12VDC wire?

[WalleyeYetti]

Wiring the 12VDC circuit in fish house and have a few questions:

1. What gauge recommended 14-2 or 12-2?

2. What type of wire are you using? Stranded? Marine grade?

 

thanks

[Hawg]

I used individual wires in 12 ga. Stranded. My only 12 volt was for truck lights (tail lights, markers, etc). With the weight of today’s houses why not just have a generator with? For quiet time’s, battery operated LEDs last forever. 

[WalleyeYetti]

Yeah you have a good point, will have a generator.  

[Grainbelt]

It all depends on the load you intend to be using. The higher the amperage draw the thicker the wire you will need so it doesn't overheat the wire. Led's use a fraction of an amp. 12 gauge is for heavy draw and is what I use for an extension cord from the generator to my house. 

[WalleyeYetti]

Voltage drop needs to be considered as well that is the only reason why I am thinking of just going with 12 AWG. I was just thinking of buying a roll each of red and black stranded THHN for 12VDC but curious if that be a bad idea and should use something like a marine type cable but that seems over kill? 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Tinned-Oxygen-Copper-Sheathed/dp/B0799HTZB5/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?keywords=marine+cable&qid=1580136110&sprefix=marine+cable&sr=8-12

[papadarv]

Standard auto/trailer lights, clearance, signal, break etc. use 16AWG wire. There based on 13.8vdc (altimeter charging voltage) with a 5% volt loss for wire length. Inside your Yetti, the greatest 12vdc current draw will be your furnace, 35,000 BTU suburban draw 9 amps. Fishing electronics (FL-8 205ma, FL-28 275 ma, camera 300ma, 12v TV 480ma) 1000ma = 1Amp. Use LED lights, the draw about 20% current compared to iridescent lights.If you decide to use a 12vdc to 120vac converter to charge your auger batteries, I suggest you direct connect the converter to your battery with wire and clamps provided. 

Wire size calculator to help decide what you need

https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html

[BobT]

If all you're running are lights and the furnace, a 15A circuit would be more than adequate, which would be 14ga. The wire lengths involved are minimal so voltage drop should not be a concern.

[fishingstar]

9 hours ago, WalleyeYetti said:

Voltage drop needs to be considered as well that is the only reason why I am thinking of just going with 12 AWG. I was just thinking of buying a roll each of red and black stranded THHN for 12VDC but curious if that be a bad idea and should use something like a marine type cable but that seems over kill? 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Tinned-Oxygen-Copper-Sheathed/dp/B0799HTZB5/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?keywords=marine+cable&qid=1580136110&sprefix=marine+cable&sr=8-12

This all you should need. I used similar wire in my house and it has been fine for five years now

[Hawg]

12 volt converters seem to short and cause way more problems, and fires, than they are ever worth. Then trying to diagnose the problem almost requires you to start all over. Another good reason for a wall mount direct vent furnace that doesn’t require a fan to stay heating. Why split hairs between 12 ga. and 14? Cover yourself if you do it. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Hawg

[rl_sd]

Can I assume that you are wiring all of this into some sort of power converter vs. directly to a battery?  Either way, I am hoping that you meant to say 12VDC circuits. I would have a dedicated circuit for the furnace, all the lights can run on one, and I went as far as to wire each of my cigarette lighters separately. use a fuse block and a buss bar if not going through some sort of PD or WFCO power converter. 10 ga should be ran from the battery to the distribution source with the assumption that it is a short distance (<4'). If you are buying the rolls of stranded wire from amazon or ebay, I suggest going one size bigger.... If the calculator says 16ga is ok, go 14 and so on. The wire seems to be a little on the light side..... maybe it shrinks on the boat ride over . Check out the link that Papa posted for the calcuator, it looks spot on. Lots of people don't account for total distance (up, down, and around). I wouldn't mess w/ the sheathed. Are you running the wires in the walls or? .

[delcecchi]

On 1/27/2020 at 9:10 AM, BobT said:

If all you're running are lights and the furnace, a 15A circuit would be more than adequate, which would be 14ga. The wire lengths involved are minimal so voltage drop should not be a concern.

