Wisc. Crossbow 2014

[Musky Buck]

I know we've been down this path before but sounds like reality in Wisc. Thoughts ? I'm on the side of the deer when it comes to baiting,scopes on muzzy's, length of seasons in the way modern era, etc with low deer densities in so many places. I watched a crossbow hunt on antelope and deer last Saturday and saw 2 easy perfectly made 80 yards shots with it. I guess the way I see it is these things are going to advance even further and I almost = a crossbow with a muzzleloader. You get 1 shot and they are extremely accurate, they even had a crossbow like rest the guy put it on from his ground blind, all he did was take a peek through the scope and touched the trigger, the arrows were so fast the deer were hit long before a flinch from the deer and do we really want to arm guys with a crossbow and a 102 day season ? I'd have less problem if it were meant for guys like 60+ in age that using a compound becomes much tougher each year thereafter. Is Minnesota going to watch how it plays out in Wisc. because it will be on the table at some point again here. To a bowhunter does it make you excited that you could double your range or not ? Does a persons compound collect dust or get used for maybe turkeys and target shooting ? IDK. Do the Wisc. archers get to use a scope on the crossbow or is that simply the way they come ? Lots of questions about it, I was very surprised Scott Walker signed that he must have family that wants to use 1 over a compound or who advised him that would make for an even better archery hunt ? Time to hear from the real archery hunters.

[Jameson]

It will be interesting to see how things play out in Wisconsin. It is my understanding that the crossbows got their own season that right now runs the same as normal archery season. If the crossbowers start being too successful their season could be shortened and the regular archery season could stay the same as it is now. It sounds like most folks that hunt both archery and crossbows prefer to hunt with their archery equipment. So, it probably won't be much of an issue, especially after the newness wears off after a couple of years.

[HNTNBUX]

Saying a crossbow is archery is like comparing my peep sighted muzzle loader to my 7mm Rem Mag.

I think it will be here soon but I am not looking forward to it.

[mwal]

I used to shoot Traditional Archery equipment recurve off the shelf no sights did use aluminum arrows with feather fletching. Before the archers go all crazy remember Compound bows are the modern weapon here. They are an invention of the 1970's they made it very easy for the beginner to shoot a hunting draw weight bow accurately with very little practice. The let off draw weight allowed you to hold the bow at full draw for longer periods of time first using your fingers with traditional glove or a 3 finger tab with a plastic spacer to prevent finger pinch due to short limb length. Then Compound progressed faster and faster requiring mechanical releases as fingers cannot precisely repeat the release need for these complicated temperamental systems. Compound user used sight pins that once dialed in are very accurate. The modern Compound is very far away from Traditional archery weapon. You had to spend a great deal of time shooting recurves and longbows to build up muscle strength to be able to handle hunting draw weight and develop instinctive accuracy. Not everyone could do it. Some due to time it takes to practice some due to the lake of physical ability to instinctively shoot. Its the same as being an accurate pitcher or quarterback not everyone can do it. Compounds made Archery do able for everybody. Now the archery crowd which is the Compound people are saying the crossbow is wrong as it takes no skill etc. Looking at it from the perspective of true archery equipment Longbow, Recurve and Crossbow which are all thousands of years old compared to the modern Compound which is not quite 50 years old give or take a few years. Compound bows are the Modern weapon they made Archery hunting doable to the masses by making it easy comparatively to the Stick Bows. Am I putting down Compound Certainly not. I plan on purchasing one as I can no longer shoot my Recurve at my age effectively. We need to stop this in fighting amongst our hunting sports of my way is better than yours. Whether you like it or not Traditional Archery weapons are LongBow,Recurve and Crossbow and have been for over a thousand years. Lets all hunt with our legal weapon of choice and fight the Anti's as one. And introduce somebody new to shooting and hunting whatever weapon you use.

Mwal

[Down2Earth]

Very nicely put Mwal.

[DonBo]

I am in absolute agreement with mwal, EXCEPT for using xbows during the archery season. The simple fact alone of not having to draw it while game is super close (for me anyway) should exclude it from the archery season. I believe it is much closer to a ML and should be added to that season.

