Why change party hunting laws?

[BuckKiller]

lol thats a good point MOSSY

[Bear55]

But Mossy these 7 pages have been about no party hunting for bucks, you would get your opportunity to shoot what you want and some of the young bucks might get a chance to see another year. Where is the problem in that.

[MOSSY]

WELL BEAR MAYBE I WANT MY KIDS TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT THAT SECOND BUCK IF THEY SAW IT.DON'T MAKE MOST OF US DO WHAT A FEW WOULD LIKE TO SEE

[NoWiser]

There are more than a few of us who would like to see this change..... In fact most, if not all, of my hunting buddies support this rule change.

Is there anything wrong with sitting down and telling your kids they are only allowed one buck per season? Its no different than when I was a young turkey hunter and told I could only shoot one bearded Tom, or when I was a young fisherman and told I could only keep one walleye over 21 inches. The only difference is this is a new regulation......not necessarily a bad one.

Deer hunting doesn't have to be about mowing down every deer that crosses your path.....

[CodyDawg]

In addition, it will teach kids and adults alike to appreciate the deer they do get. Who really NEEDS to shoot that 2nd and 3rd and 4th bucks? I believe that doing so diminishes the value placed on the deer. By doing away with the party hunting, you can still kill multiple deer, you can still fill your freezer with venison. You can also stand a better chance of shooting a mature buck.

If I hear that "there are all kinds of big bucks in Outdoor News" mantra one more time, I am gonna be ill. There are half a million....HALF A MILLION.... hunters out there and a hundred pics of nice bucks in ON. Do the math.

Oh, and if you dont eat antlers, why not shoot does?

[DaveT]

By my count on Pickelfarmer's poll the few you speak of is more like 50 percent.

Anyway, us antler eaters have been sacrificing for years by not shooting any bucks most years, let alone 3 or 4. The result of this has not been more mature bucks like we hoped, only more venison in your freezers. You can thank us now or later, or not at all, but the fact is you guys who party kill multiple bucks every year owe some if not most of your success to us antler eaters, not the DNR. Forgive us for not feeling sorry for you when you can only kill 1 buck, which I pray happens soon.

[MOSSY]

I WILL SHOOT A DOE IF I SEE ONE.SOMETIMES I DON'T SEE A DOE

BY THE WAY I HAVE PASSED ON MANY BUCKS MYSELF,BUT IT WAS BECAUSE I WANTED TO.IF THAT SAME SMALLER BUCK CAME BY LATER IN THE SEASON AND I HAD AN OPEN TAG I WOULD TAKE IT

I LIKE VENISON

[MOSSY]

BY THE WAY CODYDAWG HOW CAN YOU SHOOT "MULTIPLE DEER AND FILL YOUR FREEZER" IN A LOTTERY AREA,IF YOU CAN'T PARTY HUNT. MAYBE YOU HAVE MULTIPLE DEER WALKING PAST YOU ALL THE TIME,WE DON'T AND I BELIEVE MOST PEOPLE IN OUR AREA ARE THE SAME AS US

[Big Dave2]

So yes I am in favor of diminishing your opportuity to shoot mulitle bucks but do you really feel you or anyone else deserves to shoot more than one buck a year?

I feel that my party deserves the opportunity to harvest as many deer as there are members of our party.

[motley man]

Party hunting is not the problem. All the multiple tags that are given out in areas that can't take the pressure is. Also the people that shoot deer and don't eat them and throw them away in trash dumpsters after they brag about them. Or shoot deer and let them lay because they don't know how to take care of them or whatever. I have found many deer that where shot and brought into camp areas and then left. Antlers cut off and the rest left. Every year you hear about deer thrown in dumpsters in the twin cities, and people that let them hang and rot. Don't mean to get upset but people that hunt and don't take care for their kill are a problem. We all have know someone that has done it. Please educate anyone that you come across of how to take care of their kill. This includes fish,birds, or deer. Everyone should know how to process their game from the field to the table. It is not that hard to do if you learn how. This will help with population if they don't kill multiple animals and just let them lay. One person does not need to have 4-5 deer. Farmers that complain about deer eating their crops should let more hunters on their land, not get paid by D.N.R. for crop loss.

[Big Dave2]

In addition, it will teach kids and adults alike to appreciate the deer they do get. Who really NEEDS to shoot that 2nd and 3rd and 4th bucks? I believe that doing so diminishes the value placed on the deer.

[DaveT]

The value is being placed on the experience, not the deer or the antlers. However, the experience is tremendously enhanced by witnessing a large buck once in a while. Last year I watched a buck tend a doe from 6:30 AM until 2:30 PM, when I finally put an arrow in him. During that 8 hours, I watched this buck run off 5 other bucks and a coyote while defending his doe. I watched him herd her up against the base of a steep ridge while working her like a cutting horse. When she laid down he would lay down nearby, but would jump to his feet and charge out towards any sound he heard. Then hurry back to the doe before she could run off. All the time they were within 100 yards, but never closer than 60. Finally a young buck came in behind me and the buck worked over to me, ears laid back, hair on end, stiff legging it over to this new buck, and I shot him.

