Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[NWKR]

Purple makes a good point. If you hunt on public land and a guy next to you decides to put in a bunch of food plots, and draw all the deer to his area, it can limit the amount of deer you see. And in all reality, how is it different if a guy carries a bag of corn out in the woods or if a guy leaves or plants corn specifically to hunt over? Either way the deer are being intentionally baited.

That's what I love about my food plots, the deer just hang out there every day and I can shoot whatever one I want!!! They never go on neighboring properties!! When people say they see no difference between hunting over a pile of corn and a food source that is there months before and after season I don't think there is anything to be said that can convince you otherwise.

[DaveT]

That's what I love about my food plots, the deer just hang out there every day and I can shoot whatever one I want!!! They never go on neighboring properties!! When people say they see no difference between hunting over a pile of corn and a food source that is there months before and after season I don't think there is anything to be said that can convince you otherwise.

Love that argument as well. You've got a pile of corn 20 yards from your stand that cost $5.00 and took 5 minutes to put out versus a however many acres food plot that the deer can enter and exit from any direction. The food plot cost hundreds to put in and time is measured in days, not minutes. Throw in weather not cooperating and all of your time and money may go for naught. Plus my food plots have food in them 24 hours a day, the deer don't have to be there in the daylight to make sure they get something to eat, but they better hustle to get to that bait pile or there isn't going to be anything left for them.

The people that say there's no difference between the two have obviously never tried food plotting.

[leechlake]

I don't do food plots myself because we hunt woods and I don't want to spend the time, money, and effort into doing it right.

If you are against food plots are you against the DNR putting in crappie cribs to provide structure for fish?

I don't care either way just curious, I'd assume the two are similar in that they "can" draw the prey to a certain location.

[hockeybc69]

So food plots on private land next to state land is an unfair advantage....

What next? I cant hinge cut trees to create cover that is intended to have deer stay on my land too?

You cant hinge cut on state land, so I guess I better not hinge cut on private land either.

[Eric Wettschreck]

That being said, I find it interesting that it is considered such an offense to shshoot a deer eating off a corn pile yet a bow Hunter can set up next to a trail coming out of a corn field and that is called great hunting strategy and a bear Hunter is applauded for shooting a bear eating a barrel full of Twinkies. Then there are the hunters who plant food plots full of yummy vegetation right where they put their stand.

To me it should either be legal to hunt over all food sources including standing corn,which we do, or it should be illegal to hunt over or in range of any food source. Why people think it is ok to pick and choose their morality seems odd.

I've wondered aboot this myself. In the end what you have is a dead deer. Does it really matter if it was shot archery/slug/muzzle loader/over a pile of corn/on top of some smashed up pumpkins/in a hay field/over a food plot?

A dead tagged deer is just that. A dead tagged deer.

[leechlake]

So food plots on private land next to state land is an unfair advantage....

What next? I cant hinge cut trees to create cover that is intended to have deer stay on my land too?

You cant hinge cut on state land, so I guess I better not hinge cut on private land either.

I think there are a lot of distinctions between a bucket of corn and a one acre food plot. If I had 80 acres and put in 5 one acre food plots I would actually be helping the deer herd even if we shot a couple deer on the land or on the plot itself. If I put out corn or any bait in 5 spots I'd just be killing deer on them, providing very little value to the deer herd.

Guys put up plots for Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter feeding of deer. Most plots, at least in non ag areas provide nutrients that are most likely superior to the native foods available for many times of the year. Plots are put up as a hobby, to feed deer, hold deer in areas (if you can really "hold" deer is debatable), and yes to kill deer.

I have three buddies hunting in Kansas right now. Baiting is legal. Timer goes off, the whirly bird feeder shoots out some corn and here come does and fawns for a free lunch when they hear the feeder. Shooting a deer that comes into that whirly bird feeder would be lame to say the least.

