Saints paid players to hurt foes

[TR21HP]

You're not going to see any criminal charges filed but you could see some lawsuits from players whose careers were shortened or ended due to pay for hire hits. One thing being aggressive another thing being dirty.

[mrklean]

I'm very interested to see what fines and penalties are given out, ill give it to Goodell he doesn't mess around when he gives penalties and fines out

[toughguy]

I think the biggest deal to the NFL is that the Saints were told to stop it and they didn't. That's what's going to cause Goodell to make an example of them. I have a feeling the boot will come down so hard you won't see this again for many years.

That said I've seen worse - This is from the Packer Bear game where Martin had numbers written on his towel and was crossing them off

[ozzie]

the main thing in this case is that they were getting paid extra for those bounties. It is different than saying lets put some heat on the qb and make sure he knows we are there...A system that pays for the injuring of a fellow football player that is out there trying to earn a living just like them is wrong in so many ways. Goodell should hit all involved pretty hard.

[kg2]

NFL retirees are now saying that the NFL didn't go far enough warning players of long-term damage from concussions. The NFL has to make an example of any late or questionable hits. They need to be worried about liability.

[mrklean]

NFL retirees are now saying that the NFL didn't go far enough warning players of long-term damage from concussions. The NFL has to make an example of any late or questionable hits. They need to be worried about liability.

Not to down play the former players and there health issues concussions and what not but we live in a sue happy world now, if someone thinks that can make millions by suing they will. I understand that some are having medical issues but who really thinks 250+ pounds players flying and hitting each other in the heads for 20 weeks a year isnt gonna cause major issues down the road?

[nofishfisherman]

There is still another angle to this. Players were getting paid by coaches outside of the terms of their contract.

I can't remember who the coach was but a few years ago the league came down on a coach because he promised to buy a kicker an expensive bottle of wine if he hit a game winning field goal. The coach never did follow through with it because the leauge warned him that it would be considered as paying a player outside of what he is owed by his contract which i guess is a big deal to the league.

I hope they come down hard on this. Really there is no place for this in the game. I get that its a physical game I don't want the league to lose that but trying to intentionally hurt players and take them out of a game is borderline criminal. In my industry i have companies that I'm competetive against, what would happen if I decided to pay bounes to workers who went over to a competitor and beat up their CEO or CFO?

While symbolically it would be fun to see the Saints stripped of their superbowl victory I think the harsher punishment would come from the loss of multiple top draft picks. Make them give up their picks in rounds 1-2 for the next several years. Plus suspend any coaches or players that are known to have participated in the bounty system. Thats the type of punishment that would deter a team from doing it again.

If its just a large fine no one will care, you just put that fine in the category of "cost of doing business" and write it off. In the end the Saints will have made more money winning the Super Bowl then they'll likely lose in any sort of fine.

And for those of who (ok its really just one of you) who seem to think its no big deal because its a common thing. How does the offense become easier to swallow for you just because its not uncommon? There are a lot of crimes that are very common, does that make them ok? People breaking into ice houses is common, people leaving garbage on the ice is common, baiting deer is common, are you ok with all of these offenses? At least in these offenses no one is actually physically injured.

[hawgchaser]

I can't believe the NFL spent all the time to investigate and then compose a 50,000 page summary of the practices if they didn't intend to drop a big hammer on offenders (it's hard for me to believe that number but I've heard it several times) I think many will be shocked at the severity of the consequences. The on-field penalties & fines for illegal hits have brought complaints from players and fans since the league instituted them. This situation with the Saints is the most visible and effective way to underscore once and for all the fact that the the NFL culture has changed for good.

I actually see a parallel in the bait/live well/boat drain regulations. The regulations bring the grumbling (which I really don't understand) and the fines that will come this year will be swift and sure. There will be no guesswork as to whether the rules are intended to be enforced.

If you're a Saints fan, I wouldn't be in a hurry to order tickets to see your team in the Super Bowl this year.

[nofishfisherman]

What would you guys think about a 2-3 year (postseason ban for the saints? Ban them one year for each year they violated the bounty rule.

That would have a pretty profound impact and should get the message across.

[Scott K]

I say strip the team of all draft picks for 3 years. Life time ban from the NFL of any coaches involved in it, and a 3-6 game suspension, along with a $100,000 fine to any players involved. Progressive of course, if the players have been warned already for roughness.