That is the kind of experience everyone should have. Once you've had hunting like that, it's hard to be satisfied with what we have here. BD, Mossy, the rest of you, your children will enjoy their hunting much more when they have real stories to tell about their hunt, not just a buck came out and I shot it. Then another buck came out so I shot that, too. You don't have to tell me there's more to hunting than big antlers, I know. My pursuit of big antlers has led me down a path full of incredible encounters in the woods that I would never have had if I was still brownNdownin' it. If any of you had seen half the things I've seen in the last 8 years, you'd be leading the charge to make things better here. You may be satisfied with the hunting you have now, but you have never been exposed to what it could be. Your fear of change is understandable, but unfounded. Give it a chance, see what happens. You might like it.

[chub]

It amazes me that ducks and pheasants are put on a pedestal and deer are treated like vermin. You can't party hunt for birds here, but you can fill 10 freezers with venison, as long as you have enough tags. Why can't an animal as magnificent as a whitetail deer get as much respect as a merganser?

You can party hunt for upland game. You are not supposed to party hunt for waterfowl. FEDERAL LAW, not state. Migratory Bird Treaty Act. I would say a fair majority of waterfowlers pay little heed to the party hunting laws. I wouldn't say that's got anything to do with respect for the quarry, or lack of.

[Bowfin]

[NoWiser]

DaveT--You are right on the money! I would still be part of the "brown its down" club had I not gone to school out of state and experienced the kind of hunting that you just described. Its almost pointless to try to convince someone that hunting like that is possible unless they too have experienced it, and if they've hunted MN all their life, they have not.

I am at a point in my life right now where I can't afford to go out of state to hunt, so the best I can hope for is that the DNR takes steps to point MN in that direction.

Bowfin - As much as it might hurt to pass up the 12, thats a choice you would have to make when you let the arrow fly on the 10. If you let the 10 go, and don't see the 12, well then maybe you have two real monsters to look forward to hunting next year. I let quite a few nice bucks walk while in college, and ate my buck tag every year, yet I don't have a single regret.

When you have hunting like DaveT described, the actual shooting of the deer becomes a MUCH, MUCH smaller part of the hunting experience. Most people probably wouldn't understand that or believe me, so its probably pointless to try to explain. I know there are a few here that know what I'm talking about, though....

[DonBo]

I don't know anyone who shoots deer and lets them lay, or lets them hang till rotten, or throws them in dumpsters. If you do, please call TIP or your local CO.

[archerystud]

I believe that my way teaches a kid just as valuable of a lesson as yours does. We meat hunters (IMO) are the ones who truly appreciate the deer we get.

BD2,

I bow and gun hunted MN for 16 years as a meat hunter. I took 9 bucks during that time and 5 in the last of those 5 years.

For the last 15 years I've bow, gun, and used muzzle loader to pursue mature bucks. I've bought land, planted food and cover, improved habitat, scouted year round and began hunting out of state as well. I've taken 3 MN bucks during that time while letting my neighbors fill out their party tags with small bucks while I eat tag soup at the end of the year.

I've hunted both ways and I know which deer I have a much higher appreciation for. I suggest you try to solely pursue mature whitetails for 5 years and eat a few tags while others around you fill theirs on the deer you passed up on.

After that I'd like you to get back to me and see if your opinion matches mine.

[lakevet]

I've hunted both ways and I know which deer I have a much higher appreciation for. I suggest you try to solely pursue mature whitetails for 5 years and eat a few tags while others around you fill theirs on the deer you passed up on.

After that I'd like you to get back to me and see if your opinion matches mine.

archerystud,

I know people who appreciate whitetail deer way higher than both of us. He dreams of being in our shoes, but he isn't and maybe never will be. It's the person who is unemployed/underemployed with a family to feed. Yes he could get gov't assistance, etc. But he loves to hunt. And he wants to stand on his own two feet. Getting any deer helps him/her feed his family. And it helps him maintain his sanity. He already has the gun, ammo, clothes, etc just buys a license and goes out the back door to party hunt with some family or friends. Cost is minimal. But it still costs precious dollars. Time off may be little as he does want to risk the job he does have. That spike that you let walk and cringe when he shoots is WAY more appreciated every time his family has another meal for it. Those that have plenty need to remember those hunters that have alot less. In northern Minnesota, party hunting is a time proven method to increase the odds(not guarantee) that all those in the party take home some venison. Local paper said unemployment around here is over 10%. My banker says that they expect unemployment to get over 15% in NE minnesota. Hope they are wrong. Its anyones guess how much higher the underemployment is/will be. The economic downturn already changed many peoples thinking on letting a spike walk last fall (2008). Not everyone is hurting economically, but the number is increasing. Letting spike deer walk is something that is greatly influenced by your economic status. Fall 2009 more hunters will be willing to shoot a spike than last year. I suspect your opinion might change if you were in their shoes. I definitely hope you don't have to experience that. Most spike shooters are not hurting for money, but I know some that gift the meat to a household that is short of food. The vast majority of party hunters I know divide meat based on who wants/needs the meat. It's the Northern Minnesota tradition.

lakevet

p.s. that law abiding spike shooting party hunter is a PETA nightmare. Non hunting americans strongly support you if you hunt to feed your family/others.