I know, seperate season, running at the same time as archery. bla, bla, bla..... It ain't archery, keep it seperate.

[HNTNBUX]

I don't think they had scopes, compound crossbows, rifle like triggers or expandable heads 1000 years ago so I don't see the comparison.

Hunting with a crossbow is likely fine but should not be "archery" season.

[fivebucks]

As a crossbow hunter (with permit) I can safely say that my distance has not increased once I started using an xbow. My xbow bolts come off at 325 fps and I still will not take a shot over 35 yards, just like I used to do with my compound bow. There are people who can shoot compounds 60-70+ yards so I see no difference in distance with a crossbow vs. compound. As a guess I would bet 75% of both compound users and crossbow users do not shoot at animals over 35 yards. The only real difference I see between crossbow hunting and compound bow hunting is the crossbow is much easier to do already sitting down and thereby eliminating some movement. I see very little difference between holding back a compound bow while waiting for a deer to come into view vs. holding up a crossbow - either one is not hard. Yes the learning curve is a little higher with a compound but I would bet a brand new user could be competent enough to hit a deer target half way consistent within an hour or so as long as they were set up properly with instruction.

Hunting is still hunting and you have to be in the right spot and pick the right time to bring up your weapon without getting busted. Shooting a deer with any archery equipment is still much more challenging than rifle or slug. I am fine with the current MN law regarding crossbows but it would not bother me if they were allowed for regular archery seasons either.

[mwal]

HNTNBX My argument was neither are compound bows compared to traditional stick bows or crossbows really archery. Yet now people consider compound bows Archery the things you mention expandable s the scopes etc all appeared on the compound first.Is not a release the same as a adjustable trigger? Which by the way have been adjustable for several hundred years. Crossbows do not have to have scopes. I shoot a traditional ML cap and ball and have hunted with a flintlock. DO I think inlines are ML no I do not but I do not worry about or put down those that choose to use them no I do not.

[Down2Earth]

I was once in the "Holier than thou" archery crowd but could really care less now. Just as I'm sure when compounds were legalized the recurve and longbow people were back then. Once the law allows crossbows the compound people will continue to use their compounds, longbow and recurve people will continue to use theirs. Nothing much will change.

[Musky Buck]

Interesting, my whole thing is that dude shooting 80 yards dead on the screws with his crossbow which is double a compound and we know they'll be using heavier arrows soon that will extend that range with more cams for speed or something and maybe that comes into play after we allow them, that crossbow on camera I could not even with a DVR see the arrow whatsoever it was that fast I figured at 80 yards you'd see it for sure didn't happen, both animals dropped in their tracks like they were hit with a .300 mag, lol maybe they were. Mwal, but I can shoot my traditional as well as most with an in-line, open sights bring it on, the issue isn't modern vs traditional I think it's that the 10K diehards lost their quiet season, many still have it quiet, but not if you're in my neck of the woods muzzy's are all over the woods, my uncle can shoot at 30 yards with his recurve as well as most with a compound with no pins, but my uncle would be no match vs. a crossbow as that distance gets extended to 40+ yards so that is the issue almost "range". IDK what side of the fence I'd be on, likely against, but just pondering my bow hunting operation for the future, if no crossbow I have to set up much closer to my spot and if crossbows I can set up further away as I'd spend the dough to get a top of the line 1. Well thankfully maybe Wisc. can trouble shoot the issues if there are any, do most states just have a crossbow type season ? I think they'd be great for city limit hunts etc.

[monstermoose78]

I can tell you crossbows lose energy faster than compound bows. There is no way I would ever think to shoot 80 yards with mine. 40 tops and that would be in the wide open. In the woods it is hard to get a clear shot at over 30 yards. I practice with my crossbow the same amount as I did with my compound bow.

Every one I talk to thinks the crossbow is some extreme killing machine, because they have a high draw weight. Well you still need to get the deer close enough, get the crossbow up to your shoulder, settle your nerves, and make a good ethical shot. So far I have only shot one deer with my crossbow. I put in many hours this year in the ground blind and did not get any deer that gave me a good shot. No bolts sent at any deer for me this year.

