I think the deer will die this winter.

[BuckKiller]

yup we will just have to wait and see

[Eskimoman]

Those bucks that have little or no fat on them from running during the rut are going to die first. How is that going to help the deer population?

Note from admin, please read forum policy before posting again, thank you. How is having less deer in general going ot help deer hunting in Minnesota? 95% of the people on here that are in favor of QDM, are in areas where there is a very abundant deer population. If we have less deer, its obvious that any thoughts of QDM are going to go out the window and we will be back to trying get a healthy deer population again, which is part of QDM. Maybe some of us don't want to have to go that route again.

As for feeding, I'd bet that if it came down to feeding or a massive winter kill, the state and groups start feeding. If it came down to keeping more does alive, I would.

It sounds like you are implying that a winter kill would be a good thing, that way we wouldn't be talking about QDM any more and we can go back to shooting one deer every couple of years.

I guess I would take any type of restriction on antlers and seeing multiple deer than not seeing any at all.

Note from admin, please read forum policy before posting again, thank you. If you want big deer, like so many people have complained there are none in minnesota, it would be good for the population to come down some. You see, especially in regards to northern mn, the deer dont have alot of nutrition. When the population is high, there is less nutrition and deer have trouble growing those mongo racks you all crave. With a lower population and a better buck to doe ratio, many people would see their hunting improve. I am not saying I am against feeding deer, but just trying to inform you a little bit.

[Eskimoman]

I have read in a few books and magazine articles how the "patchwork" of farms and woods and even CRP or grassland areas has created ideal whitetail habitat across much of the nation. It is my understanding that there are far more deer now than when the white man first stepped foot on this continent. This is not true for the bison or ducks but whitetail yes, most likely from a change in habitat.

I would think Extreme Northeastern Minnesota (ie. near the Boundary Waters) would provide a living laboratory in the big woods. Much of this area has not been cleared and farmed. This would seem to be a logical place to study wolf, deer, cold and snow relationships much like Isle Royale on Superior. The deer are not feeding on food plots fields or feeders in these remote areas.

Most hunters probably would not care and it would be a waste of tax payer dollars because very few people hunt in these remote areas anyways....but it would be interesting.

I would be all for that. That is where I hunt. In the true northwoods wilderness. Its nice to not see anybody and only hear a half a dozen shots in a day.

[otis32]

ZDMILLER, have you ever sat in a stand for the whole deer season and seen nothing but timber wolves?

I think having a successful deer season brings alot more money into the state then timber wolves and cats would.

I didn't say kill ALL of then , just keep them in check!!

I don't know what kind of tourists would come up north here to look at these animals, but maybe I could start a new business giving tours. I could get RICH!!!

But then again I don't know if I could handle that since I am UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT, AND SELFISH.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

[Grant Pearson]

Let me pose this question. Regardless of whether we believe in QDM or not, if we think that nature should just run it's course, or whatever we think, isn't the main thing being able to get out in the woods and enjoy nature as it is? Yes, the goal is to bring meat home for the table, but I, anyway, have a great time in the deer woods whether or not I bag a deer. For me, it's about being out in the woods and watching the squirrels chase each other and maybe see a timberwolf or whatever. Yes, some deer are going to die during this harsh winter. What we have to realize is that regardless of how many deer die this winter, it's great to have the ablilty to actually go into the woods each fall and chase after the "grey ghost."

[jigglestick]

that was almost pointless.

you can do that without deer hunting.

I dont think anybody here goes deer hunting and hates being out in the woods.

the point of this thread as I see it was that the DNR for some reason has felt the urge to manipulate the deer herd.

if the surrounding habitat can not sustain the heard, feed wise, they will level out naturaly.

if it's because pressure from insurance companies or whom ever decides there are to many car deer crashes then what ever,

but when you open up the limits to knock the herd numbers down for what ever reason, you chance being "off" on the numbers estimate, finding we went just a little to far and then we have a winter exactly like this one, the herd is in BIG trouble.

if I can afford to, I will start feeding to suppliment the herd as long as it's legal.

[Grant Pearson]

the point of this thread as I see it was that the DNR for some reason has felt the urge to manipulate the deer herd.

Then why not have a 5 tag limit statewide regardless of winter?

[BobT]

As long as there is plenty of food and water to sustain the deer herd, I do not believe the temperatures are a big problem. I look at our horses and extreme temperatures don't seem to bother them much at all. How? I have no idea! If I stood that still in -30 degrees with a -65 wind chill, I'd be there till they picked me up in the spring.

Anyway, deep snow will be far more threatening to the deer herd than cold temperatures because it makes it much more difficult for the deer to get around and find food. As they struggle to move around and feed they get weaker and then become prey for the predators. It's all part of the natural cycle of things but yes, I can agree that if that happens, we may have to watch more closely how many we predators take from the herd in subsequent years. We don't want to stay greedy and deplete our resources to the point there isn't any left.

Bob

[Bear55]

QDM is a poor management, its a human corruption of the natural selection that has no real benefit for the herd.

So having a buck population that consists of maybe 95% 1.5 year olds is natural? Its about as unnatural as it gets, if anything QDM is about balancing that age structure to a more natural number.

[Basseyes]

The DNR is darned if they do, darned if they don't.

