careful where you park!

[Todd_J]

I'd also like to point out that these parking spaces offer no benefit during the winter season. Their intended purpose is for ease of dock access and boat launching, that benefit does not exist when the launch is frozen.

[croixflats]

Lesson learned give handicapped areas a wide birth. Ya, I know that extra twenty feet helps but what ya gonna do. Just gotta love the generalizations and assumptions just to get a parking spot or out of a ticket. You and the other guy assumed it was ok to park there. To me I see 2 handicapped signs on the corners of the front of the parking lot I would assume those in the middle are for the handicapped or for loading or off loading. Especially when there is a clear trail leading from that area. Why would anyone park in front of a trail.

Sorry I have no tolerance for people making excuses for parking in handicapped areas if they are not allowed to do so.

Again you just couldn't park somewhere else?

My opinion the CO was in the right and those didnt park there in the photo probably think so also.

[kirby18]

Do they have a quota they need to hit?

I don't think they have a quota ,they can write as many tickets as they want.

[shnelson]

Originally Posted By: shnelson

I'd also like to point out that these parking spaces offer no benefit during the winter season. Their intended purpose is for ease of dock access and boat launching, that benefit does not exist when the launch is frozen.

Then why are you using it?

These are judgment calls and I would not bring any of these sentiments up in court, as you mentioned. Don't make sweeping generalizations about folks who have mobility difficulties, no matter the climate. Remember these spots are for more than just users of wheelchairs. I'm sure there are more than a few that use ATV's and snowmobiles who would not appreciate your judgment or you speaking to their abilities.

That being said, you do have many things in your favor, namely 1) the snow in the parking lot that prevents full view of the paint markings, and 2) the designation of the sign.

Is there any notation on the ticket that states exactly where your vehicle was parked in relation to the sign? If there is, I see it being quickly dismissed. If there is not, you might need the CO there to "grill" him on your vehicles position. I'd like to see him taken to task on this.

[scotto477]

The question you need to point out to the judge, is this a legally marked handicap spot. take a pic of a tape measurement to the bottom of the sign. it doesn't look like its the correct height.

[scotto477]

This from mn statue

Subd. 2a. Parking space free of obstruction; penalty. The owner or manager of the

property on which the designated parking space is located shall ensure that the parking space and

associated access aisle are kept free of obstruction. If the owner or manager does not have the

parking space properly posted or allows the parking space or access aisle to be blocked by snow,

merchandise, or similar obstructions for 24 hours after receiving a warning from a peace officer,

the owner or manager is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of up to $500.

[shnelson]

scotto, I think I just fell in love with you. Can you send me a link to where you found that? Subd. 2a. comes up with a lot of google results!

nelshawn (at) gmail (dot) com

[cementhead21]

This from mn statue

Subd. 2a. Parking space free of obstruction; penalty. The owner or manager of the

property on which the designated parking space is located shall ensure that the parking space and

associated access aisle are kept free of obstruction. If the owner or manager does not have the

parking space properly posted or allows the parking space or access aisle to be blocked by snow,

merchandise, or similar obstructions for 24 hours after receiving a warning from a peace officer,

the owner or manager is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of up to $500.

according to this ,then the park service or the dnr who ever is to maintain this launch area needs to be fined also..

[Big Dave2]

The sign needs to be 60" from the ground to the bottom of the sign.

There used to be a difference between accessible spots and Van accessible sites(pre. 2007). It used to be that a site that was not marked as "van" accessible only needed a 5 foot loading isle. Since 2007 this has changed and now all accessible sites require an 8' loading isle.

I thought I was on to something to help you out but I guess not.

[croixflats]

There we go, I don't mind part of my license fee to pay for someone's mistake. Just because he wont own up to it.

[scotto477]

169.346, Minnesota Statutes 2007

[shnelson]

There we go, I don't mind part of my license fee to pay for someone's mistake. Just because he wont own up to it.

I'm pretty sure I pay those same license fees. Own up to it? I would gladly plead guilty and pay the fine if that truly was the case and I felt as if I was in the wrong. If you want to talk about wasted fees, I'm pretty certain our money paid toward taxes and conservation could be put to much better use than policing a non-posted and snow covered loading zone for a boat launch that is out of season. How about they focus on keeping the intoxicated individuals from stumbling off the ice and getting in their vehicles to drive home instead?

[Neighbor_guy]

People parking in a Handycap spot who should not be there is one of those things that rubs me the wrong way.

You made a mistake, so did the guy next to you, you learned from it, albeit the hard way, and wont do it again, move on.

To say that you shouldn't get a ticket because the snow is not plowed and therefore a handycaped person is not going to go fishing or use the spot is rediculous, I hope you dont use that as your excuse in coart. They make all terrain, all weather chairs that allow people to get out doors no matter the conditions. They had a prime example at the Ice fishing show, it had tracks like a tank, pretty cool. (tank chair)

an example...

I'd bet a grand and my best laker rods that had you had a handycap sticker, tag, or plate we would not be having this discusion. Unless it was to complain about the guys who parked in the handycap spot at XY-Lake.

