Poached Buck

[Musky Buck]

I must be a rare dude then as I don't need a pat on the back, but I didn't break any of those mabr. My grandpa's were to thorough, they would never stand for anything illegal and if you even thought it, it could mean a whipping. But, the one I did break was the sight tagging law. Where I hunt, way off the road in wet tamarac swamps, we tried to sight tag only to have those paper tags get shredded while dragging, we can't use an ATV, it's a by hand deal and it's not easy as we only shoot mature bucks which often times are fairly large. So we had to decide, is it better to lose or have the tag destroyed or get the animal to the road so it has a tag. We called the CO and he brought us replacement tags, after a few years of that he said look at that rat hole you guys have to use, how about tagging them when you are 50 yards from the road. It's water all the way and the draggers have to wear hipboots and those with shaky hearts can't help at all, not worth a heart attack. There are tons of guys like me and you out in the woods and on the lakes that we can't have a successful outing if the rules aren't followed. I was lucky to have 2 strict grandpa's that knew each other and had the same code of conduct, which trickled down to us all, they provided the leadership that was fair and just for all of us and with them there were"no exceptions", bless there hearts.

[Musky Buck]

I think I see the picture clearer now, we weren't governed by the DNR as much as our own family saw to it that we all played the same game. The DNR puts out the rules, but it's up to parties and the individual to follow them, growing up with you never break the rules from an early age on is what molded me as I sit here today. Strong family support from the start is crucial, no wonder as family has taken a back seat in many households that we have quite a few who didn't receive the message about treating out resources and regulations with the respect they deserve. Better yet, after receiving the message putting it into practice proving to your elders that you are applying the message. My grandpa once said, I asked him about a neighbor of his who got caught with an overlimit of fish, he said you are supposed to get more satisfaction from obeying the law then you do from breaking it and that I can remember that from 1979 like he spoke it today, man that was 30 years ago.

[mabr]

So then, mabr, since we all probably broke some law somewhere, somehow, and sometime (and that's probably true) then does that mean we have no right to say a thing? In that case since every government is made of up those same unlawful citizens, every law, every statute, every rule, and every precedent ever made is invalid and we do not have to live according to the laws of our land because none of us, no not one, is righteous enough to pass the judgement.

I think you have misinterpreted the quotation you referenced.

Bob, I very well may have misinterperated that quote. I do not want to get in a battle over bible and interpretations. That was not the intent at all! But quite a few on here have put the noose around the guys neck already. I'm glad im not in his shoes. BUT giving my question and what I know i have done I very well could be considered to be (in some peoples eyes) just as bad.

I'm so conservitive and have such a strong belief in the things you questioned me on that it would make most on here sick. Yes we all have that right!!!!! And I encourage all to express that right.

Please guys, Im in no way condoning his actions or your rights to jump on the band wagon or voice your opinion. I guess in a way I was asking (to all) are you any better than him if you have broke any of the laws I mentioned. How much is that 1/2 inch short/over walleye worth off of Mileacs, or that 1 over the limit. A deer to my neighbor isnt worth much, but pull a few extra walleyes out of his favorite lake and he's gonna make the to call to the CO.

[Musky Buck]

Thing is we are talking about a few deer and an exceptional trophy, what number was this dude on, sure it's speculating, but who knows how many he has taken illegally. Most drunk drivers I doubt it's there first time driving drunk just like I'd have to guess most illegal deer hunters it's likely it's not the first time they violated. This guy could be what some need to rethink there illegal ways. But, it certainly is time to drop it and he'll get what he deserves.

[mabr]

I think I see the picture clearer now, we weren't governed by the DNR as much as our own family saw to it that we all played the same game. The DNR puts out the rules, but it's up to parties and the individual to follow them, growing up with you never break the rules from an early age on is what molded me as I sit here today. Strong family support from the start is crucial, no wonder as family has taken a back seat in many households that we have quite a few who didn't receive the message about treating out resources and regulations with the respect they deserve. Better yet, after receiving the message putting it into practice proving to your elders that you are applying the message. My grandpa once said, I asked him about a neighbor of his who got caught with an overlimit of fish, he said you are supposed to get more satisfaction from obeying the law then you do from breaking it and that I can remember that from 1979 like he spoke it today, man that was 30 years ago.

