Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[PurpleFloyd]

I was simply answering the P.F. I get it guys, you're all happy with the MN DNR and just want to let them do what they do. Fine. Enjoy the results.

So you are only happy with the DNR if the state is spending more money governing them? Because that seems to be the primary difference between Wi and Mn. In the end they are both following the same plan of reducing their herds from the numbers they had 10 years ago.Throw Iowa into that mix as well.

[LightningBG]

I hate the idea within the same zone,if you own land you get a pile of more doe permits.

The idea seems a little suspect until you think about it a little more.

First of all, it doesn't necessarily mean their are more permits for the private land, just separate permits. They could have 100 private permits and 300 public permits, with the goal being that 400 aren't taken on public land. The alternative could be just issuing 300 knowing that the public land could only sustain 300 and if they issued 400, they wouldn't know where they were going.

2nd, the populations on public and private land could be very different. There could be blocks of private land that the deer are thick as thieves and public land where the population is very low. or vice versa.

3rd, at least where we hunt, you already get a buck and doe tag right off the bat. This is strictly bonus tags. We hunt private land and I was the only one who bought a bonus tag. Counting 1 guy that didn't even hunt, we had... 15 tags. We filled 5 of them. We were happy with that number and called it a season. Just cause tags are available doesn't mean their bought and just because they are bought doesn't mean they are filled.

[PurpleFloyd]

How would the DNR enforce whether deer were taken on public or private land when they border each other? It would seem that those who are against cross tagging and party hunting would be equally upset with the potential for dishonest people abusing the rules.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

The very same way they enforce management zones adjacent to lotto/HC zones.... Not very well. Keeps the honest honest. No way to enforce lawbreakers any way you slice it!

[SmellEsox]

The difference between MN and WI and IA is that WI and IA probably needed herd reduction. MN never did or did very little. Our densities are far lower than theirs in most parts of the state. Another difference is that our DNR would have continued on their merry way of reducing the herd this year if not for MDDI and MDHA complaints and a directive from the Commissioner. IA and WI DNRs took the lead in reducing their harvest.

[PurpleFloyd]

Yeah, ok.

[O.T.C.]

Isn't this a Midwest thing going on with disease, spring weather, etc. we're all lower than the hope deer numbers wise aren't we, Canada included, Montana reports I've gotten also Wisc. etc. I will thank our DNR for this which will stir some people up maybe, not trying to, but I'm very thankful for the chance at a buck every season. My Fargo friend hasn't drawn a buck tag in ND in quite some time so there he sits paying off hunting ground he can't even really hunt, he stinks with a bow,he admits wounding a deer to him is not worth it, but pays plenty of tax dollars to let his land stay idle. What would we do, fence our properties and post them tight and wait for the year we draw ? I am thankful for the chance each year, if people wouldn't poach, shoot late/early, borrow tags, etc we'd have more bucks around for the all of us, I don't think many people realize how many bucks/deer are taken illegally hush hush each year, we'd all have better hunting but deer hunting changes a lot of people, think of the thousands baiting a cold rifle season like this year, read how many deer were seized because of this tactic in cuffs and collars and the hundreds or thousands idk that were never caught, stealing deer away from the rest of us,toss in timberwolves thatdidn't exist in many counties until recently, I'd expect a poor deer harvest also, but it will get better, need the does to have fawn(s)that survive the predators, the weather, and us.

[TomHuynh]

Isn't this a Midwest thing going on with disease, spring weather, etc. we're all lower than the hope deer numbers wise aren't we, Canada included, Montana reports I've gotten also Wisc. etc. I will thank our DNR for this which will stir some people up maybe, not trying to, but I'm very thankful for the chance at a buck every season. My Fargo friend hasn't drawn a buck tag in ND in quite some time so there he sits paying off hunting ground he can't even really hunt, he stinks with a bow,he admits wounding a deer to him is not worth it, but pays plenty of tax dollars to let his land stay idle. What would we do, fence our properties and post them tight and wait for the year we draw ? I am thankful for the chance each year, if people wouldn't poach, shoot late/early, borrow tags, etc we'd have more bucks around for the all of us, I don't think many people realize how many bucks/deer are taken illegally hush hush each year, we'd all have better hunting but deer hunting changes a lot of people, think of the thousands baiting a cold rifle season like this year, read how many deer were seized because of this tactic in cuffs and collars and the hundreds or thousands idk that were never caught, stealing deer away from the rest of us,toss in timberwolves thatdidn't exist in many counties until recently, I'd expect a poor deer harvest also, but it will get better, need the does to have fawn(s)that survive the predators, the weather, and us.

