Legal question about blocking driveways

[bullzeyez61]

So my friend has been having this problem with this guy on his regular snowmobiling route. He is getting extremely [PoorWordUsage] that he is crossing his driveway and he isn't damaging any of his property or anything like that. It started out with him yelling and flicking him off when he crosses and has progressed into more harrasment and the guy has been getting into his car and following him in the ditch for miles and parking in his way at road crossing trying to block him but he just goes around him and goes on with his business. He stoped to talk to him once when he blocked him with his car and he just started yelling and swearing at him so he just continued on with his trip and ignored him. Now he is driving 2x4s into the snow and putting rocks there to block his driveway along with chasing him down. The next time it happens he plans on calling the cops and talking with them about the harrasment that's going on. My question is is it illegal to put items in the ditch purposely to block snowmobilers?

[smnduck]

no

statute 160.2715

[bullzeyez61]

I assume your talking about number 14. So a driveway approach is considered a section of the highway? And is illegal to go around, destroy, or tamper with the erected object to block traffic?

[bullzeyez61]

And it's on a county road not on a highway if that makes a diffrence. I'm just looking for clarification to give back to my friend

[bullzeyez61]

#3 says it is illegal to erect a fence on the truck of the right away witch his is doing.

[LoonASea]

Your friend needs to put it on a trailer rather then using "his regular snowmobile route" to get where the trail system is ,,,,Have your friend call the PD to get clarification before the issue escalates

[Surface Tension]

Perfectly legal to ride the sled in the ROW. Call the sheriff or County Garage. You can't barricade the ROW.

[Eric Wettschreck]

You may want to tell your friend to take a deep breath and remove the barricades he's putting up or he may get into a big heap o trouble. Especially if someone hits said barricade and damages the sled and/or gets hurt.

[pushbutton]

Suppose the answer to this question is exactly where in the ditch he is driving and crossing the driveway. On monday call the county and find out where the public right of way on this particular road is. Most often they are something like 66 ft wide….about 33 ft from the center line. Some can be larger though. Just gotta call…….

[bullzeyez61]

Thanks for the statue and info. Next time he sees him he is going to bring up the statue and show him and tell him to remove it or he will contact the pd and report it and the harrasment

[pikechaser]

I see your LOC says Elk River. Would this be happening in Otsego?? Ive seen someone doing this exact thing with 2x4's in Otsego. I Live closeby & pretty much am trailering mine now. The Wonderful folks in city hall passed an ordinance that states snowmobiles are sposed to stay on the tar shoulder on streets where there is a cement curb. Also don't let local law enforcement see you anywhere near their precious tar walking path's, or you will get your butt chewed. If your Buddy is in Otsego I would recommend he reviews the cities ordinance's for snowmobiles.

[CANOPY SAM]

I have no idea about the law behind said situation, but it sounds a little like a bomb waiting to go off. As others have said, it might be best to find another route rather then even attempting to reconcile with this guy.

I mean honestly, I can see both sides of the fence on this one. Your friend only wants to go from point A to point B, and crossing this guy's approach is part of that route. However, the guy with the approach is obviously really heated up about anyone doing this on "his" land! Even if you do get the authorities involved, I highly doubt this guy is just going to bend over and take it.

There are a lot of people out there that you just can't reason with, and forcing the issue could make the problem exponentially worse. I'd really recommend just crossing the road and traveling on the other side, if that's an option?

[Walleyehooker]

First I would give the police a call and try to clear things up before this gets way out of hand. It is also very rare that your property runs up to the roadway even though a lot of people think it does just because you have a driveway or lawn there. Typically there is an easement on both sides of the road and blocking it off or putting up hazards can come back to bite you. I had a guy that lived up from me put some large boulders where people ran sleds and after I told him to check out his liabilities of placing them there they were removed shortly after. Some people don't like sleds running across the end of their driveway and their carbides putting groves in it but in most cases there isn't much you can do about it if it is legal to run a sled there. Ive seen some people put a rubber mat down where sleds cross to protect their driveway.

[CaptainMusky]

Though I have been in the same situation as your friend dealing with a crabby land owner, I would strongly urge he tread very lightly (no pun intended) with this character since it is obvious he has already escalated his actions.

People are unpredictable and who knows what the ceiling is that this j wad is going to do next? What would happen if you had kids in tow and he came barelling out of his driveway chasing the first sledder?

[BoxMN]

I am not sure what the landowners get all upset for as long as the sleds aren't running right up by his house... but with that said, there are plenty of areas that are steep or have mailboxes etc. that we sledders need to avoid, so I a not sure why your buddy wouldn't just roll out onto the road at the end of this guys driveway... I do that on a few driveways on the way in the ditch to my closest trail, and is pretty easy to do. Just look for cars as you turn out, and in about 60 feet you are back into the ditch.

[aanderud]

I a not sure why your buddy wouldn't just roll out onto the road at the end of this guys driveway... I do that on a few driveways on the way in the ditch to my closest trail, and is pretty easy to do. Just look for cars as you turn out, and in about 60 feet you are back into the ditch.

Technically, it's illegal to drive on the shoulder of the road or the inside (i.e. the road-side) slope of the ditch right-of-way. The bottom of the ditch and the outside slope are legal.