[NWKR]

I've wondered aboot this myself. In the end what you have is a dead deer. Does it really matter if it was shot archery/slug/muzzle loader/over a pile of corn/on top of some smashed up pumpkins/in a hay field/over a food plot?

A dead tagged deer is just that. A dead tagged deer.

Or with a spotlight at night, from the road, while trespassing on private land, a buck only tag on an antlerless deer, or with grandmas tag who has never hunted in her life. As long as you put a tag on it , its just a dead tagged deer.

[PurpleFloyd]

I think there are a lot of distinctions between a bucket of corn and a one acre food plot. If I had 80 acres and put in 5 one acre food plots I would actually be helping the deer herd even if we shot a couple deer on the land or on the plot itself. If I put out corn or any bait in 5 spots I'd just be killing deer on them, providing very little value to the deer herd.

Guys put up plots for Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter feeding of deer. Most plots, at least in non ag areas provide nutrients that are most likely superior to the native foods available for many times of the year. Plots are put up as a hobby, to feed deer, hold deer in areas (if you can really "hold" deer is debatable), and yes to kill deer.

I have three buddies hunting in Kansas right now. Baiting is legal. Timer goes off, the whirly bird feeder shoots out some corn and here come does and fawns for a free lunch when they hear the feeder. Shooting a deer that comes into that whirly bird feeder would be lame to say the least.

Nothing was said about value, just morality. You can feed deer corn and other food that falls into the baiting category such as Apple's year around and provide nourishment to them but I am talking strictly morality. Why is it morally acceptable to shoot a deer eating corn off of an ear in a field but not shelled corn on the ground? In both cases they are eating the same thing and the difference is their head position while consuming.

And why is it morally acceptable to shoot a bear feasting away on a mound of jelly donuts but not a deer eating Apple's off a pile? This is a very strange twist of logic to accept one and condemn the other. Same with geese isn't it illegal and considered baiting to shoot them in a freshly picked corn field?

This question is strictly limited to the action of shooting a game animal while it is eating from a food source. What is the moral justification for accepting one and not the other? Personally I believe we should ban all forms. Baiting bears, baiting deer, putting deer stands over food plots etc. That would at least be morally consistent. Food plots could still be planted, corn can still be fed to deer and Twinkies for Yogi. You just can't have a stand in shooting range of it.

[delcecchi]

Deer and Bear are different animals and different species so different hunting methods are allowed. Just like folks aren't allowed to use leg hold traps or snares for deer but are for beaver or fox or coyote.

Folks think it is fine to spear northerns but are aghast at those spearing walleye. Folks think it is fine to net whitefish and ciscoes but b****h about someone doing that to walleye and northern. Meanwhile spearing northerns but not muskies.

There is not rhyme nor reason nor consistency nor rationality in the fish and game laws.

[rkhinrichs]

geez! This year our camp went 3-5!!! ALL BUCKS. the other two guys missed a doe and a really nice ten. We could of went 5-5. In our camp, after you tag out, you are trophy hunting! I saw a total of 8 does and 3 bucks. i shot a goofy 7 pointer!

[smsmith]

This question is strictly limited to the action of shooting a game animal while it is eating from a food source. What is the moral justification for accepting one and not the other? Personally I believe we should ban all forms. Baiting bears, baiting deer, putting deer stands over food plots etc. That would at least be morally consistent. Food plots could still be planted, corn can still be fed to deer and Twinkies for Yogi. You just can't have a stand in shooting range of it.

Yup, lets make it illegal to shoot a deer coming from/going to-eating acorns/mushrooms/wild apples/anything green while we're at it. Excellent solution

[PurpleFloyd]

Yup, lets make it illegal to shoot a deer coming from/going to-eating acorns/mushrooms/wild apples/anything green while we're at it. Excellent solution

Sounds like a good way to save more deer for you and build the herd. Of course it doesn't involve an audit so the odds of you buying in are probably slim.

[PurpleFloyd]

There is not rhyme nor reason nor consistency nor rationality in the fish and game laws.

Yeah, you can say that again.