Well put!

[candiru]

Agree on the baiting. I stopped at the FF gas station in Alexandria opening weekend. There were 50lb bags of corn stacked on pallets there. I don't think it was going to squirrel feeding or going to Wisconsin from there.

[PurpleFloyd]

Baiting? Lots of people feed that corn to deer in the winter. Last year more people should have.

[SmellEsox]

Isn't this a Midwest thing going on with disease, spring weather, etc. we're all lower than the hope deer numbers wise aren't we, Canada included, Montana reports I've gotten also Wisc. etc. I will thank our DNR for this which will stir some people up maybe, not trying to, but I'm very thankful for the chance at a buck every season. My Fargo friend hasn't drawn a buck tag in ND in quite some time so there he sits paying off hunting ground he can't even really hunt, he stinks with a bow,he admits wounding a deer to him is not worth it, but pays plenty of tax dollars to let his land stay idle. What would we do, fence our properties and post them tight and wait for the year we draw ? I am thankful for the chance each year, if people wouldn't poach, shoot late/early, borrow tags, etc we'd have more bucks around for the all of us, I don't think many people realize how many bucks/deer are taken illegally hush hush each year, we'd all have better hunting but deer hunting changes a lot of people, think of the thousands baiting a cold rifle season like this year, read how many deer were seized because of this tactic in cuffs and collars and the hundreds or thousands idk that were never caught, stealing deer away from the rest of us,toss in timberwolves thatdidn't exist in many counties until recently, I'd expect a poor deer harvest also, but it will get better, need the does to have fawn(s)that survive the predators, the weather, and us.

Agree. I will add though that many Midwest states also have been hammering the dump out of does. We did it here far past what was necessary. Don't know how much this played in the decline in other states, but when you read other national forums, there are complaints about antlerless harvest in just about every single Midwest state from IA to OH and PA. It's not just the weather and disease and predation. In most states the biggest source of mortality is hunting.

[B. Amish]

Wisconsin harvest is lowest in 30 years.

[creepworm]

#auditwisconsindnragain

[NWKR]

Wisconsin releases registration information after opening weekend and continues to release throughout the season:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/20149day.pdf

MN DNR releases statewide or regional data and we won't hear about the actual harvest by permit area until the end of January or even February.

Wisconsin has a plethora of deer management information on their webpage:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/deermanagement.html

And a description of their deer management program, nothing like that in MN.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/documents/Deerbook.pdf

A DMAP program too:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/DMAP.html

Look at the information available for each deer management unit:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/dmu.html

What are MN's deer density goals? Can't find that anywhere, but easy to fine them in WI:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/maps.html

In Sept 2014 WI reviewed all counties for deer density goals. It takes MN 4 years to do that.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/cdac.html

MN DNR has hardly anything on the webpage they call deer management:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/deer/mgmt.html

There are some maps and stats here. Never mind that the density estimates for a majority of the forest zone permit areas are off by 30%+ on the maps listed.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/deer/maps_stats_archive.html

The information available about deer management seems like a pretty good reflection of how deer are valued in each state.

[NWKR]

Baiting? Lots of people feed that corn to deer in the winter. Last year more people should have.

Yeah I always figured the guys that are buying corn at Wal-Mart, Runnings, Fleet Farm, etc. during hunting seasons are stocking up for the winter

[O.T.C.]

