Save A Doe - Please Consider It

[icehole10]

Just curious, a few of you keep referring to "hunting up north", what do you consider up north? I hunt in 184, north of highway 2 and I consider that up north. I have been up to the cabin almost every weekend since the 1st of August, and am most years. We do a lot of driving around in that area for bear baiting, bear hunting, grouse hunting, and just driving around in the evening looking for deer, and in my opinion, there is a pretty healthy population of deer around. Seeing lots of does with 1-2 fawns, small bucks, and even a few dandy's, which are usually on private land, but still fun to see! Maybe you are referring to further north, and I would have no opinion on that, but I feel where we hunt, they are moving in the right direction. Just my two cents. Good luck to those who decide to pull the trigger, and have a safe hunt!

[Satchmo]

icehole.....you are definitely "Up North".  I hunted the 184 area for many years and now own land down in 246. Your area has a hugely divers set of terrain. From big woods to small tracts, to ag land in the west. I guess it's really not really a matter of how far north you are for deer recovery. Each situation has to be looked at individually. There are many pockets of the state that have very good populations, and others that are downright dismal. What most of the "Save a doe" campaign is about, is to have people take a long, hard, honest look at what would be best for their individual area to recover from the low population numbers we have experienced in the last few years. Some areas have come back quite quickly, while other areas have far more challenges to that recovery. IE: predation, weather, high hunter density, etc. For some it will always be easy to rationalize shooting everything they see. While others will actually take a long hard look at THEIR situation, and make the hard choices to improve their situation in the long run. There is no right answer, but each of us can effect change in our own areas much faster than the DNR can with their broad brush approach.

[Boar]

I agree satch, I would like to know, wouldnt it help if we went back to the 2day weekend and 4 day weekend. why did it ever change to a 9 day season anyway. Im not a huge deer hunter but have hunted deer for 35 years. i should be up on this stuff, so sorry for silly question.

[nofishfisherman]

I don't think the DNR mismanaged every zone but there are some that they were way behind in changing the harvest limits. 

If you live or hunt in one of the zones that was managed properly and that has prime deer habitat to support large populations its easy to maintain your faith in the DNR.  However, move to another zone and see what its like there it might tempt you to remove the rose colored glasses. 

 

 

 

[Satchmo]

I agree satch, I would like to know, wouldnt it help if we went back to the 2day weekend and 4 day weekend. why did it ever change to a 9 day season anyway. Im not a huge deer hunter but have hunted deer for 35 years. i should be up on this stuff, so sorry for silly question.

Yea, but tradition is a powerful thing. Though difficult,  I think getting people to think about being active participants in their deer management is a far easier task than getting them to accept a new season structure, myself included.

[Boar]

Well tru, I started hunting when it was a two weekend season, that was my tradition, before i was old enought to hunt I do slightly remeber a nine day prior that my father would hunt. I agree its easier to change the mind thanto change the date of christmas, but dose anyone know why it changed? I remeber wen it was a two weekend season, there were deer everywere, we used to have an orange army the first weekend, 15-20 families and freinds and it was no problem filling out either. drive and post drive and post. then it just kinda started evolve to stand hunting, and  the 9 day. i suppose that if one only had the weekends to hunt he wasnt very management minded, and shot the first deer he could tag. Its been interesting to watch the managment practices evolve. but it sure seems that they are having more difficulty doing it these day. Ive watched my zone 257 go from 5,3,2,1 but still never had a problem seeing deer.interesting read. i like to hold out for a a mature deer.

[deerminator]

If I don't have any luck with bucks the next two weekends with my bow, I'll be using my archery tag to find the next mature doe I encounter. I'm in a Hunter's Choice area and I see lots of does. I think it should be Managed. And really, more people like myself need to speak up. Because that's how the DNR sets bag limits. Its not science. it's the most vocal hunters who determine what the DNR decides. They base their limits on what the most vocal hunters want, not the health of the state's herd or anything related.

[Farmsfulltime]

If I don't have any luck with bucks the next two weekends with my bow, I'll be using my archery tag to find the next mature doe I encounter. I'm in a Hunter's Choice area and I see lots of does. I think it should be Managed. And really, more people like myself need to speak up. Because that's how the DNR sets bag limits. Its not science. it's the most vocal hunters who determine what the DNR decides. They base their limits on what the most vocal hunters want, not the health of the state's herd or anything related.