Musky Buck , you can ride in my boat anytime. I trully wish i had that type of up bringing. My family were hunters, Dad not to big into it and he passed before i really got into it big time. But you are so right, the little things are where it starts. I remember this to this day. My uncles deer hunting,( i was like 6 or 7) back before anywhere had doe days or tags. younger uncle (first time hunting) shot a huge doe. Older uncle scolded him up and down, BUT they took the deer. snuck it out after dark. That how alot of people justify it. Your fortunate my friend! Most never had that. My hats off to you and your family.

Oh by the way, You no longer have to tag that buck until you get it to the truck for the exact reason you mentioned. Ill find the page in the book and post it.

[mabr]

Musky Buck, Page 66 #2 in regs,

LOL also if you rode in my boat you wouldnt need to be worried about the CO checking us!!!!

[Musky Buck]

Just the same I'd take you anytime muskie or walleye fishing. Co checking you ? You got that 300 merc or something lol, my 60 4 stroke merc wouldn't outrun much on my 1660 classic tiller. lol. I'm glad they changed that tagging law, it's tough enough at times on dry soil, I liked the old school early 80's metal tag that locked when closed. I guess I'm either lucky to have belt whipping grandpa's or others are less fortunate to not have had to toe the line the way I had to, when you start out deer hunting at age 13 like it used to be A. You can't drive where you need to go and the B. is you rely on adults to help you out so I had zero choice but to follow their lead. Now 25 years later, I'm glad I did because I can look at the antlers on my wall and know they were lawfully taken, I have a brutal conscience that beats me up and down, grandpa helped beat some of it into me lol and I love them both for the lessons I learned or they learned me. lol

[Chef]

I wonder if our alleged Poacher has been on here reading these comments.

I wonder what's going through his mind...

[LightningBG]

Lets look on the bright side...

For all we know, this deer could have ran out in the road the very next night. Some 16 yr old girls driving her Miata blasts the deer. Car explodes into a million pieces. Girl doesn't make it.

Maybe, just maybe, God willed him to take this deer and save that girls life. Sacrificing his reputation for her life. Maybe.

[BobT]

Musky Buck, Page 66 #2 in regs,

LOL also if you rode in my boat you wouldnt need to be worried about the CO checking us!!!!

I don't worry about the CO checking me anyway or anytime. I've been checked by Jeff around here so many times that we are on a first-name basis. I was checked twice on the same day by two different COs while ice fishing. I bought my shelter license that day since it was the first time out that winter. It also happened to be the last Saturday of the walleye season. That following spring Jeff swung by my boat on three consecutive outings on Osakis. What are the odds? Last winter he stopped by and visited with me on a little lake about 2 miles from my home called Guerney Lake. I was surprised he even bothered with that little wide spot in the Sauk River. I was checked by two COs once while goose hunting. I don't dare do anything wrong and neither does anyone that is with me.

[jkcmj]

For awhile I was pretty disgusted with this post, but have found it very interesting. I can tell you that part of what is good about this country is the ability to debate, and look at all sides of an equation before anything is settled. Sometimes you won't change someones mind on a issue, but plant a seed so they think before doing it again. Eventually people will come around on most game laws if they see the value for the animal population and for the hunting community at large.

I hope that our friend in Cannon Falls does see and take time to read this post, it may do him some good.

Now if they start down the sterilization road in this state, I may have to put on my robin hood costume

[mabr]

Bob, I should have clarified what I meant when I said to Musky Buck, he wouldnt have to worry about a CO checking us.( If only I could express what I mean in writting id stay out of alot of trouble) It wasnt that I would be faster or they dont check me. I meant that there wouldnt be any concern of finding anything illegal in my boat, freezer, truck or home.

I was checked twice on the water this past summer, once last deer season and I have to say Our CO's are the best Ive ever run across anywhere in the country and Ive been checked by alot of them in my travels. Great group of guys and gals if anyone ever asks me.