[mwal]

Musky Buck I agree on the ML with open or peep sights when talking MN. Since WI was at the beginning of discussion they allow scoped inline which is just as good as my 7mm-08 at 200 yards I have shot my brothers T/C inline and was amazed at its accuracy with the scope when shot at the bench. When I got into ML it was to escape the shotgun zoo in So MN. You were restricted to only a few area's of State land to hunt but we hardly ever saw anyone or any deer but we had quality time in the woods. Then they opened it up to State wide then in-lines were invented making it easier to shoot and clean. The huge influx came when the DNR decided to let you go ML with your rifle license if you were not successful or the Allstate Buck tags of years gone by. Same as when I started bow hunting with the recurve in mid 70's in NW WI. There were hardly any bow hunters and the few there always gave wide berth to each other. Compounds opened the flood gates to everyone getting interested in Archery which was not a bad thing. Now people are aging and seeing crossbows as a way to keep going archery style it's still a close range weapon a string an arrow and a broadhead. Crossbows are expensive and who knows if the season will be kept after the trial period. Some people may wait. I have a friend who is handicapped and uses his crossbow in WI and MN and has taken 4 or 5 deer. He said it is actually harder in his opinion. They are heavy bulky you still have to know distances . They are not a rifle. Deer still jump the string. If he could he would go back to compound bow but his handicap does not allow it. He had a choice quit hunting or take up crossbow. HE values his time in the woods and took the crossbow. My brother is also the same opinion he was in an accident and broke his shoulder and when recovered could not draw his compound he tried the crossbow but had the same complaints used it one season and spent the summer working his way up to a 45lb compound and uses that now instead of a 70lb one. He said go buy one they are not the rifles they are portrayed to be. I will wait and see. I sold my Black Widow as I can no longer handle the heavy recurve I have a 30 inch draw and was pulling 68# @ 30 inches that takes some effort to stay proficient at so I sold it. I may now go my brothers route and get a lower poundage compound for now.

Mwal

[Musky Buck]

10 4 mwal was unaware Wisc. allowed scopes, sounds like they're just gonna let it all air out with baiting in places, scoped Muskets, crossbows etc. If that's the case I wonder what the next big deal will be, what's left really ? I agree mwal, aging hunters this should be an option and I did give a lot of thought to, man a crossbow is bulky kinda, seem a bit tough to kinda handle, to aim and to steady especially if you're a free hand shooter, but seeing that video Saturday that dude made it seem like cakewalk having a device he just set it on etc. and I could see people just leaving their crossbow in their boxstand because why carry it out and back and forth day after day etc. I agree with if you can't hunt with a compound, this should be just fine, think of all the heart attack survivors like my dad who could never pull a compound back again, not sure he coukld get that done with a crossbow either but we could help there and he could leave it in his stand I hope that's within the rules idk. Will be strange to see in the outdoor news people from Wisc. taken by crossbow. Really, as long as the proper tag gets used no problem, problem where I'm at is a large majority of our area bowhunters would never put their buck tag on him because of rifle season a coming or muzzy or a late bow scenario after that, there is unfortunately a lot of that in my area, a ton of that if opportunity arises. Can never figure out how some of those same guys end up tagging a buck with their rifle knowing they bow shot 1 already, then yet if they have a party member or friend, they can save that tag again and even again and lay it all out as "party hunting" I tell them it's greed. Everyones mother and wife around their gets a tag to use on the first buck of the season. No idea how far off registration numbers actually are to those that cut up their own. But whatever that's been going on forever now so it is what it is. November 8th is the date to look forward to now. Man what a light read the outdoor news has been, 15 bucks and like 3 does pictured in the last 3 weeks worth of that paper, pretty thin or are they waiting to load up an issue ? A few years back it was page after page through February even, must have been a bit tough out there this year, I've noticed bowhunters doing the best if you count pictures some issues it's a 50/50 split with 1/5 of the hunters vs rifle, seems the best bet to at least see a giant. I'm kinda toast on this topic and deer hunting in general,we'll see how it goes in Wisconsin, the hope now is for some better temperatures and no major snow events and hammer every coyote we can sparing a few fawns which might be very precious fawns if winter kicks us bad, absolutely avoiding putting any un-needed stress on them, keeping the coon hounds out of sections that hold wintering herds, do more calling type of hunting.