15 amp for 14 ga is for 110 vac circuits.   10 feet of 14 ga will drop 1/4 volt with 10 amps.   

[BobT]

9 hours ago, delcecchi said:

15 amp for 14 ga is for 110 vac circuits.   10 feet of 14 ga will drop 1/4 volt with 10 amps.   

Oh yes, I was thinking 120vac. Sorry.

[delcecchi]

1 hour ago, BobT said:

Oh yes, I was thinking 120vac. Sorry.

It still drops the quarter volt per 10 feet (don't forget the neutral return doubles it.) but it doesn't matter as much at 110.

[vtx1029]

you don't want to used copper tinned aluminum wire. Use Oxygen free copper or 100% copper. the aluminum will corrode away and just leave white powder. also they can not carry as much current as pure copper.

 

[delcecchi]

Heavens no.  Never use Aluminum wire for anything short of major power feeds.

[WalleyeYetti]

So I am at the point to start wiring and to make sure I don't forgot anything I drew up a quick schematic. For the 12VDC circuits leaving the Power Converter I will run 12AWG THNN Stranded wire (https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/h08/h62/8854083633182.pdf). For the 120VAC circuits I will run 14AWG romex cable.  For the Cable coming from Shore outlet to Converter I will run 10AWG Stranded cable. For the power converter I am using the Progressive Dynamics 4045. I have not figured out yet what to run from the battery to power Converter. I have gotten a lot of good feedback here so I thought I would share this and see if anybody has any feedback on anything I could be doing different or wrong.  Let me know your thoughts.

Ice House Electrical.pdf

[Jim Almquist]

The power converter should tell you what gauge based on distance between it and the battery . The farther apart the heavier the gauge they will want you to run.

[1968]

waytekwire.com has great wire plus other supplies, and is local. Puts regular store wire to shame.

[rl_sd]

On 4/1/2020 at 9:53 AM, WalleyeYetti said:

So I am at the point to start wiring and to make sure I don't forgot anything I drew up a quick schematic. For the 12VDC circuits leaving the Power Converter I will run 12AWG THNN Stranded wire (https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/h08/h62/8854083633182.pdf). For the 120VAC circuits I will run 14AWG romex cable.  For the Cable coming from Shore outlet to Converter I will run 10AWG Stranded cable. For the power converter I am using the Progressive Dynamics 4045. I have not figured out yet what to run from the battery to power Converter. I have gotten a lot of good feedback here so I thought I would share this and see if anybody has any feedback on anything I could be doing different or wrong.  Let me know your thoughts.

Ice House Electrical.pdf 25.43 kB · 5 downloads

 

 

Couple of questions/comments...

• Check the draw on your AC. I assume that 15amp @ 14 awg will be good enough, but would be good to confirm. Make sure to look at the draw at start up.
• Have you gotten the 12 ga THNN wire yet? Seems like a lot of the companies tend to oversell the gauge of the wire. It looks like you have overkilled the gauge requirement for most of your DC circuits (i.e. lights) which is good, but if you feel it is lightweight, you might want to step up your furnace and DC outlets again
• Hard to tell from the schematic, but you are running both ground and positive back to the source correct? I wouldn't start tying ground circuits together. Every connector that you put in a wall is a potential fail. Obviously it is unavoidable for items on the same circuit, but the schematic looks like you are tying grounds across circuits.
• Just a follow on to the previous comment.... Are you spray foaming or doing batts/foam board? We did spray foam "from the outside in" against the tongue and grove before we sided it. For that reason, we cut PVC and used it as a junction boxed and then taped the ends of the PVC before foaming. All connections occur in these boxes... that way we can get to them "if" some butt connector causes a problem or we need change out something (had a few hold lights fail, and this work awesome to replace)
• Are you putting your hole lights on a switch? Didn't see one in the drawing
• Are you using pancake style ceiling lights? I was wondering if you had the capability to turn them off individually if desired. Another comment on the same topic. We put in a 3-way for the ceiling lights so that we have one switch by the entry door and one by the back bunk.... Is definitely nice when the rattle reels go off at 2 am!

These are just somethings that we did... along with some things that we should have did - but it looks like you have put a lot of thought into this. It is definitely easier to do things the right way first!