Agree with this the squeaky wheels get the grease , Been a lot of new squeakers the last few years and the dnr hears them some .

[jbell1981]

 i suppose that if one only had the weekends to hunt he wasnt very management minded, and shot the first deer he could tag. 

That was always our philosophy when hunting the old 4A season. "If it's brown its down" was always the saying when you only had 2 days. It's been hard to break that "tradition" but we don't shoot fawns like we used to (except for the kids) but we will still shoot does when we have a tag (but that's been pretty rare lately too). 

[ANYFISH2]

If I don't have any luck with bucks the next two weekends with my bow, I'll be using my archery tag to find the next mature doe I encounter. I'm in a Hunter's Choice area and I see lots of does. I think it should be Managed. And really, more people like myself need to speak up. Because that's how the DNR sets bag limits. Its not science. it's the most vocal hunters who determine what the DNR decides. They base their limits on what the most vocal hunters want, not the health of the state's herd or anything related.

do you want it managed because there are to many deer in the entire permit area?

Or do you just want an opportunity to shoot more than 1 deer?

Edited November 5, 2015 by ANYFISH2

[Satchmo]

If I don't have any luck with bucks the next two weekends with my bow, I'll be using my archery tag to find the next mature doe I encounter. I'm in a Hunter's Choice area and I see lots of does. I think it should be Managed. And really, more people like myself need to speak up. Because that's how the DNR sets bag limits. Its not science. it's the most vocal hunters who determine what the DNR decides. They base their limits on what the most vocal hunters want, not the health of the state's herd or anything related.

Sounds like you just WANT it to be a managed area. I sure as heck hope this is not how the DNR is setting bag limits. That would be a complete joke. If all the DNR has to do is bow down to the wims and wishes of the cry babies to set our bag limits, our deer herd is doomed in many portions of the state. Just because some people want to be able to shoot more deer, does not make it a sound management practice.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Satchmo

[JIvers]

I can't speak for deer numbers up north, but there are too many deer down in 347 where I hunt, and hopefully the DNR lifts the one deer restriction in our area for next year.

I will shoot the first tasty doe I see, and I am more than OK with the other people hunting my ground doing the same.

 

[O.T.C.]

Many city limits around the state will save quite a few does.

[fr0sty]

If you are going to shoot a doe, why pass fawns?  They are the most likely to die as the result of a hard winter. 

[Neighbor_guy]

If you are going to shoot a doe, why pass fawns?  They are the most likely to die as the result of a hard winter. 

and not likely to be bred this year...

[Paradice]

Last call team.  May all of us have a grasp on the health of the herd in our areas and make the right decision this weekend.  Everyone be safe and have a great hunt. 

[BLACKJACK]

And in most of central and northern MN that would need to be 3 does at least 2.5 years of age.  I have yet to see a yearling (1.5 years old) doe with a fawn here.  It doesn't appear most doe fawns get bred this far north.

Can you really tell a 1.5 year old doe from a 2.5 year old doe??

 

I had a fawn below my deer stand last week, then it was joined by another, smaller doe, and I realized the first one was actually the adult doe.

If you are going to shoot a doe, why pass fawns?  They are the most likely to die as the result of a hard winter. 

That may be true in northern MN but not in central or southern MN.

[deerminator]

It is indeed how the DNR sets bag limits, based on what hunters tell them they want. There is no science behind it. It is herd management to some degree but done based on what the most vocal hunters want. Are there too may deer in my area. Probably not. Are there enough for hunters to take two a piece, most likely based on the numbers I see. This year has been the best ever. I've had the opportunity to shoot 30-40 deer so far with my bow and have seen 3 times that many (about 3-1 doe to buck ratio) during my hunts. So my opinion is no less valued that more vocal hunters who may feel the opposite and who are lobbying to get the DNR to set bag limits the way they do.

[ANYFISH2]

Curiosity only deerminator, where do you hunt?

I too have seen many more deer this year in area 214 and 246.  Both of which I wouldn't feel bad shooting ONE doe.  I will not or do not feel bad that I haven't in 214 and can't in 246. One more mild winter and we may be back to a population in my areas where they can't maintain a quality population of deer through CAREFUL use of the managed and hunters choice designations  (246 should never be managed IMHO, because of hunter density).