Sometime's we need to look at things from the other side. Often times we are to quick to say..."well they werent going to use 'em anyways, because, blah blah blah".... I am guilty of thinking it sometimes too. But I can tell you right here right now, if I was in an accident, or had a meddical issue tonight, next week, next year, there are at least two people on this board who would make D@m sure that I got out on that ice, weather by chair or straped to a sled. Those spots were put there for a reason. Think about it.....

[riverrat565]

I'm sorry but I think this site has taken a turn for the worst. The comments to topics like this one are just crazy, like admit you were wrong and say the guy was talking badly about handicaped people. In my opion is not at all what was happening he is just asking if we think he messed up or what, i think NO where he parked was fine and the CO was having a bad day. i have seen this type of comments on other topics latly and think it is really sad. I hope this site goes back to what it was when i first found it, nice people talking fishing with good info. Maybe it's the crappy economy or the holidays, but people are just plain mean sometimes and that, my friends, is a shame.

[PierBridge]

Different strokes for different folks.

I thinks its been a pretty good debate with both sides of the dilemma being represented quite well!

I kind of hope he wins but expect him to pay between $75 and $140 in fines when its all said in done.

[DTro]

Common sense (along with the pictures) dictates that both of those vehicles intended to leave an open space for the handicapped spot.

Now if they are going to be enforcing it that strictly, then they also need to maintain the spots.

For those of you arguing the side of the handicapped folks, you should then also be outraged that those spots are not maintained.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Hey, I know that access. And having fished there more than a few times during summer months, I know that whole area is handy cap parking only. I think this is a live and learn type situation. Should it be maintained better? Yes.

[Pat K]

Not all handicapped people have wheel chairs, walkers or crutches. People with heart problems or respertory problems also use these spaces. If you were parked on the same side of the Dodge as the CO is in the picture it doesn't look like there was room for another vehicle to park in front of the handicapped sign.

If it was me I would pay the fine.

[McGurk]

The more I think about it, I think it should be fought in court so the situation is resolved in some regard, whether the fine is dropped or not. The signs and area should be checked for compliance, and by the looks of the access better plowing should be done by someone.

As it looks from my interpretation of all of your pictures, the INTENT of this area is for handicapped parking for (2) individuals, and the rest of the area between left open for ease of access for the vehicles and also for trail access to the other area up the hill. It's obvious from all of your pictures that there is a used trail that adjoins the area between the 2 marked spots. No parking should happen there.

I've read all of these posts up to now, and I do think you have a case. But, (there's always a but) if I were to drive up to this area and see this space open, I wouldn't park there due to the trail's location and blocking others access to it. Also, I think we've all driven to enough Targets, Home Depots, and Gander Mountains to know there is an obvious layout to their parking lots with reference to the handicapped spots and door locations. They get the choice spots, and they need to be marked and maintained to work adequately for persons in need of the easy access.

I will say this: it bothers me to no end to see an F350, Hummer H2, or similar "climb up and in" vehicle with Handicapped plates parked in one of these spots. If they can get in and out of these vehicles, they can most likely park elsewhere and let someone else in more need use it. Are there exceptions? Yes, but I stand by my generalization. Hate me if you will.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Good luck with this! I hope you win, because I think you have a very solid case. There clearly should be signage stating that that is a Handicap loading zone. There is not, so how are you to know. The general public are not expected to be mind readers.

I think the CO was an (poor woor usage) with nothing better to do. There WAS a better way to handle this!

If anything, your fine should be cut in half.

Ignore the naysayers here, and plead your case! Good luck and keep us posted with the outcome.

[Chef]

Anyone else think this is another way to fund the tax revenue shortages? I think the days of having fines like this absolved or reduced are a thing of the past.

Right or wrong, the revenue is needed to feed the machine.

[cwmn]

From looking at your pix it's is plain to me that you should not have parked there. You may want to pay up because a judge may get mad when he sees your pix.

Sorry just my opinion seems pretty obvious to me.

[croixflats]

Shnelson good luck if you do fight it. I now do agree you should have been given a warning. Keep in mind if you go to court and if you get a lesser fine or not, a service fee will be added to it, I think another 75 to a 100 bucks if the judge does not throw the charge out. That just may depend on the county though. I know I got hit for $85 service fee for failure to display tabs in Washington county. And that was plead down from failure to have registration and the truck was sitting in my yard.

[bikeoutback]

I say it's up to a judge to interpret guilty or innocent based on the law, ALL of the law including proper markings, maintenance, widths.... They get paid to do that stuff not the general public. Worse case you plead guilty with an explanation and go over it with the judge. As a citizen of this country you have the RIGHT to your day in court and to plead your case.

To the obviousness to handicapped spots and loading zones may or may not be true. Many of the restaurants and stores in Apple Valley I know of don't follow the choice spots for handicapped rule by any means. Alot of them put them around the corner now from the entrance cause that's where they put the ramp. One such place has all 4 choice spots directly in front of the door as regular spots and the handicapped down from those. I can say I probably would have parked where you did also and I'd be going to court and arguing the same thing.

[PierBridge]

I think one is certain you won't ever park in a Handi-Zone or Handi loading zone again.

I'm guessing the judge isn't going to be too impressed with your maintain the area defense which I find a stretch to say the least, but if he does let me know I just drove by a speed limit sign that had snow on it that was blocking the MPH for the area. I'd like an out if I ever get caught breaking the law!

Good Luck!