[flipper]

I would bet a dollar to a donut that nearly every team does it, they are just trying to make an example out of the Saints because they have ample proof. This outrage on this forum is ridiculous, this has been going on for years.

[nofishfisherman]

I guess I should ask again, what does it matter how common it is? Maybe the fact that its that common should actually raise more concern rather than apathy.

If it has been going on for years across the entire NFL then the Saints must be the dumbest organization in all of sports. To be the only team to ever be caught and to make it so obvious and then to not have stopped after the league gave them a warning, what kind of excuse is there for that?

[Scott K]

Flipper, I am not sure what you do for a living, but if one of your fellow employees put a bounty out for $50k to put you in the hospital, would that be ok to you? How about if it was put out for kids walking to school?

[B. Amish]

the nfl should drop the hammer on this. this kind of publicity will ruin the nfl. moms won't let their kids play football after reading more headlines like this. you take a combo platter of bounties and the average life expectancy of former nfl players and it will eventually lead to soccer becoming more popular.

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

I would bet a dollar to a donut that nearly every team does it, they are just trying to make an example out of the Saints because they have ample proof

That's what I was alluding to earlier. I think the investigation was conducted with sure knowledge of what the findings would be. If you're going to draw your line in the sand, why wouldn't you choose the most flagrant violators.

Quote:

This outrage on this forum is ridiculous, this has been going on for years.

It's not just this forum, and the outrage seems to be over 90% against the bounty system. Contrary to some opinions, football is not the possession of the players. It will rise or fall according to the wishes of the fans and most of them seem to share the outrage. We've even got considerable agreement between Packers & Vikings fans...who'da thunkit??

[soldoncass]

Why did the Aints NOT bring back Williams????? Are they trying to separate the team from the mess? I think they are 3 years too late.....

[LMITOUT]

Flipper, I am not sure what you do for a living, but if one of your fellow employees put a bounty out for $50k to put you in the hospital, would that be ok to you? How about if it was put out for kids walking to school?

That may be the worst comparison I have ever heard.

[LMITOUT]

YOU ARE saying that it's OKAY to promote injuring and maiming other players and putting a bounty out to do that LMIT!

[PierBridge]

Jail time and lawsuits?

Oh my goodness folks...

[flipper]

Flipper, I am not sure what you do for a living, but if one of your fellow employees put a bounty out for $50k to put you in the hospital, would that be ok to you? How about if it was put out for kids walking to school?

Never said it was ok, It isn't. I am just saying it is more the norm than the exception in professional football. If you don't know that then WAKE UP! If you think the Vikings are an exception you are wrong.

[PierBridge]

Favres responce.

"I'm not [PoorWordUsage],'' he said. "It's football. I don't think anything less of those guys. I would have loved to play with Vilma. Hell of a player. I've got a lot of respect for Gregg Williams. He's a great coach. I'm not going to make a big deal about it.

“Now the truth comes out. That’s good. But that’s football. The only thing that really [PoorWordUsage] me off about the whole thing is we lost the game. That’s the thing about that day that still bothers me. And that’s the way it goes. If they wanted me to testify in court about this, they’d be calling the wrong guy.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...oming-to-light/

[thatoneguy]

Of course Favre's going to say that, he doesn't want to sounds like a wuss. Regardless of who does/doesn't testify, the Saints are going to forfeit draft picks and Williams will be looking at a hefty fine and suspension - which is as it should be.

[PierBridge]

And just so are were clear here a bounty does not mean you have to cheap-shot somebody.

A good clean border line hit will knock a player out of the game as well.

Also I sense some flip-flopping here by some of the more prolific posters. They seem to want there cake and it too.

So It's OK to fly through the air with a Helmet to Helmet hit on a receiver or hit a QB in the head or legs because thats just football and the NFL "NO FUN LEAGUE" is turning it into flag football.

But now you are outraged.... HMMMMMMM!

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

Jail time and lawsuits?

I don't see jail time but do think lawsuits are inevitable...not from current but from past players. Pro sports players are notorious for squandering their money, and this will be an attractive cash cow to some. NFL management is trying to limit its culpability by inferring tort liability on the coaches and players. Deepest pockets will be protected as much as is possible.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

Regardless of who does/doesn't testify, the Saints are going to forfeit draft picks and Williams will be looking at a hefty fine and suspension

And I think that's reasonable.

And no Favre doesn't think that for your provided reason.