Here is my opinion, I along with most love having the opportunity to shoot more than one per year. However, my hope is that we/state can manage the population so the peaks are not so high and the valley's not so low.  I feel that has been the ideal result of the push the last couple seasons.  It isn't about taking opportunity away from anyone, it is about creating more opportunity for all over the long term.

Edited November 14, 2015 by ANYFISH2

[smsmith]

^^^Well stated Anyfish

[Neighbor_guy]

Have you really seen 30-40 different deer with your bow, or have you seen the same handful of deer several times each??? Because there is a difference. Some see it one way. Others see it another. 

Last weekend my daughter was of the impression we saw 3 deer. The reality was we saw the same deer 3 times. The real answer for her was we saw one deer. 

I would suspect you are seeing the same deer over and over, just passing on the shots. 

[monstermoose78]

As other have said before Mother Nature rules and all we can do is deal with what she gives us.  If we had 2 or 3 bad winters the deer numbers will be much lower and if we get 2 or 3 mild winters the deer numbers are much higher. 

I agree with deermanitor that I have also seen many more deer this year than in the past few. I hunt in 223, 225, and 227.  I also hunted Camp Ripley where I used a bonus tag on a doe. I did miss a 12 pointer at my old man, because I got excited and shot just over his back. 

My dad spent a week at the cabin near Grand Marais with our normal rifle hunting group. That is a total of 8 guys, because my brother and I could not go.  They seen 8 deer total for the week so far and have sat in the woods from dark to dark. My cousin who only had the first weekend to hunt shot a spike buck and that is the only deer that has been taken, so far. My dad has passed on 2 bucks a 6 and small 8. No other bucks have been seen. They will be coming home this Sunday evening, so they have today and tomorrow morning to hunt yet. 

[smsmith]

It appears at least a few of my neighbors have also decided that not shooting does is a wise thing to do.  So far, I'm aware of about 400 acres where zero does were shot, and only 1, 2.5 year buck was shot.  

Screw you DNR...just because you say its Managed doesn't mean hunters have to fill the tags 

[bigbucks]

I live in Todd County to, have my whole life save basically my 20's, which even then I still hunted here.  There are deer everywhere on every property I hunt.  I know there aren't two Todd County's in MN, so not sure where you're talking about.  If you listen to local radio every morning all they do is read deer collision reports.  One morning they were reading a name of someone I knew & the road I was currently on, as I drove past the dead deer, which did crack me up.

Saturday night hunting at my Dad's I saw zero deer from the most consistent stand on the property, so therefore there are no deer?  My Dad sat in a stand 100 yards from me, I could see him the entire time.  He saw 9, none of which I could see.  My brother was a 1/4 mile away & saw at least 7.  Okay that's 16 deer.  Now some would say, no it's 9 deer your brother saw 7 of the 9 deer.  Well we talk about what we saw & determine if we think they were repeats or not, doesn't everybody?  We know they saw a minimum of 12 different deer based on where they went & where they came from.  He has 100 acres of land, with literally about 2 acres wooded.  Now a lot of those deer came out of small neighboring wood lots, we know cause you can watch them the whole way, but they there.  We didn't see any of the several nice bucks we have on camera there.  By the way a lot of yearling does have fawns around our properties.  I would say at least half.  I have a doe that's had triplets 4 straight years.

I really wish 213 was managed.  I have tons of does & fawns on a small property & several small bucks.  I didn't basically hunt it until right before gun season, because all I would do was educate all of the antlerless deer to my stand locations, when I wasn't going to shoot one anyway.  Party hunting at least allows us to take a couple of deer to control the population without the most avid hunters of our party having to give up our tag & quit for the year.

I'm with whoever it is that said they could have shot 40 deer between bow & gun this year.  My number's somewhere there or a little higher.  I know that I could have shot a couple of small bucks two different times & one nice doe with a small fawn twice.  On one other property I could have shot some of the same 5 fawns a few times.  I would say I had 25 for sure different deer I could have shot & probably a few more.

I have a neighbor that's hit 8 deer with the same car over several years.

[smsmith]

^^^You and I have had this discussion before.  I'm south and east of where you hunt.  Unit 214 is managed for 100% (literally) more deer per sq. mile than is unit 215.  Pretty sure the same is true of 213.  I know several guys north of me about 45 minutes whose seasons sound quite a bit like yours...they're all in 214.  Just because you have great hunting doesn't mean everybody else in the county does.  Todd County is pretty good sized from North to South.