Can someone explain bear hunting to me?

[jerkbait]

Salmon, I am sorry some are a little more defensive. It is a passion and once you try it you are hooked.

My wife thought the same as you from watching it on TV. Well last year I was drawn for a bear permit. This was my first year of trying it and like others have said it is not easy to get bears to come to your bait. There are a lot of tricks to get the scent in the air so the bear can even find your bait. It is a thrill once you finally get one to hit a bait. It is even tougher to get one to iht during the daytime. Like others have said, you relly should give it a try sometime and then decide whether it is your cup of tea or not. And I am not talking through a guide, do the work yourself and I bet you would be hooked for life. Just like my wife is now. She did not hunt but she had as much fun as I did running baits and enjoying the pictures when you finally get one to come in.

[jwmiller33]

What is it about? I surely dont get up at 4am in the rainy cold to "get in touch with nature". I'm there to catch some fish.

What I meant is that I don't fish soley for the purpose to fill my freezer like some guys do. 95% of the time I fish, I release everything I catch and its not because I don't like to eat fish. To me, fishing is a way to relax and get away from the hustle and tustle of everyday life while at the same time doing something I really enjoy. Some people throw every fish they catch into the livewell. Thats not for me. I like eating fish just as much as the next guy but I don't have to kill everything I catch just to be able to pound my chest and say 'look what I caught' and brag to guys at the bar

My point is this; if you only find enjoyment out of fishing when you are catching fish, well then you and me fish for different reasons. Sure, I love catching a ton of fish just as much the next guy, but when I have a slow day on the water or get skunked, I don't go home all ticked off at the world and call it a bad day. I am grateful that I am able to fish and enjoy a little "me" time and the outdoors. There are a lot of people out there who aren't as fortunate as me and each time I am on the water, I try to soak it up and be grateful to be where I am in life.

[SalmonSlayer]

Wow, what did I start? I appreciate half of the posts on here . I'm not against bear hunting or baiting, just wanted to understand the rational behind people who do it.

In response to this 'gentleman':

Hunting over bait for bears is no different than food plots for deer, or hunting in farm land with crops in fields. Most shows on TV are on ranches, hunting clubs, and private land with fences and only certain deer are shot. As with any fishing , hunting , or other things you will always have someone that does not know anything about it cry about it. Please do your rescearch on how things are done before knocking it.

[pureinsanity]

Again, having never done it my only exposure to bear hunting was through tv shows, where Joe Blow bear hunter gets to camp, goes to his stand and blasts a bear eating trash. That, just didn't seem sporting to me.

I completely understand because most of the tv shows we see these days showing hunts are all in fenced in areas, or game farms. They want to show results, not tv shows of people not seeing a thing while out in the stand

[leech~~]

Dylan, I was just trying to help you answer Leech's question about fish baiting...hope it helped...

lichen fox, I thought your (analogy) was great! I'm not that thinned skinned not to have some fun with such a "life & death" topic some are making out their decision not to hunt Bear's to be! God I love living in such a Free country that we can all hunt the way we like (within) the laws!

[Random guy]

Great anology lichen but I want nothin' to do with a upset bear and the end of a rope!

[Random guy]

Oh and great question Salmon.

With the recent events or deaths of teddy bears and a uprising of the antis dragging everyone from housewives in London to business men in France into the debate it doesn't take much to get a rise out of the bear community or trigger a debate from a simple question. Everybody is on edge when it comes to bear hunting. The way I look at the entire debate is let’s see what happens when bear hunting or even the efficiency of baiting stops. I bet the birdfeeder and garbage can companies will love it.

[bobbymalone]

Everybody is on edge when it comes to bear hunting.