[smsmith]

I bet you're well liked and popular at the local watering holes

[leech~~]

This question is strictly limited to the action of shooting a game animal while it is eating from a food source. What is the moral justification for accepting one and not the other? Personally I believe we should ban all forms. Baiting bears, baiting deer, putting deer stands over food plots etc. That would at least be morally consistent. Food plots could still be planted, corn can still be fed to deer and Twinkies for Yogi. You just can't have a stand in shooting range of it.

Well, I agree with some of this but I have hunted Bear and will have to say that they are just a whole different game then Deer. They don't herd up, they feed mainly late evening or at night most of the time, don't follow any kind of daily pattern that's why people don't have Bear stands setup along fields other then just for baiting, don't follow trails like Deer other then if they find a food source will hang around for a while and have a trail from bed to food until it's gone and they are near impossible to find or hunt without bait. I think if hunters didn't take some of them out over bait the DNR would still have to take some out that way over time because their numbers would grow without any checks and more would get shot in back yards. And not everyone has the time to find and follow them around like Lynn Rogers for months at a time and get paid for it!

[PurpleFloyd]

I bet you're well liked and popular at the local watering holes

Popular enough except with those who try to blow smoke up peoples wazoos with hidden personal agendas. With them not so much.

[PurpleFloyd]

Well, I agree with some of this but I have hunted Bear and will have to say that they are just a whole different game then Deer. They don't herd up, they feed mainly late evening or at night most of the time, don't follow any kind of daily pattern that's why people don't have Bear stands setup along fields other then just for baiting, don't follow trails like Deer other then if they find a food source will hang around for a while and have a trail from bed to food until it's gone and they are near impossible to find or hunt without bait. I think if hunters didn't take some of them out over bait the DNR would still have to take some out that way over time because their numbers would grow without any checks and more would get shot in back yards. And not everyone has the time to find and follow them around like Lynn Rogers for months at a time and get paid for it!

lol.

I am not advocating for either or. I don't bait deer and don't bear hunt. I don't begrudge those who do if that what it takes for them to harvest a deer. In Wisconsin where I used to reside they use dogs to run the bears which is a whole other morality issue.In reference to your post though, there are areas in the state, especially in the southern ag zone, where deer don't herd during the season, don't follow set trails, and where if you have a 15-40 acre section that you may never see a single deer walk within range either. Not because they aren't there, but because there are just places they don't travel frequently. using the same reasoning that bear baiting is justified you could form a very similar argument for deer. In the land we hunt deer don't move much during the day. Tradition has led us to do drives in order to get them moving. Obviously to those who have deer that run past their stands in the woods every day it may not seem necessary either and lots of them want to stop us from hunting that way.

[shortfatguy]

I don't do food plots myself because we hunt woods and I don't want to spend the time, money, and effort into doing it right.

If you are against food plots are you against the DNR putting in crappie cribs to provide structure for fish?

I don't care either way just curious, I'd assume the two are similar in that they "can" draw the prey to a certain location.

If the cribs were only able to be used by certain people you can dam well bet I would be against them. And I dont think that deer NEVER leave a food plot, but if it didnt attract them, why would anyone plant them? You cant deny it gives you an advantage to hunt over a food source. And I have never hunted over bait, but I have fed deer before and hung cameras. A little bit of food can bring in a lot of deer.

[shortfatguy]

So food plots on private land next to state land is an unfair advantage....

What next? I cant hinge cut trees to create cover that is intended to have deer stay on my land too?

You cant hinge cut on state land, so I guess I better not hinge cut on private land either.

Cutting trees creates permanent damage to the land and also removes timber that could be sold. Putting out feed does neither. In fact, this past winter feed was handed out for free in my area. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[smsmith]

Cutting trees creates permanent damage to the land and also removes timber that could be sold. Putting out feed does neither. In fact, this past winter feed was handed out for free in my area. You are comparing apples to oranges.