[Wanderer]

When I got into ML it was to escape the shotgun zoo in So MN.

When I got into archery it was to escape the gun zoo. I too appreciate quiet woods and natural deer movement. Why does everyone have to be out there all the time?

After the lobbyists convince the MN Legislature to allow crossbows in MN for everyone, then maybe we can open natural areas to motorized vehicles so everyone can enjoy them regardless of health or motivational level. I can't wait until they convince the Feds to open the BWCAW to motors again so nobody has to paddle and portage if they have a sore shoulder.

The push to legalize crossbows and consider them the same as archery is driven by financial interests mainly. It's been said SO many times that people who have physical impairments can get themselves a permit if its that important to them. There are allowances.

I know my point is about the least politically correct one to make but it gets right to the core of the debate. Dance around all the technology arguments you want to, but people that oppose crossbows being considered legal archery equipment and have concurrent seasons are most upset about degrading some of the last of the ever dwindling true natural hunting experiences we can enjoy close to home.

Go ahead, legalize them in MN, let the manufacturers make more $$, get more people out there longer to target our already depleting deer herd, compete more for land access and bump into each other more so everyone can be frustrated about who's hunting where and how and how its messing up your own hunt.

Again, this is about $$.

[DonBo]

Wanderer, you hit the nail squarly on the head. Now where is that sarcasm font?

[sticknstring]

I'd like to keep crossbows out of archery season as much as the next guy, but it's not going to happen guys. The big push is 2015. We're next. Rather than complain about it, we might as well band together & embrace the outdoor experience as one group - hunters. The deer herd in this state should be garnering a lot more attention than weapon preference. By the time the xbow bills are passed, there won't hardly be a deer around to shoot.

[bowhunternw]

When I go into archery it was to escape the gun zoo. I too appreciate quiet woods and natural deer movement. Why does everyone have to be out there all the time?

After the lobbyists convince the MN Legislature to allow crossbows in MN for everyone, then maybe we can open natural areas to motorized vehicles so everyone can enjoy them regardless of health or motivational level. I can't wait until they convince the Feds to open the BWCAW to motors again so nobody has to paddle and portage if they have a sore shoulder.

The push to legalize crossbows and consider them the same as archery is driven by financial interests mainly. It's been said SO many times that people who have physical impairments can get themselves a permit if its that important to them. There are allowances.

I know my point is about the least politically correct one to make but it gets right to the core of the debate. Dance around all the technology arguments you want to, but people that oppose crossbows being considered legal archery equipment and have concurrent seasons are most upset about degrading some of the last of the ever dwindling true natural hunting experiences we can enjoy close to home.

Go ahead, legalize them in MN, let the manufacturers make more $$, get more people out there longer to target our already depleting deer herd, compete more for land access and bump into each other more so everyone can be frustrated about who's hunting where and how and how its messing up your own hunt.

Again, this is about $$.

I feel exactly the same as this! Good post

[Wanderer]

Wanderer, you hit the nail squarly on the head. Now where is that sarcasm font?

Shanked it for ya a bit?

Just figured I'd lay it out there and be honest. I love the concept of a sport we can enjoy that requires above average commitment to developing the skill set needed to be proficient. I'm not the best archer out there myself but if the sport were turned into a point and shoot type of deal that didn't require that above average commitment, it would lose some of its value in my opinion

I was actually impressed Rob Drieslein took the step to write in Outdoor News that he was getting frustrated with "The constant dumbing down" of hunting when the news of Wisconsin's rule change was published.

[gardn184]

I'll apologize ahead of time for this novel...but it's an issue I've dealt with every day at work being as I help out at a shop based in Wisconsin.

