Gun case bill

[BlueLundFishrman]

That CO probably saved your friends life!

[BlueLundFishrman]

Having them enforce this law down to that fine of a line, just takes away from the time the CO's could be concentrating their effort on catching poachers. But if that's how you want to roll, it just gives less time to dedicate to catching those robbign the game and fish from legal license holders.

[Tom7227]

My guess is that there's more to this story than that. Your friend could have put it in the trunk and been totally legal. But I question whether a tag would be written, much less a conviction obtained, for a broken zipper.

Remember a tag isn't a conviction. There's a few steps that can keep a conviction off the record and so more opportunities to complain about something that's unfair.

This statute is used very often in urban areas as a basis for dealing with the real bad guys so don't knock it just based on your feeling how it relates to hunting.

[chub]

Remember a tag isn't a conviction. There's a few steps that can keep a conviction off the record and so more opportunities to complain about something that's unfair.

[kr8r.tom]

the same thing happened to me years ago, i had a brass corroded zipper that turned a nice blue with the last 3" of the case, the zipper wouldn't close all the way an i got a ticket for it. thats all there is to the story no more no less. writing tickets to make money.

[SM1]

Having grown up in MN, I have always had my gun cased. But after hunting in states like ND, SD, MT I sometimes wonder why we still have the case law. There's proof in these states having an uncased gun does NOT cause more accidents so throw that excuse out the window.

If the law was changed, I would still use my case for the protection aspect of preventing dings and scratches on my guns. I mean, most guns are worth good coin so just like a new car you would not want them all banged up. But in the example where you walk a half mile of crp and get a ride back--that would be one where I probably wouldn’t use a case. Leave it up to me when I want to use a gun case!

We have way too many laws to dummy proof everything.

[PierBridge]

Uncased, loaded and pointing at me while we're driving down dirt roads and through fields...... No thanks and you won't be hunting with me thats for sure.

Next question please...

[kkahmann]

Just from a safety standpoint--when do you guys think most AD's happen? (accidental discharge)I would bet it is while loading and unloading a firearm. I think therefore that the common sense solution would be to require all guns to be loaded at all times. Treat it like it is loaded because it is. Governments making laws really ain't gonna fix stupid.

In Ontario guns can be uncased but have to be unloaded during daylight hours. I've noticed most guns are way more beat-up here than in Minn. In Wisconsin it has to be encased--and that means a gun case--not the trunk of a car or the back of pick-up. That has nothing to do with safety.

A few years ago in Wisconsin I was with 2 guys with uncased guns in the trunk--one from Ontario and one from Minnesota. The CO ticketed the guy from Minnesota and just warned the guy from Ontario--mine happened to be in a case so I was just an observer. I got the distinct impression that the CO did not like people from Minnesota. $255 fine--I'm related to the guy from Minnesota so the fine ended up on my credit card.

[BobT]

Quote:

In Ontario guns can be uncased but have to be unloaded during daylight hours.

You have to do all your hunting at night?

Couldn't resist. It was out there like a sore thumb.

Quote:

A few years ago in Wisconsin I was with 2 guys with uncased guns in the trunk--one from Ontario and one from Minnesota. The CO ticketed the guy from Minnesota and just warned the guy from Ontario--mine happened to be in a case so I was just an observer.

Why would a CO issue a citation to one violator but not the other for the same offense? Must be more to this story.

In Minnesota this would not be an offense. We can carry an uncased firearm in a locked trunk....unless the law has been changed without my knowledge.

Bob

[MinDak Hunter]

"There's proof in these states having an uncased gun does NOT cause more accidents so throw that excuse out the window."

Really? Then why were there 26 accidents in SD and only 3 in MN over 10 years? From the MN DNR HSOforum... I'll list the url at the bottom of my post.

Q: Are there any studies that prove that uncased firearms laws likeMinnesota’s reduce firearm-related accidents?

A: Researching this question, we found no specific studies have been undertaken which prove or disprove that laws like Minnesota’s transportation of firearms in motor vehicles regulation reduces firearm-related accidents. The Department compared IHEA hunting related firearms accident data for all states neighboring Minnesota: North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Iowa. The Department looked at two major factors criteria when it compared IHEA data for a ten-year period (1998 to 2007):

• Discharged firearm in or on a motor vehicle; and

• Remove or place a firearm in a motor vehicle.

The States of Iowa and Wisconsin have almost identical transportation of firearm laws as Minnesota. North Dakota allows uncased firearms to have loaded magazine, but no ammunition in the chamber. South Dakota allow for transportation of uncased loaded firearms. In the ten-year period, Minnesota and Iowa each recorded only three firearm related accidents with these two major factors. Wisconsin recorded two firearm related accidents with the two major factors. However, looking at the same ten-year period, South Dakota recorded 26 firearm related accidents. North Dakota recorded 13 firearm related accidents using the same two major factors criteria.The statistical data from the IHEA represented in the graphs below clearly show that Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa transportation of firearms laws reduce firearms related accidents when comparing two major factors criteria. North Dakota and South Dakota accounted for 84% of the accidents whereas Minnesota only accounted for six percent of the accidents. When comparing the accident rate per 100,000 hunters for the five states, it is very evident that those states that have firearms transportation laws similar to Minnesota’s have a much lower accident rate.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/aboutdnr/reports/2009_uncased_firearms.pdf

[kkahmann]

Bob--sometimes I don't think or write very clearly--thats obvious but I hope you know what I meant.