Even more the reason for hunters to explain rather than attack the questioner as ignorant or just say "you have to do it or you can't understand it"

[jwmiller33]

well said bobby... well said

[BobT]

I apologize for starting an argument. I had no malicious intent but I did find the OP's original question ironic considering the statement I pointed out. I was merely interested in understanding what he was thinking. When you really get down to it the only true "fair chase" would be to take the animal with one's bare hands. No firearm, no knife, no trap, no lure, no bait, no alluring sounds, nothing but bare hands.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Just to clarify, I don't think hunting with dogs is very sporty either, I just think it's more sporty cuz you're working with a dog(s) and using them as tools to accomplish the same end point, a dead bear. Probably a lot easier then hunting over bait, but you're not habituating an animal to come to feed at a specific time.

I guess my biggest beef with baiting is the concept of throwing stinky piles of trash out into the woods. Sure it gets eaten up by everything, but when your out chasing birds and stumble upon that stinky eye sore, it tends to turn one off to it.

But, like I said, I fully understand the 'why's' 'how's' and 'what for's' in the way bear are currently hunted. And I will stand up and always support them in the end.... especially with the Ely Pet Center up to what it is.... I LOATH that place!

[matchset]

Again, having never done it my only exposure to bear hunting was through tv shows, where Joe Blow bear hunter gets to camp, goes to his stand and blasts a bear eating trash. That, just didn't seem sporting to me.

like i said before. try it. from what i've read, you're not seeing the BIG picture!

many times, months or even years of preparation take place before these hunts. transportation, tags, equipment, gear and time away from home all add to the memory of the hunt. a day away from the office. some guys like golf; guys like you like upland birds and others like bears.

take it or leave it; but don't knock it till you try it.

[Random guy]

I guess my biggest beef with baiting is the concept of throwing stinky piles of trash out into the woods. Sure it gets eaten up by everything, but when your out chasing birds and stumble upon that stinky eye sore, it tends to turn one off to it.

That once again goes back to the individual’s way of operating, just like some people can't clean up their yard. Some bird hunters leave shell casings behind, some deer hunters leave flags, scent pads and other goodies in the woods but most sportsmen clean up. We had one group in my region got three rounds of tickets for bad bait sites just last year and still haven't changed their ways; my guess is the next round will be the end of bear hunting for them for a few years.

Now I don't run into a problem with messy baits, we keep them clean and natural as possible. We don't use trash, meats, grease or other nastiness that make a mess. We are very cautious about what goes into a bait and very conscious of what comes out at the end of the year. Yes I do forget a sign from time to time and I leave my pile logs for next year but other then that the site is clean when it’s all over. We do it to keep it clean out of respect for the land that we are taking from. Second it looks better for our clients when all they can see is a few big logs and the warden is not going bust my chops if things look good and most important to me is I normally end up wearing bait at least once a day. Bread crumbs and grains wipe off much easier then used cooking oil and rotten meat/fish. Plus if you have had to skin or handle a bear that has been wallowing around in the grease or burn you will wish a 100 times over you never used grease. Plus with the high numbers of wolves we have to watch just what smells we are putting out or one shot of K-9-P and it is all over for that site.

I do understand the problem of messy baits as does our local warden; he was having a field day writing tickets last season concerning messes on bear sites and good for him. Any respectable sportsman should be able to leave the site just as clean as he found it.

[Bear55]

I'm not crying, and this was my 'rescearch' as you put it. I was attempting to ask real bear hunters about bear hunting, because what I saw on the tv shows disturbed me. I'm just going to have to agree to disagree that hunting crop land is the same thing as baiting a particular site.

I think we all need a reminder that what we see on TV is very often not an accurate representation of what most outdoorsmen see during a given season. If it was we would all have giant bear rugs and boone and crockett deer on our walls.

Also take into consideration on any hunt that immature animals are many times easier to kill than an old wise bruin or buck, they are just different animals. If you are going to make broad generalizations then I wouldn't be surprised if you ruffle some feathers, it's just the way it is, especially with all the recent bear hunting hoop-la.

[pureinsanity]

TV shows are just marketing schemes. They want you to see a big deer or large animal and harvest it because they want YOU to come to their ranch and get that trophy in their fenced in ranch.

Why do you think they pass on animals you and I would be happy to even see in our lifetime out hunting? They have a selective harvest, or should I say shipment...

