerous plans to hunt different states, but now just choose to put my $160 down and I can hunt everything WI has to offer. Or head to Alaska and other reasonable western states.

[Wallydog]

I'm awfully glad Idaho isn't being bantered about here...

Where you can buy a general elk or deer tag over the counter

WD

[Tyler D]

Well Idaho does have some of the best draw odds in the west, but non residents do have to buy the hunting liscence to apply and there is no preference point system. Plus Idaho is not known as one of the better trophy states for elk and mule deer, its mule deer dont hold a candle to colorado, but then again that is the case with almost every state. Moose are very good but sheep are average at best, until they have a point system there probably wont be a lot of talk about idaho.

[rangerforme]

Looks like about a 140 bucks to just apply for a tag in Idaho, that kind of stinks.