X67 Ice Machine - over vex/Marcum

[CRET]

I was sold on buying a LX3 until I saw a X67c by Lawrence, Has anyone used the X67 yet, How do they work and they seem pretty amazing with flasher/Graph/gps all in one for just a little more money? Wow! very impressed by the X67 and X68 ice machines, what do you think? Are they just as Good? or Better? Comments I am ready to purchase soon!!

Cret

[CrappieJohn]

The Marc and Vex both work at "real time" speed, do these? If not, you'll be missing more fish than you catch.

[Feldy]

I love lowrance for open water. Having said that the x-67 is a liqued crystal machine and is not as instant as the lx-3 or vex. Really no arguement.

[CRET]

Feldy - the Crystal X67/8 is not instant on the flasher mode? If that is the case, Lx3 for me!! Just confirm this however, You are saying the X67c is not instant like the Vex/Marc?

Cret

[Chad711]

Yes CrappieTom they are 100% real time, where this rumor that they are not came from is pretty funny.

People get hard headed on this subject, I personally have used them all, and to ME the x67 IS the best out there. Plus you will use it in the summer for trolling, finding fish etc. You cannot beat that..

[Chad711]

Quote:

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I love lowrance for open water. Having said that the x-67 is a liqued crystal machine and is not as instant as the lx-3 or vex. Really no arguement.

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Change your ping speed.

[smallieobsession]

I've been using one all winter and it is as "real time" as it gets. I use mostly the graph mode and after using I find the X67c in graph mode to be superior to my experience with the vex.And talk about battery life....you could fish 3-4 full days on one charge.

[Rick]

How is the interference reduction?

How is the visibility or how easy is it to pick out differant colors and target separation?

What happens if you leave it in -20 degree weather with the liquid crystal display?

[jipper]

One thing is that they dont have a IR button ( X67 )... So interference could play a big role around other peaple. I have a X67 on the bow of my boat and love it.

[Ed Carlson]

With the X67 & X68 you can set the Ping Speed up and down. So the higher the Ping Speed the quicker the response on the target return can be interpreted by the processor. And the lower it is set, the slower it is processed. Consider the Ping Speed as a sample rate setting and it makes more sence. Any delay on the X67 & X68 is crunched tightly on a high Ping Speed setting.

[Feldy]

Ask most ice fishing guides and they will tell you marcum or vex. I've talked to a couple that tried the x-67 and were not impressed. These guys need reliable machines day in and out. But what do they know right?

[Northlander]

The few guys I know that had them switched either back to Vex or to Marcum. I didnt like the small screen and the GPS wasnt very good. It would be a good unit if you wanted to put it on the front of your boat in the summer as well and didnt want to spring for 2 seperate units.

Interference is a problem as well.

Lowrance makes good products and I use 3 on my boat so in no way am I anti-Lowrance.

[federline]

OK, I went light hearted an posted the dead horse smiley on the other Vex vs. Marcum thread. But this "real-time" thing needs some common sense to get spread around.

First off on LCD's: The x67c is a TFT (thin film transistor) LCD, the same that comes on current personal computer flat panel displays and laptop computers. They are fast! These are two LCD generations past the kind of LCD you get on a digital watch or a microwave oven. Pixel refresh rates are around 25 ms (that's 25 milliseconds - 40 times per second - PER PIXEL).

Next. real-time: Let's be clear about "real-time" - What does that mean really? It means that what you are getting from the product is happening AS FAST AS it would happen in real life... This technical term does NOT mean that it happens AT THE SAME TIME as it happens in real life. Marketers of tech products love this buzzword for that reason. The latter ("at the same time as it happened in the real world") is indeed IMPOSSIBLE - there's the time the sound waves took to go down and come up, the digital processing in the circuits, turning on/off lights on the display. It takes time, but humans cannot perceive it.

Now, let's talk about that "at the same time as real life" part. As fishermen, we want a flasher or graph that shows action in "real-time", but also as soon as possible after it actually happened in the real world, and finally, with high resolution. Vexilar and Marcum do this the same way - with high speed spinning LED's. A high-performance LED turns on and off at 100KHz (way way way faster than even the six-million dollar man can handle). The Lowrance displays as a new laptop computer would, whether in flasher or graph mode (it's just a different display program running). Think of the Lowrance as being more like a PDA than a flasher.

Also note that the electronic circuits, chips and programs running these things have progressed beyond overkill for tracking and displaying the movement of sentient meat. The main value in these units are in the sonar transceivers and the display technolology. Digital noise suppression and auto-adjusting parameters are in the Lowrance, tho. There's more processing power in any of these these little boxes than is being used.