Those deer hunting shows they ship deer in from all over the place, let em lose and go chase them. Don't believe me you are silly. A friend of mine raises deer here in MN and sells them to places down south when they are mature enough to be called a trophy..

[lichen fox]

Jonny P...well put again...In Mn we are required to only use certain types of materials for legal baiting and to clean up the site when we are done...all materials must be readily biodgradable...so, no plastics, no metal...you can't even use meat with bones in it...On a side note JP...be sure you get your signs out...my nephew got a $140 ticket for leaving one out two years ago...I thought that was a little high of a fine for leaving a wooden sign out after the deadline...but whatever! I'm pretty sure that next year the new rule that only allows 3 baits per hunter goes into effect along with some additional requirements for bear outfitters...any of those new rules gonna affect you Jonny?

[CANOPY SAM]

It's been mentioned several times in this thread that most video of bear hunting is shot in enclosed fences, or controlled hunts. I really wonder if this is true?

I believe, and of course I could be wrong, that "most" of the bear hunting video we see is pretty much open range hunting. Now I know that country music guy's filmed hunt was enclosed, but that couldn't possibly be the norm.

Most bear hunting video I see is shot in Canada for wild, free range bear, or occasionally in the mountain ranges of the US, and/or Alaska. I've seen numerous, if not mostly, filmed hunts where no baiting is involved. They are spot and stalk hunts, most often with a guide, and I would judge them as "fair chase" as a hunt can get, without taking away the hunter's weapon.

There are lots of vids out there of Canadian guided hunts over bait stations, but I'd wager there are as many filmed without bait.

I'd say it really boils down to preference, and "budget", not necessarily ethics. A hunter can choose to hunt with bait, or without, and depending on knowledge and experience (and perhaps a little luck) can be successful either way.

Some people pay an outfitter to provide a fully turn-key fishing trip. The client shows up with his/her lunch box, and the guide provides everything else, and sends his clients home with fish. Does that make this fisherman unethical?

Someone applies for, and is drawn for a bear tag because they'd like to try bear hunting, but they don't know the first thing about how to hunt a bear. So they hire a professional hunting guide to help them be successful. They can even have the hunt recorded for posterity! How could this be judged as wrong?

I personally know a taxidermist/bear guide that provides a choice of bears on film, does all the leg work, completes the entire package with the mount of choice, or rug, all according to the paying client's choice, and budget. Unethical? I don't think so. It's a valuable service provided to a paying customer, and a legitimate way to make a living for the guide.

I run a small consulting business. My clients pay me for the services and information I can provide. THAT is a fair "analogy".

As for clean bait stations, I couldn't agree more Jon. I've set up active stations you could hardly tell were there the day after the animal cleaned them out. Bear have an extraordinary olfactory sense. You don't have to create the stench of a sugar beet processing plant to get their attention.

Salmon, don't feel like you've opened Pandora's box here. The Deer-Bear-Elk-Moose thread is home to a lot of interesting debate. Some are simply better at open discussion than others.

[mwal]

There is no difference between hunting bear over a bait station vs bowhunter planting food plots same thing different quarry. Except it considered acceptable for deer. You are trying to condition a nocturnal animal to come by your stand so you can get a shot. Both are legal lets hunt. Anti love this in fighting my way is better or more pure of a hunt [PoorWordUsage]. We must stick together as long as it is legal.

Mwal

[MJ1657]

Anti love this in fighting my way is better or more pure of a hunt [PoorWordUsage]. We must stick together as long as it is legal.

Mwal

The last sentence of your message is so true. Well said!

[Random guy]

I'm pretty sure that next year the new rule that only allows 3 baits per hunter goes into effect along with some additional requirements for bear outfitters...any of those new rules gonna affect you Jonny?

Oh ya. It is going to be some big changes in bear guides and outfitters for 2012 and to be honest it is going to clean up the show a little. Classes, first aid, tighter reporting and a few other new laws to make sure everything is run as clean and professional as possible. I actually welcome all the changes but one.

