MN Pheasants down 29%

[Ryan_V]

we get it Harvey, you don't think there are birds to shoot and don't want to hunt, so don't. is every single pheasant visible when you drive by a field or a piece of land? is it possible that there was a late hatch and the birds aren't out yet? is every single crop picked from the fields where we know pheasants hang out? pheasants are smart birds and stay hidden well. bottom line is there are birds if you want to put in some time, I'll agree, not alot of them, but there are birds. this is going nowhere, so let's end it, I know you like to get the last word, most of us don't have the time to post the number of times a day like you do, so go ahead and reply, I'm looking forward to the season, with my daughter and her first season, with my dog who is in her prime, it's gonna be a great year for me, I'm done with this thread. Ryan....out! have a good season too those of you who choose to hunt! pm me and we can hit some fields together!

[harvey lee]

The only reason I have replied Ryan is because you said things that are so far from the truth.

I did not say there were no birds to shoot, I just said darn few. I also did not say I do not want to hunt, I did say I won't go if the numbers are this low, big difference.

I also did not say one could see every bird from the road. I have helped a few friends with chemical applications and that puts one in a field not just along the gravel. heck, I believe the DNR still does roadside counts from the road, one does not get a total amount for the birds but, one can see from year to year if the birds are up or down.

NO need to get all upset over a debate about the bird population.

This thread was about the decline in the bird population and then it went to PF. You did not like the fact that I stated that PF was not really helping increase the bird population so you disagreed with me, that's fine, we both have our thought's on this issue.. We may both need to agree that we do not agree on PF's efforts. I applaud thier efforts, but I have not seen any real benefit in regards to an increase in the population. That's all.

I hope you go out and have a great time, but please don't start this simply due to the fact I am not going to go due to low bird numbers and do not believe the money PF has spent is increasing the birds in Sibley County.

If you believe things are better and PF has made a huge difference, that's fine. McLeod county has spent millions for projects and are light years ahead of Sibly county. I have been using Sibley county as a reference for birds.

So, let's agree to disagree and good luck today on your hunt with your daughter.

[reddog]

Even when the pheasants were down, there used to be a huntable population of Hungarian Partridge (in the south/southwest part of the state where I grew up) that used to occupy a lot of my time hunting.. I miss them..

[harvey lee]

Agreed Reddog, we use to find a covey here and there but a do not see to many anymore. Fun birds to hunt.

[Scott K]

I didnt hunt very hard, but only because I didnt see any birds, and the dogs lost interest early.

[ClownColor]

I agree with Cody.... the number of hunters has increased greatly in the last 25 years. 25 years ago there were more birds, because there were exponentially less hunters. without PF, I think those of us that love the sport of pheasant hunting might not have been so involved without programs and land supported by PF. are they a cure all? absolutely not, but I think they are instrumental in the sport. Just today I saw on Twitter that they are calling on congress to open public land that is closed due to the shutdown. May or may not happen, but they are a very large well connected organization.

I'd check those numbers. Pheasant and duck, though recently up some, its not close to its historic highs of the past in regards to hunters. Its no fun walking miles and miles not seeing a rooster. Of course you can walk it, say your having fun, but we all know your just talking...its not fun. Unfortunately there's no fix, none that's reasonable, cost effective, or without spending millions and millions on land.

[CodyDawg]

I hunted geese and worked on deer stands primarily this weekend, but did get out for about a half an hour or so and hunted a 13 acre field and saw 13 birds. Got 1, passed up 2 young ones. Where was this? On habitat enhanced by the local PF chapter.

Harvey, you keep swiching from Sibley county to MN. No idea what is happening in Sibley, but you are dead wrong about MN. I shot 24 wild birds last year and my dad and brother both shot more than 15 each. I can name 4 more guys who shot about that many. All MN birds, mix of public and private. It is pretty fun to see the results of habitat work. Here are the numbers of birds shot on one farm (60 acres) by year (and by the way, we are quite a ways north of Sibley county). Can you guess when the habitat work was done???

1994-2000 about 1-2 per year

2001 2

2002 1

2003 2

2004 4

2005 13

2006 21

2007 24

2008 27

2009 6 - Note we did very little hunting on that place that year

2010 13

2011 10

2012 25

[Greenhornet84]

And you hunted the same amount every other year? Lets everyone agree there ain't squat for birds drove back home for the cities on opening morning 9-noon. Couldn't even tell it was pheasant season, usually you can't go a mile without seeing orange everywhere.