Regs here: http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/snowmobile/snowmobileregs.pdf

Screen shot of page 15:

[BoxMN]

Aanderud, yep, I see that. But you even see groomers on trails in the ditch that slide up to the roadway in areas. Like where it is too steep to even dare go to the outside slope. Not all ditches are perfect for sledding, of course. That diagram that is in the booklet is another perfect example of the regs using only ideal situations, and many users (me included) not knowing what exactly to do. For example, some landowners have their garbage can by their driveways. I chose to go around them, on the "roadside", rather than get out and move them, or crash through them like some folks on sleds obviously do, or drive up into their yards. Oh well, give me a ticket

If you drive highway 6, from Garrison on north can see these type areas. But I am not advocating breaking the law for others

[Surface Tension]

Your allowed onto the shoulder to get around obstacles. Till this guy is informed by law enforcement that is probably the best thing to do.

There are a lot of of ditch bangers that aren't to warm on the idea of trailing because one guy is illegally block off the ROW. Besides, while we have a pretty good network of trails many of them would be fragmented with use of the ROW.

[Tom7227]

Suppose the answer to this question is exactly where in the ditch he is driving and crossing the driveway. On monday call the county and find out where the public right of way on this particular road is. Most often they are something like 66 ft wide….about 33 ft from the center line. Some can be larger though. Just gotta call…….

The centerline isn't necessarily the middle of the easement. For instance the easement is 66 feet wide on the street my house is on. I live on the inside of a curve and found out that the road actually is built on the outside edge of the easement. So a huge portion of what I think is my front yard actually has the easement on it. At one point there was a proposal to put a sewer lift station on that land, a nice addition to the view.

I don't ride and so I am far from an expert in this area. But my years as a prosecutor lead me to think that the advice concerning avoidance of this property is the wise advice. I also would be reluctant to act solely on the information given by local law enforcement. First you never know if that person really knows what they're talking about (often the don't) but most importantly the advice isn't binding.

After reading this thread it seems to me that most here are regular snowmobile users and 'side' with the idea that the landowner is wrong. Well maybe he is, and he certainly is foolish for chasing down the rider as reported. On the other hand consider how you would feel if your landscaping and driveway were damaged by numerous sleds going over the area. If I recall I believe Washington County passed an ordinance on the issue given the damage done to ROW. Perhaps such an ordinance applies in the area mentioned in this thread.

[Macgyver55]

On the other hand consider how you would feel if your landscaping and driveway were damaged by numerous sleds going over the area.

I agree with avoiding it until he can find out if it is indeed right of way or not. But if the land owner knows it is not ROW property wouldn't a simple "NO Trespassing" sign be a more proper first step than a chase and confrontation? Beyond that, if it is indeed ROW the man has no business doing landscaping or placing hazards on property that is not his. In addition if it turns out that it is ROW, and he doesn't want snowmobiles there shouldn't his beef be with the city, state or county (that permits it) and not the individual rider that is within his rights to be there?

[311Hemi]

Is the driveway paved or concrete? If so and he has studs, could there any repercussion from damage to the driveway?

(11) deface, mar, damage, or tamper with any structure, work, material, equipment, tools, signs, markers, signals, paving, guardrails, drains, or any other highway appurtenance on or along any highway;

I don't drive my sled on my driveway....and would probably be upset if someone did with studs and started ruining the surface.

I also would consider putting up a small fence on each side of the driveway to force people to go around the culvert. Anyone ever hit one of those with a sled. It's not pretty!

Anyways, I haven't had to worry about any of the above yet and don't plan on having too. I will ride around the driveways in the neighborhood vs over.

[Polarbear56560]

I have been a snowmobiler for 40 years. Started riding at 5, driving at 8, and bought my first sled at 15. I read all the other posts and at this point I guess I have to ask, what is the other side of the story? Let me explain why I ask.

I live outside the city limits. On my side of the township road (west) clusters of houses broken up by small areas of field. On the east side is all open, flat farm land.

About 99% of snowmobile traffic drives on the east side of the road. But a couple, feel the need to cut over to the west side obviously just to jump the driveways of the last three house, which is evident from the pile of snow caused by their sudden track accelleration just before each driveway. And each time they do, it scars my concrete driveway and batters my retaining wall.

So, being on both sides of this kind of situation,the idea that a vast majority of people when upset will do nothing at all, let alone something extreme (like erect a barrier), and that most people only relay information favorable to their side of a given story, is what makes me ask.

To answer your original question: It depends. It is illegal to erect a fence in the Right of Way of a public roadway in MN. If he lines his driveway with large rocks, may not qualify as a fence. Putting up 2x4s, kinda grey but someone could make a case that they qualify as a fence. All really depends on the LEO making the report and the county/city attorney.

Happy Trails

[user101]

It sounds like you're talking about the snowmobiles obstructing the driveway of a homeowner because they're illegally dragging snow across roads, so they want to go after you because you're choosing to obstruct their driveway which is NOT!!! on a DNR-approved trail. It clearly says that "(4) erect or reconstruct driveway headwalls in or on the right-of-way of a highway or road, except as may be allowed by permit from the road authority imposing reasonable regulations as are necessary to prevent interference with the construction, maintenance, and safe use of the highway or road and its appurtenances;". With the moving of snow by the person, it's a reconstruction of a temporary headwall (of snow) that's approved by driveway regulations that were approved when putting in the driveway was approved.

 

I personally live in such a situation where the snow being moved makes getting in and out of the driveway very unsafe because you need to dart out into traffic and pull over to the shoulder in order to not get stuck, or have an accident.