[BobT]

Quote:

If only I could express what I mean in writing I'd stay out of a lot of trouble

I understand completely!

[delcecchi]

In Minnesota back in the 60's there wasn't any of this buck tag doe tag nonsense. DNR said it doesn't matter.

Then the DNR changed their mind. Suddenly shooting a doe was verboten. Now there are some places and people who think shooting the wrong kind of buck is bad and you should shoot does instead.

And you are reefing on the uncles who kept a doe instead of either wasting it or turning the kid in? What year was this?

Please.

[broken_line]

you can look the sunrise or the sunset on this story.. im agreeing with LightningBG, it still doesnt make it right on the guys part..

but it could have happened.

[Musky Buck]

I know what you meant mabr, some can't see the forest only trees and some see the trees and never the forest. I knew you meant you follow what rules there are for a given season of fishing and hunting. After reading cuffs and collars, I wish the CO's didn't have to police so called adults so much. It blows me away that someone can hold there head up high when they had to cheat to get a desired result generally selfishness is 1 of the top reasons. 3 Examples. Wheel of fortune, are the 2 losers genuinely happy for the winner? Casino's, are you genuinely happy when someone next to you gets a jackpot? Mature buck, are you genuinely happy for them or do you wish it were you holding those antlers ? The poacher from this thread seems to have a me, me, me and we'll never know how many deer or other species including fish that he wiped out. Going to be tough for those locals to muzzleload when the deer they've been dreaming about is belly up already. Just the hope that buck is maybe around I bet made those locals jump outta bed when the alarm clock sounded off. I bet they wake up a bit slower now.

[candiru]

Was this deer taken with a gun? Hardly a "gray" area. From the Star Trib:

If the world-record eight-point buck was not taken with a bow in Goodhue County, as first reported, more charges could be filed.

Department of Natural Resources enforcement officials now believe that the world-record eight-point buck poached this fall in Goodhue County was killed with a firearm, not a bow, according to sources familiar with the agency's investigation.

Testing of the animal's hide points to a firearm killing, said one source close to the investigation.

Enforcement officials also are weighing whether the big buck was killed near the town of White Rock in Goodhue County, as earlier believed, or instead might have been poached with a rifle or shotgun, perhaps from a rural Goodhue County road, the source said.

The firearms season wasn't open when the animal was killed.

The DNR said last week that Troy Alan Reinke, 32, of Cannon Falls said he killed the buck with his bow on Halloween evening. Reinke told the DNR that earlier this fall he also had killed a smaller buck and a doe with his bow, officials said, failing to tag either.

Reinke could legally kill only one deer with his bow, and his failure to tag the first two rendered the trophy buck poached. The DNR said it confiscated meat from the three deer from Reinke's home and also took the big buck's antlers.

The DNR wouldn't confirm whether its investigators have found gunpowder or similar residue on the buck's cape. Assistant Goodhue County attorney Dave Grove said Wednesday that he has spoken to the DNR about its investigation, but that conservation officers haven't given him test results confirming a firearm poaching of the deer.

If he receives such results, Grove said, "I would have to review [the information] to see if the charges would have to be amended."

The antlers of the big buck are believed to be the highest-scoring eight-point whitetail rack ever taken anywhere by a bow hunter -- or would have been, had the animal been killed legally.

Reinke has been charged with 13 misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors and faces fines of $2,000 or much more, as well as jail time, if convicted. He could also lose his hunting privileges.

According to a complaint filed in Goodhue County, Reinke told DNR conservation officers Tyler Quandt and Kevin Prodzinski that he killed the buck just before dark on Halloween evening, and that his cousin Matt Pientenka and Pientenka's girlfriend helped get the big deer to Reinke's house.

Reinke told the officers that he butchers his own deer and that he took the massive buck -- which reportedly field-dressed at almost 270 pounds -- to a local taxidermist the next day, intending to have the head and antlers mounted.