[CodyDawg]

'hornet, yes all years other than 09 had roughly the same pressure. Obviously it varied some, but 09 was an outlier for various reasons. We typically average about a bird per person per time out on that property. 09 was similar, but we just didnt go out as much.

This year we have hunted ducks there but not pheasants yet (we have hit other spots). I am a little worried as we didnt see or hear any while duck hunting there, but there is a sea of corn around it. But this weekend we will prolly hit it.

[PurpleFloyd]

Around here 2005-2007 was the best and it went down from there. During those years we were getting 50 a season or so. Last few years have been way down and the best indicator is back in those years you saw lots of new trucks from the Metro cruising around looking for hunting spots and if you didn't get out to a spot by 10 it was hit. This year there is zero orange clad traffic cruising around and you don't see a fraction of the hunters that were around a few years back.

We have only seen a few birds this year during the time we have hunted but this weekend will be a good indicator because a lot of corn is getting taken out and we should get a report from family who farm on what they are seeing. Just picked my son up a new Winchester SX3 tonight so he is already itching to get out and send some lead down the barrel.

[harvey lee]

I hunted geese and worked on deer stands primarily this weekend, but did get out for about a half an hour or so and hunted a 13 acre field and saw 13 birds. Got 1, passed up 2 young ones. Where was this? On habitat enhanced by the local PF chapter.

Harvey, you keep swiching from Sibley county to MN. No idea what is happening in Sibley, but you are dead wrong about MN. I shot 24 wild birds last year and my dad and brother both shot more than 15 each. I can name 4 more guys who shot about that many. All MN birds, mix of public and private. It is pretty fun to see the results of habitat work. Here are the numbers of birds shot on one farm (60 acres) by year (and by the way, we are quite a ways north of Sibley county). Can you guess when the habitat work was done???

1994-2000 about 1-2 per year

2001 2

2002 1

2003 2

2004 4

2005 13

2006 21

2007 24

2008 27

2009 6 - Note we did very little hunting on that place that year

2010 13

2011 10

2012 25

Wel that's great you have a few in your neighborhood.

Seem's I was talking about 2 small areas in the entire state.

As a comparison, where I deer hunt in ND, we have good hunting, others areas not so as some tell me, I do not call them liars or jump them, I just say that stinks. I have no idea what others area have for a population so I off course do not question what they say.

Facts may be, I saw the days when one could flush 100 birds at a time. What you see today compared to the hay days is nada.

I could make a chart with the deer I shot shot in one area in ND, does that mean the entire state has those numbers, almost laughable.

The fact still remains, according to the DNR the bird population is way down, not my figures but thiers. I did not say one could not shoot a few, just said it is poor at best out there and you could find a pocket of birds here and there.

I get my info from what I have seen and what the local farmers have told me they saw while in thier fields.

[harvey lee]

I didnt hunt very hard, but only because I didnt see any birds, and the dogs lost interest early.

Were you in the LeSueur area Scott?

[rundrave]

I get my info from what I have seen and what the local farmers have told me they saw while in thier fields.

But yet you have yet to set foot in the fields yourself! Ill take first hand reports from those that still go out and get their boots muddy than from a bunch of old timers who sit around and drink coffee.

We get it you don't hunt pheasants any more. Save your gossip and doom and gloom pheasant stories for your coffee talk and spare the rest of us.

[CaptainMusky]

As far as I am concerned there have NEVER been good numbers of birds in Sibley county. I grew up 15 miles from Sibley county and mostly black earth as far as the eye can see. There is your reason there are so few birds.

Harvey Tell your farmer buddies to plant some habitat and there would be birds around.

[harvey lee]

rundave, I have numerous friends that have told me they have done poorly this year when they were out. Those are reports as close as I need to know what is out there without going out. I use to hunt pheasants more than 90% of the people but I have stopped simply for the lack of birds. Sure, I could go out and shot 1 or maybe 2 but I would rather do other things that are more productive. Anyone else can do as they please but I choose not to until the numbers get up there a bit more and with the farm program, that is highl;y unlikely anytime soon.

I have no idea about your friends who hunt but my OLD TIMER friends who have hunted this year do not lie to me so I take what they tell me as fact. But, just maybe since they have OLD TIMERS brains, maybe they do not know what they saw when they were out. You know how those OLD TIMERS forget everything from 2 days ago and how much they lie.

The only gossip around is the gossip on this subject.

One does not have to go out into the field to know what is out there.