Without "showing my work", the Marcum LX-3, the Vex FL-18, and the Lowrance x67c are playing in the same ballfield in terms of the final output of sonar resolution / display resolution / display speed. There's no human that can actually discern the differences in their display updates and how close it is to your arm moving your jig up and down. That's why you can still use an old Zercom to get the same effect that folks call "real-time". It's not rocket science anymore, they accomplished it years ago.

The human system of eyes, visual nerves, visual cortex, motor nerves, fleshy muscles and eyesight sharpness is collectively very slow and inacurrate compared to all of these units pinging, processing and display speeds. It takes a completely alert and healthy human 0.25 seconds to correlate a visual stimulus (such as watching changes on a flasher display) with the movement of a jigging rod, if the display has enough resolution to show you the range of motion. In other words, an alert and healthy human is 10 times slower than the Lowrance display (which is itself slower than the brains feeding it information).

So, they are all "real-time" as far as any of us can tell!

[CrappieJohn]

That being said, I'll stick with the Marcum.

[federline]

Let's get garage logical about how to choose one of these three units. In my opinion, a choice between them all should be made based on:

- Storage: If you want to store your unit out in very cold weather without thinking about it, get a Vex or Marcum. The Lowrance liquid in the display will be damaged if left to freeze, which happens below -5 degrees F for extended periods. But then again, what's happening to the battery at those temps if you leave it there, too...? Bring the whole rig inside, it will last longer, no matter what brand it is.

- Dual Use: If you want a graph and flasher, and don't want to buy a separate flasher and a graph, the Lowrance is for you.

- Techno-addiction: The Lowrance is more digitally advanced than Vex and Marcum units and is better poised to use digital signal processing (DSP) for interference rejection and introduce advanced features in the upcoming years. The Lowrance is very, very fun to tweak if you like techno tweaking and reading manuals and watching videos on how to use things. If you don't like that stuff, don't buy the Lowrance - get a Vex or Marcum and keep it simple.

- Battery life: I charged the battery on my x67c the last time back in late December. I was out almost every weekend since for 5-10 hours through Cool Cats weekend. Still at 11.7v. You could indeed chain-fish for days with the Ice Machine. This is like my old Zercom was.

- Quiet: If you just plain don't want to make any more noise than you have to, get the Lowrance, it's completely silent. I had a Zercom LCF-40 and Clearwater Classic - I was jaded and couldn't stand the noise Vex and Marcum make. The Marcum is quite a bit quieter than a Vex.

- Close range interference: In tournament, contest and close proximity, large get-together situations, the Lowrance has troubles with interference. You'll have to ask other's to play with their interference rejection settings, or you'll have to turn down the Lowrance sensitivity so far you can't see your jig, except for large horizontal ones. If you like to be the big dog in a house or a crowd all the time, get a Marcum, you'll hardly ever get blasted. The Lowrance works for me here, I like to fish away from everyone else if at all possible.

- Display motor service and maintenance: Vex and Marcum displays are motorized. Motors wear out with use and age. If you keep them long enough, or use them enough, you must service or replace the motor to retain like-new performance. No such thing on the Lowrance. If you get a new flasher every few years, this is not going to be an issue for you anyway.

- Service convenience: Vexilar has never missed a beat locally. Marcum is still proving themselves. Lowrance is a large multinational corporation with a mail-in service center in Oklahoma and authorized dealers everywhere in the USA and Canada. Vexilar is in Bloomington, MN. Marcums get sent up north to Brainerd for service. I've personally walked into Vexilar in Bloomington and talked with technicians. I'd say that if you're in the Twin Cities metro area, get a Vexilar if neighborly service and convenience matters a lot to you, and you can deal with Vex in-person. If you're in the Brainerd area, and the same applies, get a Marcum. Otherwise, either you or a dealer will be shipping it back to the factory for service anyways.

- Staying power of ice fishing product: Vexilar, hands down. Remember SiTex? Hondex? Micronar? Same product and technology, made better each year. There's something to be said for consistent proven engineering principles.

- Staying power of company: Lowrance and Vexilar. Marcum is still proving themselves. I'd say once people get over Zercom's history, people will calm down about it.

[gspman]

I did love that dead horse graphic.

[nthomps66]

I've used the X67 all winter and have no complaints. I've fished next to an LX-3, FL-18 and FL-8 in the past three weeks. Each one of them works well and does practically the same darn thing. Except, the X67 has more features to play with, is also a color graph and will be awesome mounted on the bow of my boat this summer...