The three baits per hunter makes good sense and will stop the mass baiting some use in exchange for skill or use to lock up entire regions BUT the way they want us to label, mark and manage those baits is borderline ridiculous. I get three baits per hunter until that hunter leaves camp then his three baits must be shutdown. I have several baits that can produce three bear a year or I could have a bad hunter screw up a bait for a few days and the bear never comes in for him. So am I supposed to just shut down active baits because Tony from Oshkosh went home and who cares about the second or third week guys or a guy that will hunt harder and not spook the bear off? Now let’s not forget another hunter from outside my camp can climb onto that bait and legally hunt it/take it over as long as he registers the bait before he hunts it but I or my clients cannot hunt it the remainder of the season. You can bet your paycheck those baits will be chemically destroyed and all bear ran off when the guides are forced to shut them down.

What is Greg going to think or how is he going to react when I take him to his bait he has hunted the last five times he has been with me but this time he can't? I would bet he is going to question why his baits are no good and he has to hunt someone else’s. What if the bait has a problem? The guide could just walk away from it and blame his client and claim it’s not his, why not it has someone else’s name on it.

I like the baits with my name on them as they are my responsibility and it’s my schedule with my clients. All the sign/shutdown law is going to do is create confusion and generate unregistered and hidden baits as they force guides to have to take drastic measures to ensure their hunters get a fair chance no matter if they show up first week or third week. I will admit I have got the feeling the last few years the state of Minnesota will not rest until they have eliminated all bear guides and furthermore destroyed the sales of nonresident bear tags. (Who do you think baits for most of the out of state guys? Guides do!)The state has yet to officially announce the actual changes to me as they will wait until we have all bought our licenses to say anything that may hurt sales but every time I call the DNR I get a different answer about the upcoming changes.

I will say somebody needs to pull their head out of their...sand box on that deal.

[Random guy]

You don't have to create the stench of a sugar beet processing plant to get their attention.

NO doubt! I have another guy that baits in my region with rotten meat and fish, everytime we meet on the gravel roads I have to stop to gag and wipe the tears out of my eyes. I could not work under those conditions.

[lichen fox]

Johnny...here is what I found on the new rules via the DNR HSOforum...I went to permanent rules and then it sent me to the MN legislative page...the 3 baits per hunter takes effect imediately...but it looks like the Guide requirements doesn't take effect until October 4th...

6232.3200 BAIT STATIONS AND GARBAGE DUMPS.

Subpart 1. Bait station restriction.

A. A person may not establish, service, maintain, or sign any bear bait station

prior to the Friday nearest August 14.

B. In order to establish, service, maintain, or sign any bear bait station, a person

must have a valid bear hunting license or be operating under the direction of a person with a valid bear hunting license.

C. No more than three bait stations may be placed at one time for each licensed

bear hunter. If a hunter wishes to establish a different bait station, one of the hunter's three existing bait stations must be removed. Each licensed bear hunting outfitter may establish up to three bait stations in addition to bait stations placed for licensed hunters.

1 REVISOR 6232.3500

6232.3500 BEAR HUNTING OUTFITTERS.

Subpart 1. Application for bear hunting outfitter and master bear hunting

outfitter licenses. An application for a bear hunting outfitter or master bear hunting outfitter license can be obtained from the License Center.

Subp. 2. Deadline for license issuance. A bear hunting outfitter or master bear

hunting outfitter license may not be issued after August 31 in any year.

Subp. 2a. Adding persons to a master bear hunting outfitter license.

A. A person may be added to a master bear hunting license through the License

Center.

B. The licensee may add additional persons to a master bear hunting outfitter

license at any time.

C. Any person listed under a master bear hunting license remains on that license

for the entire license year. No person may be substituted for a person listed under a master bear hunting outfitter license.

Subp. 3. Required reporting by bear hunting outfitters and master bear hunting

outfitters.

A. All licensed bear hunting outfitters and master bear hunting outfitters must

complete the report form provided with the license and return it to the specified address no later than ten days after the close of the bear season. Failure to submit this report or failure to provide all requested information may result in ineligibility for a bear hunting outfitter or master bear hunting outfitter license for the following bear season.

