Homeowners insurance water damage coverage

[Tom7227]

After seeing the warnings about water damage in the news I decided to contact me agent to see what I had and what he would suggest. I don't have any flood risk but I was concerned about the water damage from leaking equipment or ice dams.

I was a bit surprised when he told me that I was paying $50 for $5,000 coverage. I don't remember asking for any special coverage and so I wasn't expecting to have to have paid anything for it. I have a pretty expansive policy and frankly I thought I was good to go with full replacement coverage as part of the standard deal.

He quoted me $125 for $25K and $150 for $50k. I went for the higher number mainly because I know 3 people who have had claims for leaking pipes and the costs went well above $40k in each case.

You may want to check into this and see if you want to pump things up.

[fish2live]

i was under the understanding that as long as the water damage isn't caused by a flood you should be covered.

[pureinsanity]

wow that is insane! 40K for leaking pipes? how many pipes did they have?????

Just removed all cast and replaced water lines with Pex and PVC for sewer and the cost was just under 4k? Granted we got a bit of a deal, and we did all the prep work so all the plumber had to do was install the pipes.

[BoxMN]

I think the bigger portion of water damage is the actual damage it causes non plumbing items... sheetrock, ceilings, flooring, carpeting, furniture, etc.

A friend contractor says that he makes the most $$ from water damage repairs, even in newer houses. He said it is waaaay more common than many would think. He has been turning off his water every weekend he leaves his house for the cabin, because he sees so much. I pull the fuse on the pump at cabin (so at most just the pressure tank full of water), but so far don't turn off water when I leave the house. But might start. He said it isn't from freezing lines either, just from good old leaks.

[Biggerfish]

i was under the understanding that as long as the water damage isn't caused by a flood you should be covered.

I thought the same.

Any agents out there that can clarify this.

[RiverFish]

Would weather related (ice dams, rain, floods, etc..) be different than internal (leaking pipes, dishwashers, clothes washer, etc...) as far as coverage?

[PurpleFloyd]

We just had this conversation with our agent last week. Up to this point we have had the same agent for about 20 years and I believe he lost interest in our policies. We asked him to come over and inspect our house and make sure we had the coverage we needed for things but we had a sewer backup last fall during the big rain and then discovered the coverage we had was only for the structure but the contents ( Furniture, dressers, computer desks, tv stands, subwoofers etc) were not covered. Now in talking to our new agent we could have had 25k of coverage for about 50 dollars a year.

You can get insurance for sump pump backup, sewer backup etc but for flood insurance you need a separate policy and it has a 30 day waiting period from the time you sign off on it.

And there is no coverage from any company from what I have been told to cover water coming in through the walls, up through cracks in the floor etc. Just FYI.

[Tom7227]

I have a correction.

The agent wrote back and indicated that what he was quoting was sewer backup and sump pump failure coverage. The full coverage homeowner policy has the coverage for the broken pipe, ice dam sort of things right in it. The one he was quoting was to cover stuff like what happened in Chanhassen last weekend where the water main broke and flooded the houses when the sewer system was overwhelmed.

[Powerstroke]

i was under the understanding that as long as the water damage isn't caused by a flood you should be covered.

This is incorrect. There are many water related issues that will not be covered by a general HO policy. You need to talk it over with your company.

Like was highlighted, the sewer backup in Chan was the perfect example. The city is not liable because there is no negligence and most HO policies don't cover sewer backups.

And to just hit another point, $40K is pretty easy to do if you get water in a finished basement and it damages all of the appliances down there such as a furnace or boiler, the water heater, washer/dryer etc. Add in furniture, A/V equipment or game room type stuff and you can accumulate quite a bill.

I work in city water/sewer and it kills you to see some of the damage and people are not properly insured or they are underinsured for their property.

[delcecchi]

This is incorrect. There are many water related issues that will not be covered by a general HO policy. You need to talk it over with your company.

Like was highlighted, the sewer backup in Chan was the perfect example. The city is not liable because there is no negligence and most HO policies don't cover sewer backups.

And to just hit another point, $40K is pretty easy to do if you get water in a finished basement and it damages all of the appliances down there such as a furnace or boiler, the water heater, washer/dryer etc. Add in furniture, A/V equipment or game room type stuff and you can accumulate quite a bill.

I work in city water/sewer and it kills you to see some of the damage and people are not properly insured or they are underinsured for their property.

The city isn't liable? That's government for you. If a private business had done something that wrecked your house they would be liable I bet.

That said, sewer backup coverage seems like a good idea.

[PurpleFloyd]

[MNice]

"The city isn't liable? That's government for you. If a private business had done something that wrecked your house they would be liable I bet."

The Cities insurance is the ones that won't cover, the city tried to convince the insurance co. but since everything was maintained properly, they deemed it an act of God.