[Jim Hudson]

It all boils down to personal preference and what you need your unit to do.... I have fished with all three units, and have stayed with the vex 18 because of what it offers for where I fish... All three are good units.. all three have pros and cons that each user of each type of unit can give you... but in the end it is the unit that you feel comfortable with and how you match it to your fishing needs...

[CRET]

How does the gps work on the x68 or x67 (whatever one has the gps) can you mark a spot and get back to the spot later?

Cret

[MetroEye]

Federline,

Might I say...EXCELLENT POSTS!!!! You hit the nail on the head on all counts. Why don't guides use this unit? I would guess that they stick with what they know and what has worked in the past. The X-67 is new and gaining popularity. I was at an FM seminar recently and the pro staff were discussing vexs and marcums for ice units. I finally raised my hand and asked about the X-67. None of the staff were familiar with them. It will take time to gain some familiarity with ice fisherman.

I would also like to emphasize something federline said above - if you are not into gadgetry, lots of options, adjustments, and flexibility, stick with the vex or marcum.

[Chad711]

Quote:

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How is the interference reduction?

fished right next to a lx3 with another board member, in my portable, no interfernance at all, ONCE I finally figured out HOW to set the Interferance to high,. Also fished the Brainerd tourney with hundreds of sonars, mine was fine.

How is the visibility or how easy is it to pick out differant colors and target separation?

Just the same as the others, BUT you can pick colors if you want (great for the colorblind?)

What happens if you leave it in -20 degree weather with the liquid crystal display?

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Nothing, works perfect. I fish 5-7 days a week, I am in Bemidji. Toughest conditions out there. Last years brainerd tourney was -30 with windchill, never missed a beat, its not like the old lcd screens or like you cell phone. Plus the battery lasts me 30 hours of fishing. Also, it makes NO noise like the other flashers. I have great hearing and that is a bonus.

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[Chad711]

Quote:

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One thing is that they dont have a IR button ( X67 )... So interference could play a big role around other peaple. I have a X67 on the bow of my boat and love it.

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It sure does, under flasher options, you can only get to it in graph mode...

[Dennis Steele]

Great post Federline.

I have used all three and have had my eye on the 67 since they came out two seasons ago. I think they are a good unit and would get one myself except for a few reasons. With my (have to say limited) experience with them that at times the interfernce reduction does not work well. I don't know what causes it not to work at time but sometime it doesn't.

I also found that they are complicted units to run. You HAVE to read the manual and "practice" running the unit until you get used to "tweaking" it. Like a lot of guys, I don't read directions!, and there is a ton of them on that unit. To me there is nothing worse than getting out to the lake and spending a lot of time fidgeting with your electronics. BUt I suppose when a guy gets used to running one that wouldn't be a problem.

I also found I didn't care for the number of colors the unit has. Maybee and most likely I am just easily confused.

THe unit also has a tough time shooting through ice if the conditions are not just perfect. That is one of the biggest reasons I am a Marcum fan. THat thing will go through just about anything even "white" ice. I typically don't drill a hole untill I mark fish on my Marcum. Thats the biggy for me.

WHat I do like about that 67 or the 68 is a color graph/flasher. I doubt the colors would bother me on the graph but haven't tried the graph. It would be handy to have that feature.

I also like the GPS function included in the unit. I always have my Marcum in close to hand if not in hand on the ice and that does sound like a nice feature.

[smallieobsession]

WOW...there is some excellent info being put forth on this topic. I just want to go back and qualify my post about the X67c being superior to the Vex...what I mean is...For ME, I felt it was superior. It is a certainly more gadgety than the vex/marcum but then again I'm a software consultant so I tend to be gadgety to begin with and find it very natural to whip through the screens, menus, settings, etc. second nature for me. Secondly, when sitting in the portable all day long I like the visual aspects of watching the graph vs the vex type flasher. For me it just seems like a much better visual representation of what is going on down there and is easier to watch for hours. Again, this is just my opinion. They all do a great job. It is in fact personal preference. I will say however that if you can't program the time on your VCR, the X67c is probably not for you.

[MetroEye]

I just started using the graph split screen option on the X-67 this past week while fishing suspended crappies. Wow is that handy - right side shows entire water column, left side can be focused on any area in the column with 2X and 4X zoom capabilities. Between the X-67 and the Aqua-vue I think I could sit in my portable for 24 hours straight without a second thought!

[Matt Breuer]

In my humble opiniom, the X67 is junk!

I have fished next to them with my vex and they were showing 240 feet of water?? Odd to me!

Lowrance is awesome in the summer, no doubt, but they should have stayed there! I wouldn't trust it in the Winter.

Just my two cents!