The taxidermist "caped" the deer in preparation for mounting and the animal's hide was stored in the taxidermist's freezer. It's that hide that investigators have studied to determine whether the animal might have been killed by a firearm.

Court records show Reinke has been convicted of illegal alcohol consumption, gas theft, marijuana possession, traffic offenses, fighting and domestic assault. The DNR also previously cited him for fishing with an extra line and, separately, issued him a written warning for not carrying a fishing license.

A person who answered the phone at Reinke's home Wednesday said he was unavailable. His first court appearance will be in December

[Musky Buck]

Boy, you never know who is hunting right next to ya, what kind of loose cannon might be toating a 30-06. Be safe everyone if you have to approach or encounter someone in our woods and fields.

[certified jumbo]

wow!!!!!

this whole deal is really unfortunate. there are no winners in this one.

the other bad thing is, this activity is happening all over the place.

i agree with you musky buck, just be careful out thier and follow the laws whether you agree with them or don't.

cj

[Musky Buck]

It's also too bad that law breakers get more attention than law abidder's, don't give a black eye to all of us because there are far more good guys than bad, the information age is here, been here and will continue.

[CANOPY SAM]

mabr:

I liked your original post. I believe the quote is actually, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." And hearing this all of the pharisees and sadducees walked away. These folks obviously got the point.

The reason this story raises such intense emotion is the fact that a potential world record animal was taken illegally. But I hear your point loud and clear, and I think everyone on board here should understand.

According to the scripture, in God's eyes all sins are equal. So just getting a little tingly down below while watching a Victoria's Secret commercial on TV is just as sinful as murdering your neighbor in cold blood - at least in God's eyes.

Taking a few walleyes in the morning, eating them for lunch, then going back out and catching, and keeping your full daily limit is actually poaching. Some might call it "soft poaching", but it is still poaching none-the-less.

In practical terms, this animal was only a deer. We have millions of them in our state. But this animal was beyond exceptional. A true diamond in the rough. An eight-point buck that perhaps may never be rivaled again. Or is it?

Does this justify setting a new precedent for this case? I can't answer that. But it all depends on how much we value a particular resource. Obviously, if someone offered $250K for this buck, as was stated earlier, our society, or at least part of our society, has raised the intrinsic value of big antlers to an awfully lofty perch.

How do we defend this resource when there is so much importance, so much monetary value placed on such a rare prize? I don't think it can be defended. At least not with the enforcement resources we currently have.

The reference to Cuffs and Collars above is extremely pertinent. I marvel at how often people break the law over such trivial rewards. How people justify "bending" the rules to get just a little bit more. And this publication only illuminates the few out there that get caught.

I confess that I've both knowingly, and unknowingly broken the law in my lifetime. I admit that I've made bad judgement calls, and poor decisions. I have sinned, and will no doubt sin again. But I also believe whole-heartedly in many of the perspectives posted in this thread about justice, and fair trial. And I'd like to add - forgiveness.

It wasn't so terribly long ago that cattle rustlers were hanged for their offense. Is a really big set of antlers worth any more than a prize steer or two? In my humble opinion, No. But I believe we've risen above the day of hanging people for such trivial crimes.

I know it sucks that none of us were priviledged enough to bag this deer, but that dissappointing fact doesn't allow us the right to publicly rip this guy apart.

MuskyBuck was raised in a manner that has been all but forgotten by modern society. That, I believe, is the real tragedy in all of this. The moral and ethical center of our culture has erroded to the point where we will likely never see it recover. Where cheating, dishonesty, and disloyalty is so meshed with our everyday lives that young people can rarely see the difference between right and wrong anymore, nor do they care.

I like the post earlier about ramping up enforcement for season opening dates - fishing, hunting, whatever. Our federal and state officials cannot possibly oversee such a vast geographic area, and it's extremely unlikely that they will earmark additional funds in the future to do so.

Perhaps we should develop, right now, a task force of volunteers, a neighborhood watch so-to-speak. Who would be on-board with volunteering time to help protect our natural resources? How many others could you recruit to do the same? Would placing 100, 200, or a 1000 more public citizens in the field to "police" our activities help to curb this type of behavior?