As far as Wisconsin goes--2 guys walk away from camp hunting and they are walking down the road on thier way home shortly before dark. I pick them up and we put thier guns in the trunk of the car--unloaded. Mine of course was cased. CO stops and does the liscense check thing and then wonders where the other guys guns are. We explain. The guy from Minnesota tells the CO it would be legal in Minnesota to carry the guns in the trunk not readily accesable to the driver or passenger of the vehicle. CO takes the guns and puts them in the front of his truck--unencased and drives them back to our campsite whereupon he writes up the guy from Minnesota and writes up a warning for the guy from Ontario.

This is not the first time I have noticed that many residents of NW Wisc do not like people from Minnesota. I told the kid to fight it but maybe I shouldn't have loaned him my credit card. He's still my favorite nephew and I'm dam sure I'm his favorite uncle.

[gspman]

I'm against this bill.

If one doesn't have the faculties to remember to unload their gun and put it in a case and fully close the case then I politely suggest that you should consider another sport. This isn't that hard folks... and it's certainly not a hassle. Case your unloaded gun completely. If you can't figure that out then you'll most likely handle your gun in an unsafe manner as well.

Furthermore it's not that hard to carry a gun sock with you and when you get picked up to put the gun sock completely on and completely close it. And then be transported back to your vehicle.

[kc0myy]

i guess I am on a fencepost on this. because I see how its is kinda a hassle it put you gun in a case. but it would make that much more easy for someone to shoot something. the olny reason why I don't like the case law is duck hunting. like if you shoot a bird and its cripple. I want to be able to get as close and asap to that bird and kill it. so I don't lose it. other wise I would say keep the law how it is

[BobT]

Just poking a little fun at your expense.

Bob

[fasternu]

My guess is that there's more to this story than that. Your friend could have put it in the trunk and been totally legal. But I question whether a tag would be written, much less a conviction obtained, for a broken zipper.

Since I was standing there, I know there was nothing more to this story. If a CO is standing there watching you, do you really think they are thinking about all of the hundreds of OTHER people out there poaching? NO! He is watching you and in this case waiting to write a ticket for any little thing you are doing wrong. By the way, our local county adds a $50 "FEE" to any ticket the DNR writes, on top of the basic fine.

[kr8r.tom]

if it passes and you feel its unsafe to be uncased, case your gun. that simple.

[SM1]

The report you referenced, MinDak Hunter, is on the right track for showing higher incidence of accidents in "states" (two of them) that allow for uncased firearms. But I have to criticize how this data was reported:

The report lists 16 states that do not require cased guns and 8 states that do. Yet the numbers are only comparing 2 states with no case law to 3 states with a case law. Are these states good representatives of the respective averages? Or are these states outliers? That part is not listed.

Listing 24 states and then only comparing 5 of them does not give enough power to be fully convincing.

That's one thing about listing scientific data: You can take a small slice of data and potentially have a completely different conclusion than if all data is included.

In addition to comparing more states, the data should be broken down further to get the real answer.

[fishlakeman]

I agree with you SM 1, data can be skewed in any way. And whose to say that these incidents were the result of having an uncased firearm in the vehicle?

My guess is, the reason there is higher accidental gun incidents in ND and SD is due to the fact that they can use rifles statewide to deer hunt. There is nothing out there to stop those bullets. I usually don't do any waterfowl or upland hunting in ND during the firearm deer season because of the amount of rifle shooting that goes on. Plus, you can basically road hunt deer, so driving around in the pickup and jumping out and shooting at running deer is common pracitice in ND. Not very safe hunting.

[96trigger]

A good statistician can make any data say what they want it too, it all depends on who is writing the check.

[carpshooterdeluxe]

my guess, based on nothing more than personal observation while at a few different lodges, is that many of these accidental discharges in south dakota involved pheasant hunters in the field. low shots, quick excited shots, idiots who hunt pheasants 1 weekend out of the year with a gun they bought at scheels or sportsmans the minute they stepped off the plane....etc etc.

[MinDak Hunter]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but doesn't the study specifically address uncased in a vehicle?

"The Department looked at two major factors criteria when it compared IHEA data for a ten-year period (1998 to 2007):

• Discharged firearm in or on a motor vehicle; and

• Remove or place a firearm in a motor vehicle."

If that was the data they were looking at how would shooting a rifle or at low flying pheasant apply while in the field?

[kr8r.tom]

minnesota is proposing the firearm is to be unloaded and the magazine empty. sd and nd allow the magazine full, one or the other allows one in the chamber.does the obvious have to be explained why nd or sd have a higher injury statistic.

[Tom7227]

Go read the bill - it allows the gun to be loaded.

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H0128.0.html&session=ls86

Doug Smith was not being accurate when he reported that it required they be unloaded.

[kr8r.tom]

i read it and like it better now. but knowing minnesota i would guess they would cross out "loaded" before it passed wich would be safer and not tempt normally honest people to shoot out the window. loaded to me is one in the chamber not the magazine.

[harvey lee]

I have hunted in those states that allow a loaded gun in regards to the clip or magazine. I would rather see the gun totally unloaded.

As far as the case goes, is there really a need for them?