Northern MN Deer Population

[MarkK76]

I am hunting public ground in northern MN for the first time. I’ve heard the predators are doing a number on the deer up there. Is that true? What is the greatest threat to the deer herd in Northern MN?

[Jameson]

Winter

[HarmonH]

For sure harsh winters

[picksbigwagon]

now that is funny right there (the winter comment)....... Predators (including humans) are more prevelant up north but have not decimated the deer herd. I think the wolves will move the deer more but they had not irradicated the deer herd up there by any means

[DinnerPail]

I agree with the winter as stated above. We have not seen a hard winter for several years. You'll see a big difference once we have one.

[picksbigwagon]

that will afffect the herd statewide, not just up North, a harsh winter in SE MN will get it back to lottery deer seasons again like it was in the 90's

[Gofishleech]

Bonus & management tags

[pikerliker]

Mark I have hunted the northwoods since the early 80's and people always want to blame wolves for not seeing deer. I have had some of my best years up there in years when I've heard wolves howling in the area. Harsh winters are much more likely to give you a big drop in population. Also where I hunt (Bovine TB area) there have been liberal numbers of deer that can be taken and sharp shooters killing several hundred deer each winter after the season closes (going 3 years in a row now) that will put a big dent in what I will see this season. It's kind of a bummer but I guess they want to stop it from spreading to the rest of the state.

~piker

[Bear55]

One or two bad winters can do some serious damage to the herd, wolves and hunters aren't nearly as effective. Duringa bad winter the wolves also have pretty easy hunting, but most of the time the deer they catch weren't going to make it through the winter anyway.

If we were to get back to back bad winters like back in the late 90's you can expect a good 5 years for the herd to recover, even longer if the harsh winters continue.

[jerkbait]

Mark I have hunted the northwoods since the early 80's and people always want to blame wolves for not seeing deer. I have had some of my best years up there in years when I've heard wolves howling in the area. Harsh winters are much more likely to give you a big drop in population. Also where I hunt (Bovine TB area) there have been liberal numbers of deer that can be taken and sharp shooters killing several hundred deer each winter after the season closes (going 3 years in a row now) that will put a big dent in what I will see this season. It's kind of a bummer but I guess they want to stop it from spreading to the rest of the state.

~piker

I hunt in the same area and yes it is by far tougher to find deer there. Last winter up here was a fairly tough winter and long for the deer. Most of the does up here only have 1 fawn with them this summer and fall. Very rarely do I see twins this year. I remember the to winters 95-96 and 96-97 after those 2 winters 70% of the deer herd was lost because of the hard winters. So I think winters can be the hardest on deer and it does make it easier for the wolves to take them down.

[Jameson]

I am hunting public ground in northern MN for the first time. I’ve heard the predators are doing a number on the deer up there. Is that true? What is the greatest threat to the deer herd in Northern MN?

Winter.....and last winter was more severe in some spots than others. The public land areas I have hunted the last several years up north has way fewer deer this year. Two years ago the area was about peaked for high deer numbers. A year ago the deer numbers were down, but still plenty around. Last winter was a tough one in that area. Deer sightings were way down for our group grouse hunting this fall. The area switched from managed to lottery. Due to the low deer numbers, and other opportunities none of our group will be deer hunting up north this year. Good luck to you in your hunt up north. Winter is the biggest threat. Second would be man. Either by issuing too many tags, or too few, or by stopping the logging, or by doing things to spread diseases.

[lakevet]

Winter is greatest threat. Winters effect is worsened if there is lack of good habitat, especially thermal cover. Ideal is cedar swamps, but deer numbers have been maintained higher than long term historical average so cedar is not regenerating. Northern Michigan is having the same problem.

lakevet

[Muskie456]

Not only Harsh winters but wet cold springs when the fawns are dropping. Spring of 07 killed a lot of fawns. I think we are seeing some of that now.

[bogwalker]

When we had a thriving deer population it was rare to see timber wolf sign. Timber wolf sign is abundant now and there are fewer deer than I have seen in years. I think there might be a pattern here. The tough winters kill deer in large part because deep snow, especially deep crusted snow, makes it easier for wolves to catch deer. This year timber wolves were feeding on bear baits like never before. Many domestic dogs have been killed this summer by wolves which indicates competition or perceived competition for food. We also have bobcat, lynx and cougar. It may not be just wolves but they are a significant factor.

[HeviShot]

Preaty sure Bog Walker hit her right on the nose with the wolves. I have over 400 pics from the bear season to back him up.

[HeviShot]

Teach me how to post pics on this sight and I will show.

[delta dude]

Look at this year. We hunt area 107. Last few years it was any deer and there were bonus tags. Last winter was a tough one up there. Over 100 inches of snow so this year we are back to antlerless permits and only 500 of them at that. Just shows how the Northern herd can be shrunk by just one bad winter.

[BobT]

MN total estimated deer harvest (archery, firearms, muzzleloader). I read this from a bar graph so I am estimating the numbers a little based on the graph.

Data obtained from the MNDNR, Division of Fish and Wildlife.