[harvey lee]

As far as I am concerned there have NEVER been good numbers of birds in Sibley county. I grew up 15 miles from Sibley county and mostly black earth as far as the eye can see. There is your reason there are so few birds.

Harvey Tell your farmer buddies to plant some habitat and there would be birds around.

Year's back there were huntable numbers but nothing to get overly excited about.

I do not see much planting for habitat when ag land sells for $10,000 and maybe more per acre and the Gov programs pay way less. It's $'s for them and pheasants do not put any food on thier table or help with the bills like corn and beans do.

I would agree with you that we need more habitat but with land values, prices for grain, long story short, habitat for wildlife is not on that list of what to do woith thier acerage.

I agree, tough for the birds to survive in a black desert.

[rundrave]

Harvey, I mean no dis-respect to your or your "old timer" friends. My point is that you come on these pheasant hunting threads for years with the same message.

You don't hunt them, you don't put the time in the fields like the others on these threads do. Your posts are the same thing, over and over, rinse and repeat.

People are still going to hunt pheasants regardless of bird numbers. Just because it doesn't excite you to go any more so be it.

[harvey lee]

Never said noone should hunt, don't know where you get your info.

Seem's to me in my area, in the past years, it has been the same. Some report better bird numbers and that's fine, I guess one should only post if they are going to post that the birds are plentiuful. Maybe the DNR should only post when the numbers are up and not like the last few when they post the same thing, number's down.

I also never said people should not go out, you said I said that. Yes, I have hunted them and hard when the numbers were better, I simply choose to not hunt now until the numbers increase, ok with you? You are more than welcome to chase them all you want, never said you should not.

Talk about putting words in one's mouth.

No reason to post in here any longer as one should only post if they have seen or shot many birds, if not, please do not post.

[walleye18]

No question the bird numbers are down and we all know the reasons why.....

But - there will always be people out there (myself included at times) that do the right things, at times and hunt the right areas....and harvest birds.

In the last 2 years we harvested 10% of the birds we use to get...but we still go cause its FUN!...and my dogs like it too!

Nuff said.

[rundrave]

Never said noone should hunt, don't know where you get your info.

[harvey lee]

Bla Bla Bla.

You may edit and twist your words any way you would like.

[LandDr]

I wonder if people really know why the bird numbers are down. ???

I don't think blaming the farmers is completely correct. It is their land and they have a right to do with it what they want...as long as it is legal and within the provisions of the farm program. If it is illegal and outside the provisions of the farm program...then there are some issues.

Bad winters...yes, that potentially increases mortality.

Cold wet springs...yes, that also potentially increases mortality.

But...my farm has been exposed to the same winters and same cold wet springs...yet I have birds flying all over the place.

What I am getting at is that pheasants are "home bodies"...they don't travel far from the place they like to live. DNR studies have shown that pheasants stay very close to their winter cover areas but will travel up to 6 miles out to nest "if they need to". I personally feel those distances can be much less with proper design and management.

My property is designed with shrub\conifer areas protecting food plots and feeders along with surrounding native grass areas. This design gets more hens through the winter which provides for a higher nesting population which results in a higher number of chances of having more birds. IE...10 hens producing two chicks during a bad spring = 20 new birds...versus...50 hens producing two chicks during a bad spring = 100 new birds. The more hens you have...the better you will get through the bad years in good condition.

So...we are not shooting hens. What is happening to the hens?

My opinion is that we are not taking care of our hens. You can have a "black desert" as some have expressed and still get your hens through the winter by having one really well designed "Winter Core Area" (WCA) in the "9 mile square area". (9 mile square area is the DNR's research out of the Medila, MN research station. I personally don't buy into it as I would rather have a WCA in every 1 mile square or slightly out from that.)

So...if we really looked at what we can do within even a 3 mile area, can we develop WCAs to get our hens through the winter even though there is extensive farming going on???

I say that "yes we can". But is it being done? Not that I see.

There are a few private lands with some descent designs and pheasant numbers...mine is one of them. But how about all the other areas?

How about the WMA and WPAs? Are they set up as WCAs to get hens through the winter? Remember...we have control over these areas...no one is coming in and making a black desert on the WMA and WPA units.

But are the WMA and WPAs getting hens through the winter? Are they set up as WCAs?

My observation is that they are not. For the most part they have or are cutting down the trees, not putting food plots in and no feeders. Just high diversity prairie that is not used by the hens because "Dead Hens Don't Lay Eggs". There is an exception in SW Minnesota however where some previous DNR managers installed large conifer plantings and still have food plots being installed...there are also higher bird numbers there. Some great fore site from those guys!