I used to be on the fence on this issue. I'll admit that I'm a bit selfish and I don't want to share the September woods anymore than I already do. I'm a die hard bow hunter. But there is also the side of me that wants to grow the sport and hunting. I feel that opening a larger population to xbows will grow the sport. While I'm certainly not old enough at the young age of 25 to know what was said with the invention of the compound bow I can certainly imagine the same argument compound shooters are using against xbows was used by recurve shooters against a compound. Look at the increase in bow hunters, target archers, and just all around acceptance of archery around the U.S. on a non hunting level with the advent of the compound bow. Making an archery type weapon that is easier to use available to more of the general public will only help increase hunter numbers...and hopefully a better appreciation for hunting within the non hunting public. The use of crossbows will help get people involved in our sport who might not feel comfortable chasing deer with a compound, my dad for one hasn't bow hunted in 20 years. Due to time constraints he doesn't have the time to practice enough to feel that he can make an ethical shot on a whitetail with his bow. I've seen him shoot....he can easily hit a pie plate at 20 yds every time, thats more than can be said of others who hunt with a bow. I purchased a xbow so that next year when he comes to visit me up here in Duluth I'll be able to go out and sit with him over the bridge in the ground blind after a night of shooting and hopefully see him get a deer. You're right it is that easy to sight them in and shoot them within 30 yds and that isn't fair to those of us who bust our butts all year to get in shape and shoot....but since when is the world fair. The chance at a memory like that is well worth it to me to have to share the woods with other hunters who don't work as hard as I do to become proficient. Because I know they'll cherish their successes as much as I do. Another great example of who this might help is shooters who can't quite pull 30lbs. I know of a few women who can only pull back 25lbs who would love to hunt during bow season, but can't because they can't quite hit that legal minimum, and wouldn't feel comfortable shooting deer at 30 even if they could. They don't fit the bill for a xbow permit because they're perfectly fit...but not strong. Being able to purchase a crossbow and hunt with it gets them into the woods with their families. While all these feel good stories are a great reason for the xbow another hope of mine is that all those hunters who pick up their bow for the first time on opening day of the season and expect it will be ok....will instead purchase a crossbow and be able to make an actual killing shot with limited practice so there will be less wounded deer wandering around with arrows in their butts, shoulders, backs, and heads. I'm ok with more people in the woods enjoying what all us bow hunters already understand about hunting deer, hopefully they'll all become more accomplished and passionate hunters due to their successes and failures with an xbow.

Here's an interesting analogy I heard from a customer the other day....is anyone here crying about the vast improvements in fishing equipment in the last 20 years....how about the advent of flashers? Don't they make it at least a million times easier it seems to ice fish. I didn't own one until a couple years ago...now I'm dependent on the darn thing. How about portable shacks that set up and take down in 3 minutes and keep you super warm? This is very similar....our lakes are already loaded down with people...why make ice fishing easier, then more people will fish. Let's say people can't use flashers because it was a new technology that makes it easier for a vast majority of people to catch suspended fish so our depleted fishery won't be so pressured and so lazy people who don't know how to cover water jigging can't have as much success as those who fish every day. However you can use a flasher if you're disabled or elderly because you can't move around as much or it's painful for you to drill extra holes and jig so hard in the water column.

Many of you will say this is a ridiculous example...but is it? Sure got my mind thinking.

[6arrows]

Oh shut the h*** up and hunt. How about the guys that only shoot bucks in minnesota and then come to wisconsin to shoot does?What ever kind of weapon you got in your hands enjoy. Before you know it there wont be any deer left to shoot anyway with the winter we are having. No one is ever happy about anything. you could have underwear made of gold and still find something to complain about.

[Greenhornet84]

I call for a shoot out 40 yards no rest guess who's gonna hit the bulls eye more often. My brother hunts with us using a crossbow and I don't really see him at an advantage in the last two years he's had it. Ya sitting at a table it's a little more accurate but how often do you find a perfect rest in the woods.

[Swiftswamper]

I don't see it as advantage. My friend uses one and doesn't shoot further than the rest of my crew. I took a buck at 47 yards with my mission and the cross bow man said he wouldn't have shot much further if any

[SmellEsox]

I'll apologize ahead of time for this novel...but it's an issue I've dealt with every day at work being as I help out at a shop based in Wisconsin.