And the new camouflaged corn......? Of course purple many feed deer like many of my relatives all winter/spring long until green, we leave standing corn, but deer don't need to be fed yet, anyone seeing any sick or deprived deer yet ? with mild weather coming ? save your money and start feeding when they need it most and go on until green up, in the spring which has been winter the past 2 and we generally don't until Jan 1st on when all archery,muzzy, etc. is done, that's when corn sales should go through the roof, not November 1st-7th. Baiting is a lack of respect for the deer and fellow outdoorsman, period in MN. If I baited I guarantee my tag would be on a large buck by now, ask Frosty on that 1, instead I'm in day 22 of rifle/ now muzzy in my quest to tag a nice buck, main thing killing my hunts is I don't have a food source and I'm not going to bring the food to them as I'm not putting antlers on my wall where I had to cheat to get him and I'm not looking to be sportsman of the year 2014, I just respect deer a lot and will beat em at their own game when I do. Growing up dairy farming gives you that you fight through each day to get the job done and that's the hope in deer hunting each time out. Don't cheat so you can fully enjoy and appreciate what you harvested. These people baiting purple for the purpose of shooting them stop once they stop "hunting" can't even call it that, think that's putting inches of fat on their bodies no it's not. It's holding deer on or near their spots and then it abruptly comes to an end and the deer now might not be where they need to be for winter and thermal cover. Guarantee our deer harvest would be higher if thousands weren't baiting in our state over the past several years where it's just exploded. Another negative is wolves find these bait sites and make hamburger out of the deer that get concentrated into an area, it's why we winter feed where we do to keep wolves away the best we can. It's time guys to add to that low harvest, T minus 27 days and they're safe from us once again.

[DaveT]

Deer populations are definitely facing a predator more efficient than humans, wolves, or coyotes. That predator is politicians and DNRs that are deciding to wipe them out.

One thing I've learned about politics is to follow the money. There are 2 organizations that have the ability to buy off DNRs and politicians. Ag and Insurance.

It's happening almost everywhere. I've seen articles about Iowa's DNR being hamstrung by the governor, they want to let up on the does and the governor (who is in the pocket of Ag) won't let them. There is definitely something sinister going on behind the scenes and anybody who believes differently hasn't been paying attention to how politics and big business work in this country.

Get used to low deer numbers, I don't expect anything to change but will continue to support anything that promotes raising deer populations.

[O.T.C.]

You are correct DaveT, the people calling the shots are using their occupation however they want to steer things in the direction that suits them best. I would say deer numbers where I'm at are pretty high actually, but go 2 miles away and you can't find a track. Pockets of good numbers and vacant pockets, too many vacant pockets. I almost forgot, road kill, I can't say I noticed any road kill in my 125 mile journey weekly through Ottertail, Wadena, Todd, Morrison,Mille Lacs,Kanabec and Isanti counties this fall, not that those are good counties for deer lol, never even thought about it, maybe saw a few spots that maybe there was 1 hit, that does speak loudly, this mild up is huge for an intervention into winter.

[fr0sty]

The Third Island Monster! I'll be taking my chance to connect this weekend. Him or one of his sons would do just fine...

. If I baited I guarantee my tag would be on a large buck by now, ask Frosty on that 1

[PurpleFloyd]

Deer populations are definitely facing a predator more efficient than humans, wolves, or coyotes. That predator is politicians and DNRs that are deciding to wipe them out.

One thing I've learned about politics is to follow the money. There are 2 organizations that have the ability to buy off DNRs and politicians. Ag and Insurance.

It's happening almost everywhere. I've seen articles about Iowa's DNR being hamstrung by the governor, they want to let up on the does and the governor (who is in the pocket of Ag) won't let them. There is definitely something sinister going on behind the scenes and anybody who believes differently hasn't been paying attention to how politics and big business work in this country.

Get used to low deer numbers, I don't expect anything to change but will continue to support anything that promotes raising deer populations.

Good grief.

I am sure that trail cams,improved optics and ammo, and the QDMA preaching for years to fill the freezer with does had nothing to do with it.