What? Hinge cutting junk trees like ironwood, box elder, soft maple, elm, ash, etc. does nothing except create browse for deer and cover for a multitude of species. As far as removing timber that could be sold...good luck. I tried for several years to find a logger interested in harvesting any of my timber...all I could find was one guy who'd take the mature aspen. There are very limited (if any) markets for timber in central MN.

Feed for free? Maybe in NE MN...nowhere else. Those of us interested in helping the deer in central MN via feeding did so out of our own pockets...

[shortfatguy]

Purple,

The difference is money. The guys with more money can afford a big chunk of land, equipment to put in and maintain food plots and so on. The younger people who are just starting out cant usually do that. Unless their family gives them that option. So basically, if you are fortunate enough to have money for land and food plots, or if you are a farmer, you can hunt over huge amounts of bait. If you are a college kid with some apples you picked up in a yard in town, you are a no good baiting criminal.

And for the record, I do not, have never baited deer. I am fortunate enough to have a place to put in food plots etc, But I haven't always had that option.

[skee0025]

Food plots vs. baiting are different sides of the same coin. Both are put in place with the same goal, to draw deer to a specific location in order to shoot them. One can argue the merits of long term vs. short benefits but in the end it comes down to this. If they outlawed hunting over food plots how many do you think would still be planted? Very few would in my opinion, food plots are baiting by another name.

[Bureaucrat]

There is an overwhelming amount of silly in this thread all of a sudden. Maybe this should be moved to the silly town forum.

*Permanent destruction by cutting trees? Where do you start to respond to that? There is no permanent in nature. Disturbance is a habitat improvement tool.

*Food plots are not easy. Food plotters are out there in the spring and summer battling ticks, heat, mosquitoes, and weeds. It takes time and money. It's not as simple as "throw and grow" like the bags may say. Food plotters provide far more to the habitat than they'll ever take out. The number of people with enough private land to claim their own contained ecosystem isn't even measurable. Guys with 40's and 80's that work hard, grow deer that their neighbors have the freedom to whack at will with no regard to the greater good of the population. I feel bad for those trying to help the herd in their area that are surrounded by an entitled bunch that take and take, and put nothing back.

*Who on earth would look down on someone for improving the cover, diversity, and natural forage on their land? Would it be better to wipe out the white oaks on every other property in the neighborhood because yours or the state land next door doesn't have any? Shall we burn or graze to the dirt the WMAs that have pheasants on them because the dairy farmer next door can't hold any in his cattle pasture?

*I don't know how to respond to the rest. This is plain crazy talk. I suppose the desired solution is a litany of bans and rescinded rights of private property. Well that's already here. It's called public land. An oasis of untouched, unimproved, uncared for mass of senescent woods, with no stakeholders.

[Bureaucrat]

Food plots vs. baiting are different sides of the same coin. Both are put in place with the same goal, to draw deer to a specific location in order to shoot them. One can argue the merits of long term vs. short benefits but in the end it comes down to this. If they outlawed hunting over food plots how many do you think would still be planted? Very few would in my opinion, food plots are baiting by another name.

Fill in the water holes and wetlands on private property too, because animals can be targeted when getting a drink. Slash and burn the spruce, cedars, and cattails. Deer can be targeted where they sleep as well.

Maybe best case is to bulldoze, burn and drain it all and just grow corn. Then nobody will have anything and we'll all be miserably equal.

[skee0025]

.

Fill in the water holes and wetlands on private property too, because animals can be targeted when getting a drink. Slash and burn the spruce, cedars, and cattails. Deer can be targeted where they sleep as well.

Maybe best case is to bulldoze, burn and drain it all and just grow corn. Then nobody will have anything and we'll all be miserably equal.

Looks like I touched a nerve since you quoted me. I take it that you spend time and money planting food plots. A simple question, if you were not allowed to hunt over a food plot would you spend the time and money to plant one? I don't bait, even though it's legal where I hunt and don't have a problem with people that do, or that hunt food plots. Simply an academic question.