[cm1977]

There are 2 different issues that guys are talking about so far. Water damage from backup and water damage from pipes or appliances. There is coverage available for both scenarios on a standard homeowners policy. The water damage from pipes or appliances is built in and most (check your policy) policies will pay for the resulting damage but not the cause of the damage. So if you have a leak from your washing machine, they are going to pay for damage it caused but not the issue with the washing machine. As for the backup, you can get this added on and it is going to cost you a little but is well worth it when you have a foot of standing water in your basement. But as mentioned, if it seeped in thru the walls your policy will most likely not respond.

[SkunkedAgain]

I just made an appointment with my insurance guy to have a review.

[delcecchi]

"The city isn't liable? That's government for you. If a private business had done something that wrecked your house they would be liable I bet."

The Cities insurance is the ones that won't cover, the city tried to convince the insurance co. but since everything was maintained properly, they deemed it an act of God.

Either the city is liable for their pipes breaking and wrecking peoples' houses and either they or their insurance company should pay or stuff happens too bad sorry about your house.

I am in the camp of it was the city's pipe, it broke and wrecked houses. It was not the homeowner's fault and God had nothing to do with it. It wasn't a storm or earthquake or volcano. It was a faulty pipe. The city was negligent by not having alarms in the manholes or whatever. Sort of like those idiots in St Paul that routed gas lines right through house drain lines and then didn't check.

[Powerstroke]

Alarms in the manholes?!? Nearly impossible. Faulty pipe? That wasn't proven.

The laws that protect gov't are the same that protect you. It is under negligence. Negligence means that you had to be aware of a defect and failed to address the issue. If the city is acting in good faith then they aren't negligent. It is an act of God because the city didn't cause the ground to move and break the pipe.

If this was a matter of lack of maintenance then the insurance would be paying and the lawyers would be involved for sure.

As I've been completely honest about, I work for a metro suburb in the water and sewer dept. I'll write more later, but I have to go.

[Powerstroke]

So, the city is acting within the bounds of the law. The insurance co. is making sure of that. The city could offer a deal to the homoeowners if they choose, but we all know that cities don't have any money right now. Not only is that evident in balancing their budgets every year but it also pertains to capital improvement projects, such as upgrading water and sewer infrastructure. The city cannot shoulder the cost alone and residents don't want to pay for assessments on their property taxes.

So about if its preventable, the only way I know of to test water main is through ultrasonic leak detection. This will only tell if pipes are leaking. It doesn't tell about the condition of the pipe, the soil its bedded in or the condition of the joints and bolts. Many cities have replacement plans and timelines in place to address this, but its usually in the ballpark of 50yrs or so. Cast iron and newer ductile iron will last that long without problems. There are places in Minneapolis with 100yr old water mains. Heck, they had wooden water mains for a long time.

So the water main broke. It happens during extreme temperature shifts and the ground shifts and the pipes are put under stress. My small suburb had had 5 leaks this winter and none of them happened until the warmup in late January. We had two leaks during the huge swings in daily temperature at the same time as the Chan leak and another this past weekend. Our neighboring city has had one almost every day for the last 3 weeks, but they are a much larger city and are even older than us. Its a seasonal issue and if you ask any city out there they will tell you the same thing. Its unpreventable.

The water main broke and overwhelmed the sanitary sewer. It was a 12" water main and I'm sure the sewer was only 8" since that's standard in residential areas. It happens all the time. Its never happened where I work (knock on wood) but we have had extreme sewer backups. Some we paid for and some we didn't. It just depends on the details and whether the problem was foreseeable and preventable.

The lawyers are getting smarter and are putting more pressure on cities to do more maintenance even if it's never been required before. Now we are required to remove roots from sewer lines regularly and have those lines video inspected. That requires lots of money and manpower. Guess who gets to pay for that? And when things need to be repaired or replaced? Nobody wants to pay for that either.

I'm not trying to take a side because I get both sides of the argument. I am a homeowner too. It just happens that I get to work for the side that everyone blames. If you want more info about your sewers in your neighborhood, call your public works. They will tell you lots of things you never wanted to know.

[delcecchi]

I just wonder if a design where if a water pipe breaks a bunch of houses get flooded isn't basically a poor design. I guess it is probably standard in that I think that is what they did in the street in front of me when hooking me up to city services, but it still seems like a poor way to do things. The engineers know the ground moves with temperature yet they designed a system that puts homes at risk? Winter is not an act of God.

How does the water get into the sanitary sewer from the water system? Is the sanitary sewer open inside the manhole?

[shorefisher]

To bad it happened but to blame the city is not the way to go as the city's money is your money. These things happen to pipes in the ground for a very long time (I am sure the city could build a new better system with all new alarms and such if everyone just paid the total due on there share of the bill when it came in the mail) It is kind of like the pipe's in your wall at home you have no idea when or if it will fail. What do you do to insure they do not fail? I had a pipe that froze in my home this winter should I put blame on the guy that built my home many years ago,the guy that put that pipe in, my self for not inspecting or mother nature for the cold weather. What we want and what we will pay for are not the same thing.