What I am getting at is that I would like everyone to do the following...

1. Identify the best winter cover areas in your area or where you hunt and get food plots and\or feeders implemented to get more hens through the winter. It is too late for food plots...so start getting feeders out before the snow flies.

2. Contact your local DNR and state DNR and ask them why they are not planting WCAs on the public land us tax payers have paid for. And don't let them give you the song and dance about "there is cover and food near by or within the area". If that was REALLY the case, then we wouldn't have a dwindling pheasant population.

3. Contact your local PF group and state PF and ask them why they are not planting WCAs on the land they buy and donate for public land us tax payers and members have paid for. And don't let them give you the song and dance about "there is cover and food near by or within the area". If that was REALLY the case, then we wouldn't have a dwindling pheasant population.

If you don't do any of these things, then you have absolutely nothing to complain about.

The fact that our own PUBLIC land is not being managed for pheasants is frustrating. I really don't think anyone should complain about the farmers when "your own public land" is sitting in shambles. If every WMA was designed with maximum carrying capacities for pheasants, you would definitely not see the decline in pheasants we are seeing right now.

I am more than happy to help anyone review aerial photos of their area to identify WCAs to get feeders into. I am also more than happy to help provide designs for WCAs on public lands if you want to present them to the decision makers. Let's make it happen!

[rundrave]

We get it you don't hunt pheasants any more. Save your gossip and doom and gloom pheasant stories for your coffee talk and spare the rest of us.

[CaptainMusky]

Much of the land in West Central MN is WPA's and as the Fish and Wildlife Service has made abundantly clear, they care NOTHING about pheasants in their management plans for these areas. Trying to get food plots or feeders in these areas will never happen unless there is a mindset shift at the top and I dont see it. Their focus is waterfowl and waterfowl only.

That leaves WMA's which I agree with you 100% that in SW MN lands have extensive food plots and wintering cover. Trouble is those lands were established many moons ago in most cases and much of the cover is aged to a point its no longer effective and the foodplots are sprayed so there are no weeds in them because the "farmer" doesnt want a weedy crop.

I would honestly love to see your Land Landdr. There is nothing I appreciate more than a well planned out and managed piece of property for wildlife.

I have high aspirations to own one myself one day, but the prices are currently out of my reach.

I have hunted in your neck of the woods for nearly 15 years and there are some nice properties out there, but some have changed negatively significantly in the last 5 years.

[LandDr]

Captain...let me know and I would be happy to give a tour. Maybe we should set a date and everyone can show up for a "field day". I am bow hunting right now so probably don't want to tramps around the entire property but can take a look from the outside in. Sunset it always fun when all of the roosters start cackling and chasing other roosters and hens around.

My past experience with USFW is that they will allow feeders. Tree plantings and food plots definitely not...which I also agree is really sad. I don't understand how that agency can be so narrow minded on this.

If anyone has a WPA they want to put feeders on, I would be happy to lobby the area office for that unit to get permission. Worst they can say is no, and if they do I will challenge them on it some more.

WMAs...hunters need to engage and engage fast. PF is buying land to go to the DNR and it is all grass. On mild winters you will see a population increase with "just grass"...but one or two bad winter\springs and you are right back to ground zero. That is not an opinion since everyone can see where we are currently at in most of the state. Contact them and ask the tough questions. Please post your results and what they said...it would be interesting to hear from everyone on what they found out.

BigTen...I have done A LOT of the native prairie plantings in those counties and spent a lot of time there as well. What happens when all of these large areas get put into GRASS is that it develops a situation where the pheasants have to go farther and farther to the FOOD SOURCE during the winter. THE GRASS HAS ISOLATED THE WINTER COVER AREAS FROM THE FOOD SOURCES.

For example...if you have a really good woody cover area and then you plant 40 or 60 acres of grass around it, where is the food source now? The food source used to be right beside the thick woody cover...but now it is a quarter or half mile away! So when the going gets tough in Jan and Feb, these birds have to venture further and further away from the excellent safe cover to get the food. DNR studies show the further birds have to go for food, mortality increases exponentially!! This is a HUGE issue! Again why we need to get the food back into the existing WCAs areas and make sure new lands have WCAs designed into them.

Back 10-15 years ago there used to be a real relationship between Ag and winter cover. But now the conservation programs have isolated the winter cover from the Ag food and we are seeing some really high mortality rates with our hens.

Some good points BigTen