[archerystud]

lakevet,

If it comes down to money then people should take a look at what venison truly costs per pound. It's much cheaper to run to your local grocery store. But I'll keep the current system until the economy turns around. I don't have a problem if people needing to feed their family.

So when things do turn around something should be done to improve the age structure of the deer in Southern MN. I can't speak for the entire state (and this state is truly diverse in its hunting habitat) but the area that I do most of my hunting in has a very young age structure.

My point is that people who have never passed up on small bucks have no idea how frustrating it can be. I said in my previous post that I've taken 3 bucks in MN during that time. Two of those have come off of a small property I hunt in the TC. It's truly my honey hole because it has a park nearby and the deer are allowed to grow up.

I'm sure a bunch of people are saying I'm spoiled since I have my own land to hunt on (and yes I do consider myself very fortunate). So I've hunted for 15 years on my own land during that time I've shot at one and only one buck on my own property even though it is where 80% of my hunting is done.

I myself also like venison and have also found a way to supplement by finding doe areas in the TC and helping to control the population. So even in that 15 years I've always had at least one in the freezer. So yes I like the meat as well and it does not go to waste in my house either.

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

I believe that my way teaches a kid just as valuable of a lesson as yours does. We meat hunters (IMO) are the ones who truly appreciate the deer we get.

BD2,

I bow and gun hunted MN for 16 years as a meat hunter. I took 9 bucks during that time and 5 in the last of those 5 years.

For the last 15 years I've bow, gun, and used muzzle loader to pursue mature bucks. I've bought land, planted food and cover, improved habitat, scouted year round and began hunting out of state as well. I've taken 3 MN bucks during that time while letting my neighbors fill out their party tags with small bucks while I eat tag soup at the end of the year.

I've hunted both ways and I know which deer I have a much higher appreciation for. I suggest you try to solely pursue mature whitetails for 5 years and eat a few tags while others around you fill theirs on the deer you passed up on.

After that I'd like you to get back to me and see if your opinion matches mine.

That's my whole point. You hold a higher appreciation for just the large antlered deer while I hold a high appreciation for all deer.

Would you even hunt if deer did not grow antlers? I would.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

If it comes down to money then people should take a look at what venison truly costs per pound. It's much cheaper to run to your local grocery store.

I'm about as tired of this quote as you guys are of the outdoor news quote

It does not have to be expensive to hunt deer!!!!!!!

The first year I ever hunted I bought a license, an orange vest, 2 boxes of rifled slugs to shoot out of a borrowed gun and thats about it. I don't think I could go into the SuperValu and pick up very much meat for what was spent there.

Just because some choose to outfit themselves with the latest hunting gear because someone on a hunting show told them to, does not mean that you have to have this stuff to shoot a deer in Minnesota.

[chub]

I always get a kick out of that statement too.

Aside from a license, where does all the expense come from?

Bueller??????......Bueller??????.......Bueller??????

Firearm can be a $5000.00 custom Weatherby, or Grandpa's old hand me down 30/30.

Clothing can be as simple as a blaze orange zip up to go over existing clothes.

Ammo, unless your into the "recon by fire" method, is minimal.

Processing, one can do that for free if you have a knife and basic motor skills.

Point is, you can spend as much as you want, or as little as you have to.

[Bear55]

What is interesting is the non QDM guys have thing 100% in their favor now and they aren't willing to sacrifice anything. The QDM crowd has been making sacrifices for years while getting nothing back. Like someone else said, if you look at Pickelfarmers poll, you have to think that there is a real possiblity that half the state is ready for change. We are not the "vocal minority" that so many think we are and I would be willing to bet change will be coming some time in our near future.

[96trigger]

Wow, I go to one wrestling tourney and this place lights up like wild fire. Good discussions, I have enjoyed reading them. I have agreed and disagreed with both sides at times. I am amazed that after 13 pages it has managed to stay civil, that is a great credit to both sides.

[Getanet]

Just a couple of points. First, you can draw absolutely zero conclusions from Pickelfarmers poll. This is a popular HSOforum, but it is a very small, very select group of "vocal" outdoor enthusiasts compared to the overall hunting population. I won't even get into the faulty assumptions people are making based on his question.

Secondly, "non QDM guys have thing 100% in their favor now..." It's not like we unfavorably won a tug of war and wrote the rule book yesterday. These are the rules and regulations the DNR has set for our state. Presumably they have a little better idea of how to manage the deer population then any of us do. I realize that is a big assumption to make.