So do we need to audit the whole Midwest?

[smsmith]

Good grief.

I am sure that trail cams,improved optics and ammo, and the QDMA preaching for years to fill the freezer with does had nothing to do with it.

So do we need to audit the whole Midwest?

Nah...just let the special interests with loads of $$$ make the decisions for those of us with less $$$...and therefore less influence.

[PurpleFloyd]

And the new camouflaged corn......? Of course purple many feed deer like many of my relatives all winter/spring long until green, we leave standing corn, but deer don't need to be fed yet, anyone seeing any sick or deprived deer yet ? with mild weather coming ? save your money and start feeding when they need it most and go on until green up, in the spring which has been winter the past 2 and we generally don't until Jan 1st on when all archery,muzzy, etc. is done, that's when corn sales should go through the roof, not November 1st-7th. Baiting is a lack of respect for the deer and fellow outdoorsman, period in MN. If I baited I guarantee my tag would be on a large buck by now, ask Frosty on that 1, instead I'm in day 22 of rifle/ now muzzy in my quest to tag a nice buck, main thing killing my hunts is I don't have a food source and I'm not going to bring the food to them as I'm not putting antlers on my wall where I had to cheat to get him and I'm not looking to be sportsman of the year 2014, I just respect deer a lot and will beat em at their own game when I do. Growing up dairy farming gives you that you fight through each day to get the job done and that's the hope in deer hunting each time out. Don't cheat so you can fully enjoy and appreciate what you harvested. These people baiting purple for the purpose of shooting them stop once they stop "hunting" can't even call it that, think that's putting inches of fat on their bodies no it's not. It's holding deer on or near their spots and then it abruptly comes to an end and the deer now might not be where they need to be for winter and thermal cover. Guarantee our deer harvest would be higher if thousands weren't baiting in our state over the past several years where it's just exploded. Another negative is wolves find these bait sites and make hamburger out of the deer that get concentrated into an area, it's why we winter feed where we do to keep wolves away the best we can. It's time guys to add to that low harvest, T minus 27 days and they're safe from us once again.

You are talking about 2 separate things- baiting and feeding.

As far as feeding I will have to disagree with you. If you are going to feed deer this is absolutely the time to start. Feeding now allows them to build their fat reserves, acclimate to the feed and for does it gives them added nutrients which helps the dawns develop and be born as strong as possible.

If you wait to feed the deer until they are stressed and not finding food you can actually kill them by introducing corn into their diet. Their stomachs at that point are not able to properly digest the corn and it can lead to death. This was one of the things the DNR cautioned people about last year when the conservation groups started to call out for massive feeding campaigns. You can find that info by doing a Google search.

Now, as to baiting- it's not something I do or promote. I also would not recommend it because I know that the DNR specifically looks for corn piles by deer stands while they are flying and that the piles are easy for them to spot and they will cite anyone they catch doing it.

That being said, I find it interesting that it is considered such an offense to shshoot a deer eating off a corn pile yet a bow Hunter can set up next to a trail coming out of a corn field and that is called great hunting strategy and a bear Hunter is applauded for shooting a bear eating a barrel full of Twinkies. Then there are the hunters who plant food plots full of yummy vegetation right where they put their stand.

To me it should either be legal to hunt over all food sources including standing corn,which we do, or it should be illegal to hunt over or in range of any food source. Why people think it is ok to pick and choose their morality seems odd.

[delcecchi]

Finally we agree on something. +1

[shortfatguy]

Purple makes a good point. If you hunt on public land and a guy next to you decides to put in a bunch of food plots, and draw all the deer to his area, it can limit the amount of deer you see. And in all reality, how is it different if a guy carries a bag of corn out in the woods or if a guy leaves or plants corn specifically to hunt over? Either way the deer are being intentionally baited.

[creepworm]

So do we need to audit the whole Midwest?

Yes, everything should be audited every year. The results of the famed Wisconsin DNR audit were outstanding. Worst harvest in 30 years, what a dream result from the perfect management implemented after the audit.