I also firmly believe that greatly increasing fines and penalties for game infractions would go a long way toward reducing the rate of game and fish crimes. Why not make paying for the crime so expensive that one would never even consider doing it in the first place?

[mabr]

Thanks Canopy Sam, Musky Buck, Trigger and all the others that understood the point i was trying to make.

All we can do as outdoorsman is try and share our experiences with others and hope that it sinks in.

This guy deserves "everything" he gets for taking this great deer. Hopefully those who follow the story will learn from it.

Guys and Gals there is a wealth of information on here, listen to it. Read your regulation book, follow that gut feeling you have when you know its not right. If you dont, well your the one who has to live with it. And believe me there will come a time when you will look back and think "MAN I WISH I HADNT DONE THAT". Because you know how you got it and believe me you will NEVER forget "HOW" that so called trophy was taken.

[FISHINGURU]

By DENNIS ANDERSON, Star Tribune

The suspect in the Goodhue County poaching of a world-record eight-point whitetail buck now says he found the deer dead and did not kill it with a bow, as he initially told Department of Natural Resources conservation officers.

Troy Alan Reinke, 32, of Cannon Falls, was re-interviewed by the DNR after studies of the giant deer's hide determined that the animal had been killed by a firearm, said conservation officer Tyler Quant, of Red Wing.

During the second interview, Reinke said he found the deer dead, killed by someone else. At first, he said he killed the deer with his bow while hunting on Halloween.

After making that statement, Reinke was charged with 13 misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors for poaching that buck, as well as two other deer, a doe and a smaller buck.

He was licensed to kill only one deer. Failing to tag either of the smaller animals rendered all three illegally taken, according to a complaint filed in Goodhue County.

DNR officials said they don't think the animal was killed where Reinke claimed it was. Officers have interviewed a cousin of Reinke's and the cousin's girlfriend, who say they helped lift the deer into Reinke's pickup. That location is near where a landowner reported hearing a shot and seeing a vehicle drive away, according to a source familiar with the investigation. The pair told DNR officers they weren't with Reinke when the deer was killed, but they responded to his request for help.

When the cousin and girlfriend arrived, the animal appeared to them to be legally tagged, according to the DNR, and they told officers they believed Reinke had killed it with a bow.

No charges are expected against the two, Quant said.

The Goodhue County attorney's office is considering whether to amend the 13 charges against Reinke to include two additional gross misdemeanors, based on his second statement to conservation officers.

[FISHINGURU]

The firearms season was closed in October, and the new charges would stem from possessing a deer during a closed season.

Without a bullet or slug and a firearm to match one or the other to, it might be difficult to prove Reinke killed the buck, according to the DNR.

The case has sparked outrage in part because the deer, if legally taken, might have been the highest-scoring eight-point whitetail ever registered by Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett, which chronicle trophy big-game animals.

Reinke is due in court Dec. 10. If convicted, he could be assessed $2,000 in restitution and fines totaling in the thousands, as well as possible jail time.

Reinke has earlier convictions for gas theft, marijuana possession and fighting. He is currently on probation for domestic assault and could face probation violations if convicted of new charges.

Anyone with information about the case is asked to call the DNR TIP (turn in poachers) hot line at 1-800-652-9093.

[B@ssDoctor]

Well, he should be safe now!! From Kare 11

RED WING, Minn. -- A man suspected of poaching a record eight-point whitetail buck in Goodhue County is changing the story he told to Department of Natural Resource investigators.

Troy Alan Reinke initially told the DNR he killed the deer with a bow and arrow while hunting on Halloween.

The DNR went back to Reinke after finding fragments in the animal's hide, which confirmed the buck had been killed by a firearm. The Star Tribune now reports that the 32-year-old Cannon Falls man says he found the deer after someone else killed it.

Reinke is charged with 13 misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors for poaching the buck, as well as two other deer. Reinke could legally kill only one deer during the season.

Goodhue County prosecutors have charged Reinke with 13 counts of illegally killing all three deer. They will review the additional information and decide whether to file additional charges.