I used to be on the fence on this issue. I'll admit that I'm a bit selfish and I don't want to share the September woods anymore than I already do. I'm a die hard bow hunter. But there is also the side of me that wants to grow the sport and hunting. I feel that opening a larger population to xbows will grow the sport. While I'm certainly not old enough at the young age of 25 to know what was said with the invention of the compound bow I can certainly imagine the same argument compound shooters are using against xbows was used by recurve shooters against a compound. Look at the increase in bow hunters, target archers, and just all around acceptance of archery around the U.S. on a non hunting level with the advent of the compound bow. Making an archery type weapon that is easier to use available to more of the general public will only help increase hunter numbers...and hopefully a better appreciation for hunting within the non hunting public. The use of crossbows will help get people involved in our sport who might not feel comfortable chasing deer with a compound, my dad for one hasn't bow hunted in 20 years. Due to time constraints he doesn't have the time to practice enough to feel that he can make an ethical shot on a whitetail with his bow. I've seen him shoot....he can easily hit a pie plate at 20 yds every time, thats more than can be said of others who hunt with a bow. I purchased a xbow so that next year when he comes to visit me up here in Duluth I'll be able to go out and sit with him over the bridge in the ground blind after a night of shooting and hopefully see him get a deer. You're right it is that easy to sight them in and shoot them within 30 yds and that isn't fair to those of us who bust our butts all year to get in shape and shoot....but since when is the world fair. The chance at a memory like that is well worth it to me to have to share the woods with other hunters who don't work as hard as I do to become proficient. Because I know they'll cherish their successes as much as I do. Another great example of who this might help is shooters who can't quite pull 30lbs. I know of a few women who can only pull back 25lbs who would love to hunt during bow season, but can't because they can't quite hit that legal minimum, and wouldn't feel comfortable shooting deer at 30 even if they could. They don't fit the bill for a xbow permit because they're perfectly fit...but not strong. Being able to purchase a crossbow and hunt with it gets them into the woods with their families. While all these feel good stories are a great reason for the xbow another hope of mine is that all those hunters who pick up their bow for the first time on opening day of the season and expect it will be ok....will instead purchase a crossbow and be able to make an actual killing shot with limited practice so there will be less wounded deer wandering around with arrows in their butts, shoulders, backs, and heads. I'm ok with more people in the woods enjoying what all us bow hunters already understand about hunting deer, hopefully they'll all become more accomplished and passionate hunters due to their successes and failures with an xbow.

Here's an interesting analogy I heard from a customer the other day....is anyone here crying about the vast improvements in fishing equipment in the last 20 years....how about the advent of flashers? Don't they make it at least a million times easier it seems to ice fish. I didn't own one until a couple years ago...now I'm dependent on the darn thing. How about portable shacks that set up and take down in 3 minutes and keep you super warm? This is very similar....our lakes are already loaded down with people...why make ice fishing easier, then more people will fish. Let's say people can't use flashers because it was a new technology that makes it easier for a vast majority of people to catch suspended fish so our depleted fishery won't be so pressured and so lazy people who don't know how to cover water jigging can't have as much success as those who fish every day. However you can use a flasher if you're disabled or elderly because you can't move around as much or it's painful for you to drill extra holes and jig so hard in the water column.

Many of you will say this is a ridiculous example...but is it? Sure got my mind thinking.

I'm not in the group that thinks we need more hunters in the woods. There's plenty out there now. The best way to get more hunters in the woods is to make sure there is plenty of access for hunters and plenty of deer to see and hunt.

[Bear55]

I'd like to keep crossbows out of archery season as much as the next guy, but it's not going to happen guys. The big push is 2015. We're next. Rather than complain about it, we might as well band together & embrace the outdoor experience as one group - hunters. The deer herd in this state should be garnering a lot more attention than weapon preference. By the time the xbow bills are passed, there won't hardly be a deer around to shoot.

Think we are in the same boat, don't really like the idea but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. Herd management is much higher on my list, with the massive pressure we need better management.