1992 – 245,000

1993 – 205,000

1994 – 195,000

1995 – 220,000

1996 – 155,000

1997 – 145,000

1998 – 155,000

1999 – 225,000

2000 – 215,000

2001 – 220,000

2002 – 220,000

2003 – 275,000

2004 – 270,000

2005 – 255,000

2006 – 270,000

2007 – 255,000

MN estimated wolf population.

Data obtained from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

1989 – 1500 – 1750

1998 – 2450

2004 – 3020

2008 – 2922

Doesn’t look to me like the deer harvest is a reflection of the number of wolves. To the contrary, the deer harvest since 2000 seems to be slightly better than it was during the nineties when wolf numbers were lower. Also, the wolf population seems to have stabilized at about 3000 for at least the past 4 or 5 years.

Naturally wolves will take advantage of a good thing. We do too. When the winters are tough, predators fair well. When the winters are not so tough, prey fair well. Back-to-back tough winters will deplete the prey species causing a decline in predators. It's all part of the cycle of things.

[Bear55]

I have to agree BobT, there has been a flood of guys complaining about Wolves this year. The wolves are expanding their territory further south so more people are running into them. Suddenly the wolves are chasing all the deer out of "their" area and "decimating" the herd. Basically these people have never hunted with wolves before and they tend to overreact to their presence. Yes wolves eat deer, yes the hunting could be poor for a few days after the wolves move through. No the wolves are not decimating your herd. Welcome to deer hunting with wolves, some of us have been doing it for a long long time and guess what, we still shoot and see deer every year.

Now I am not saying I don't belive we should have some kind of open season on wolves because I think is a large enough population to hunt them on a limited bases. However if you think the wolves are out of control you are probably wrong.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

^^^^^ Awesome posts, you two!

A lot of people have heard one too many Big, Bad Wolf stories and don't think rationally when they actually come across their presence. All they think about is how that wolf is going to kill "their" deer, not even once considering the roll of the wolf in the ecosystem, AS A WHOLE!

[rbs]

I hunt area 203 right next to the tb area. The winters are the toughest in my opinion, altho when the winters are tough the wolves are REALLY tough on the deer. Back in 96-97 even the refuge workers saw wolves killing just to kill. Now I am not saying that wolves are bad because I don't have a problem with them at all. We have hunted a area out there that the wolves are in every year and we see alot of deer. In fact last year my son and I saw 2 adults and 2 pups when we were out scouting our area the day before we hunted. My son shot his first buck and we ended up shooting 2 others as well. By far the best season we have had in a long time for bucks. Think what you want of the wolves but in my opinion they are here and we just need to deal with them.

[Bear55]

I forgot to mention this, years ago I use to think the wolves would drive deer out of an area, this is partially true to some degree. However many hunters in our party have observed deer pretty much bed down as soon the wolves move in. I think a lot of the time the deer are on lock down until they know the coast is clear. Other times the wolves can almost make a drive for you, or the deer will circle around the wolves and head back in the direction they came. I treat wolves just like grouse hunters during bow season, I get ready to shoot because a lot of the time I see deer just after I see a person or wolf.

[NoWiser]

Bring on the wolves....they drive more hunters out of the area than deer. People need an excuse for not shooting deer, and its never their fault. People in my group sit for a couple hours in the morning, and then get too cold and go back to camp for a sandwich, at which time they complain about the wolves eating all of their deer. I stay in my stand, and usually shoot my deer in the middle of the day. The winters are hard on the deer, especially when combined with wolves, but it just means you have to hunt a little harder, and smarter. (The smarter part is something I am still working on).

[bogwalker]

I have to agree BobT, there has been a flood of guys complaining about Wolves this year. The wolves are expanding their territory further south so more people are running into them. Suddenly the wolves are chasing all the deer out of "their" area and "decimating" the herd. Basically these people have never hunted with wolves before and they tend to overreact to their presence. Yes wolves eat deer, yes the hunting could be poor for a few days after the wolves move through. No the wolves are not decimating your herd. Welcome to deer hunting with wolves, some of us have been doing it for a long long time and guess what, we still shoot and see deer every year.

Now I am not saying I don't belive we should have some kind of open season on wolves because I think is a large enough population to hunt them on a limited bases. However if you think the wolves are out of control you are probably wrong.

What qualifies you to say that I and others over react to the presence of wolves in northern Minnesota? Just curious.

[big drift]

Ya know I keep hearing about how the wolves are so good to have around.

Since that is the case why dont all the folks who love them so much transplant them to oh say the metro and southern mn.

[PoorWordUsage] tired of dead calves, dead lambs, does with their stomachs and hams ripped open, fawns taken and left half consumed. I know it was coyotes, or dogs, or bears, or even Rocky the Squirrel. But when ya see it happening...

It is amazing how much experts who dont live here know, how much statistics the biologists show even though we are the ones who see it day in day out, wolves kill stock and game period.

The sick and lame is just that a sick and lame excuse for a killing machine. Ever see what happens to deer when driven out onto a lake up here? Ever watch a pack run deer between sled trails to tire them out? NO because your not here.