B. The report must show for each outfitter:

(1) the names and addresses of all hunters guided;

(2) the Minnesota DNR number of all hunters guided;

(3) the bear zones hunted;

(4) whether a bear was harvested;

(5) the date the bear was harvested; and

(6) the sex of the bear harvested.

C. Information required under item B, subitems (1) to (3), must be recorded on

the report form before any bear hunting activity takes place.

D. Information required under item B, subitems (4) to (6), must be recorded on

the report form within 24 hours of a bear being harvested by a guided hunter or within 24 hours of the completion of a hunt when a bear is not harvested.

Copyright ©2010 by the Revisor of Statutes, State of Minnesota. All Rights Reserved.

2 REVISOR 6232.3500

E. The records required under this subpart must be available for inspection by

the commissioner. The records must be preserved and available for three years after the expiration of the license.

Subp. 4. Eligibility requirements. To be eligible for a bear hunting outfitters license or master bear hunting outfitters license, an applicant must be at least 16 years of age and submit proof that the applicant:

A. is certified for standard first aid and CPR by the American Red Cross or

American Heart Association or through an equivalent course;

B. has completed a department-approved advanced hunter education/bear

hunting outfitter clinic;

C. is eligible to possess a Minnesota big game hunting license; and

D. has scored at least 70 percent on a written bear hunting outfitter exam,

administered by the commissioner.

This subpart is effective October 4, 2011.

[Random guy]

As I stated the new laws make sense and where needed as some guys made bait sites like paper dolls but when it gets down to brass tacks per the conservation officer the deal of whose name is on what bait and which baits are terminated will be a mess. It actually is forcing me to go from two baits per hunter as I have averaged for years to three baits per hunter. I will now be putting out more bait sites due to this law. Reason is bait site "A" is a good producer and I may take three bear for three hunters off of it over the course of the season as it has done in the past. Now instead of rotating guys across it I will have three baits crowded together. One will be baited heavy and two will be minimal amounts of bait. Then when hunter "1" leaves for the season bait site "A" will be shut down per the regulations and bait site "B" that is only yards away will become the primary bait site for hunter "2". When hunter “2” is done hunter “C” will go to the new primary bait site “3” just on the other side of the original site “A”. I even went as far as having my lawyer friend make sure this will be a legal process. As I long as keep the spacing correct it works. I can already see the conversation with the warden turning into an Abbott and Costello routine of "Who is on third".

For the self hunter it’s not a big deal as they can just shut one down and move to a better site with the new one; a self hunter is looking for one bear. With guides we have sites that are good multiple bear producers and just can’t shut them down without major consequence to our hunter success rate.

Luckily I spent time in the military and learned how to deal with multiple layers of government procedures and protocol.

[TooTallTom]

I'm almost totally ignorant when it comes to bear hunting, but it sounds like a bait site cannot be shared by two hunters? You couldn't just transfer "ownership" of the site from one hunter (who has tagged a bear and isn't hunting any more) to another hunter (who is still hopeful)? I guess the question is: do the three bait sites per hunter have to be three distinct/ discreet bait piles, or can they share?

Can you (as a guide) set up a bait site (or three) for a hunter any time after the legal baiting start date, regardless of when that hunter is coming to hunt it?

It just seems like, if the idea is to minimize the total number of bait piles in the woods, the DNR has screwed the pooch on this one. Which is totally shocking... I know they (usually) do their best, but they are a giant bureaucracy with all the clumsiness that entails.

[Musky Buck]

Explain Bear hunting, from what I hear, Mosquito's, lots of heat/sweat, if you get one it needs to be dealt with immediately, bit nerve racking in the dark especially for the bow crowd, without bait it would be highly unlikely harvest goals would ever be met and last I checked success rates haven't been real high as there is plenty of natural foods available to the bears in late august early september. Trailcams tend to show you exactly what you might have thought, often quite nocturnal and maybe they prefer to move in the coolest time of the given day. Good luck.