[PurpleFloyd]

I just wonder if a design where if a water pipe breaks a bunch of houses get flooded isn't basically a poor design. I guess it is probably standard in that I think that is what they did in the street in front of me when hooking me up to city services, but it still seems like a poor way to do things. The engineers know the ground moves with temperature yet they designed a system that puts homes at risk? Winter is not an act of God.

How does the water get into the sanitary sewer from the water system? Is the sanitary sewer open inside the manhole?

Have you ever dealt with Engineers on a municipal project?

There are a few things that are guaranteed such as their billing dept is the most competent staff in the company followed by their legal team and lastly the guys doing the actual engineering.

While cities are required to either have an on staff engineer if the town is large enough or to hire one in the case of a smaller town, they are never or at least rarely liable for the projects that they engineer to actually work and the liability for the system working is generally laid at the feet of the contractor you hire and their warranty is for one year. After that the city ( residents and property owners) is responsible for the maintenance and inspection and repairs to the system but there is no policy that insures the residents against failure of the system that is carried by the city.At least there are none that I am aware of.

[dougger222]

If a pipe were to break in your home causing water damage your insurance company will pay to repair the damages the water caused but WILL NOT replace or repair the pipe that broke, that's maintance.

As far as ice dams, the insurance company will pay to repair the interior and exterior damage caused by the leak but will rarely pay to remove the ice dam,. that's maintance.

A friend of mine had his concrete move up and break his vinyl siding on his home this Winter. He called his agent who put the claim in. The adjuster called him and asked what was going on so he told him. The adjuster said it was considered earth movement which is not covered under any home owners policy.

As far as rain causing the flood more than likely that would only be covered under flood insurance. A properly installed drain tile with sump pump system should get out most water along with proper grading around a home.

[Powerstroke]

Sanitary sewers are generally an open system. Recent mandates have required that sanitary sewers are more sealed to prevent outside water form getting in, however they cannot be sealed or else dangerous gasses would build up inside.

Water can get in through the manhole lid if it has holes, through the "chimney" of the manhole if it is not new enough to have been sealed with grout, through the service line of a house that happens to be near the water main break point, or through the actual sewer main itself through joints or maybe if the line was damaged with the break. This is how flood waters overwhelm sanitary systems whether its from a broken pipe or mother nature's wrath.

Just imagine the amount of force required to shift the ground and shear a pipe made of cast iron or ductile iron (cast iron with a concrete lining)? There are building codes for this. If the pipe was installed correctly then the rest is up to fate. Engineers design all sorts of thing on computer screens but that doesn't always work out in real life. Good luck trying to explain that to an engineer.

There are better products coming about every day, but so far they are unproven and expensive. Also, nobody wants to pay to have their roads torn up and have their public utilities replaced often. Nobody ever thinks of how the water and sewer infrastructure is working until its their house that is having a problem.

If you're really interested in how these systems work and how much it costs, talk to your local public works and your city counsel. Good luck.

[PurpleFloyd]

There are other ways for water to get in also. Most towns by now have inspected the homes to make sure there are no sump pumps connected to the sanitary sewer but there are some that have not gotten to that point yet.

Another way is from homes with an unfinished basement that leaks water and then that water goes down the floor drain into the sanitary sewer and in the rural areas it was no uncommon to have drainage tiles from fields and from the town in general connected to the sanitary sewer from the days of septic tanks.

We just put in a pond system in our town and the whole sewer system was televised 2 times to locate areas of INI and the homes were inspected for sump pump compliance and even with that we still get a huge influx of water into the system during a big rain. In fact during the 12 inch rain storm last year we went from 40,000 gallons through the system one day to nearly 700,000 2 days in a row to 500,000 the third day and then it dropped back to normal.Of course there was a small amount of water that did back up into houses including ours but all in all for the volume the pumps held up good.

[Powerstroke]

One more thing is the percentage of incidents compared to the number of customers is extremely low. The city I work for is only 4 sq. miles and we have about 3800 customers. When you consider that we have around 10 sewer backups a year that are the city's fault and less than 10 water main breaks a year you can see that it effects very few people. This is actually a very good ratio.

These numbers are perfectly acceptable for everyone until it is their house that is being affected. Then people wonder how this could happen, how it could've been prevented and why isn't someone throwing money at them for their inconvenience.

Also winter ground shifting is just as much an act of God as hail and tornados. Water mains don't break any more often then the pipes in your own house.

[delcecchi]

...

Just imagine the amount of force required to shift the ground and shear a pipe made of cast iron or ductile iron (cast iron with a concrete lining)? There are building codes for this. If the pipe was installed correctly then the rest is up to fate. Engineers design all sorts of thing on computer screens but that doesn't always work out in real life. Good luck trying to explain that to an engineer.

....

I don't have to explain it to an engineer. I are one. (old joke)

Of a different type for sure, but old enough to know that simulation and hardware are two different things. And sometimes stuff gets left out of the calculation and the 35W bridge falls down.

I guess I should have paid more attention when they were laying pipe in the street in front of my hours. I am pretty sure the sewer was plastic, but I don't remember what the water was.

It just seems to me that government ought to step up and take responsibility for damage caused by their systems malfunctioning.