QDM is not the enemy. Yes they want to shoot big bucks. I'm not a member nor do I practice it. But see them as wanting to get the age structure of breeding bucks and buck to doe ratios closer together which lead us towards a direction for a healthy deer herd as not being a bad ideal. With older age class deer having to fight for the right to breed does leading us towards a stronger gene pool. Instead of the fork-ed horn young weak teenagers breeding ready does. Our deer herd when it climbs destroys browse and inflicts wide ranging damage on habitat that we wont see quickly but more in the scale of decades.

We drop trees and hinge trees late fall and early winter on our property. The deer really destroy the tree tops and buds in the winter. Have never feed deer on our deer hunting property by dumping bags of corn or other feed out. Don't think it's a great idea but can't blame someone for thinking it helps. Probably doesn't help as much as people think but on a smaller scale don't think it hurts as much as the other side thinks it does as long as it's not in an area that has TB or CWD.

Habitat is the core for healthy wildlife whatever it is. If there's a healthy wolf population they are going to go where their prey is. Over browsing is brought on by an over population which will eventually harm the very herd the DNR is trying to protect. Fewer deer leads to hunters who aren't happy. Hunters are the bill payers or the customers of the DNR. When they aren't happy the DNR has to listen up at least a little bit. When I go deer hunting I want to see deer. Who doesn't?

The crux of the issue for the DNR is they have to manage the resources. Deer have to be managed not only for herd health but also for the damage to the habitat that they inhabit. They also have to deal with hunters, politics and traditions. Those things are tied together wether we like it or not. QDM and those who don't even like any idea connected to it are the future sides to a battle of new thinkers over tradition. Tradition runs deep. And the drive towards a healthier deer herd with bigger bucks has a growing legion of dedicated passionate followers. Neither side is likely to back down any time soon and some compromises are going to have to be made by both sides. Will be interesting to see where the future of deer hunting regulations are heading and how the public accepts it.

[BobT]

I don't always think that those of us that manage wildlife from our laptops really take all the factors into consideration. We have our own personal agendas and that's what we use to form our opinions. That's okay because it brings about some interesting discussions so long as we stay interested.

Having a very large deer herd may not promote a healthy herd. Likewise, having only trohpies out there won't either. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle but that too is not true for all areas. The terrain, food and water supply, shelter conditions, weather, predation, etc. all play a part. An area that has ample food supply may sustain a larger herd but that will also draw the interest of more predators, including humans.

I don't envy the task we put on our DNR. They have to strike that balance between maintaining a healthy herd while at the same time satisfying the whims and wishes of those of us that give them their job security. It's got to be a tough balancing act. Same is true for the fishery.

Bob

[Mark Christianson]

You nailed it Bob.

[kr8r.tom]

we don't have to envy the dnr's job. they choose to take on the task, we should be able to critique everything they do wether they like it or not, they work for us.

[BobT]

That may be true but remember who "us" is.

Some of "us" want only a trophy deer herd with lots of trophy opportunities stacked up in neat little rows so we can brag about how many we strung up.

Some of "us" want only a trophy deer herd but with controlled opportunities because too many would be too much of a good thing and deplete the essence of the hunt.

Some of "us" want lots of deer and we don't really care whether they spout forks or break records so long as we get to see lots of them.

Some of "us" want lots of opportunities for bucks because that's what we believe we should be taking.

Some of "us" want lots of does because that's what we believe we should be hunting.

Some of "us" don't care how many deer there are so long as we can get one for the dinner table.

Some of "us" not only want venison for the dinner table but we're not satisfied with just one. We want 4, 5, 6, or more.

Some of "us" would prefer to hunt only fawns because that's the best meat.

And the list goes on and on.

I'm glad I don't work for you. Chances are if I did and you critiqued my every move I wouldn't work for you very long. The fact is, I have never worked "for" anyone a day in my life. I work "with" my employers but never for them. They need my labor, I need their paycheck. It's a mutual understanding.

I had a manager try to pull that attitude with me once. I told him where to go rather quickly. I made it clear to him that very day that he would NEVER be my boss.

Bob

[BuckKiller]

That may be true but remember who "us" is.

Some of "us" want only a trophy deer herd with lots of trophy opportunities stacked up in neat little rows so we can brag about how many we strung up.

Some of "us" want only a trophy deer herd but with controlled opportunities because too many would be too much of a good thing and deplete the essence of the hunt.

Some of "us" want lots of deer and we don't really care whether they spout forks or break records so long as we get to see lots of them.

Some of "us" want lots of opportunities for bucks because that's what we believe we should be taking.

Some of "us" want lots of does because that's what we believe we should be hunting.

Some of "us" don't care how many deer there are so long as we can get one for the dinner table.

Some of "us" not only want venison for the dinner table but we're not satisfied with just one. We want 4, 5, 6, or more.

Some of "us" would prefer to hunt only fawns because that's the best meat.

And the list goes on and on.

I'm glad I don't work for you. Chances are if I did and you critiqued my every move I wouldn't work for you very long. The fact is, I have never worked "for" anyone a day in my life. I work "with" my employers but never for them. They need my labor, I need their paycheck. It's a mutual understanding.

I had a manager try to pull that attitude with me once. I told him where to go rather quickly. I made it clear to him that very day that he would NEVER be my boss.

Bob

yup yup I agree... its to hard to make everyone happy

[Bear55]

That may be true but remember who "us" is.

Some of "us" want only a trophy deer herd with lots of trophy opportunities stacked up in neat little rows so we can brag about how many we strung up.

Some of "us" want only a trophy deer herd but with controlled opportunities because too many would be too much of a good thing and deplete the essence of the hunt.

I still don't understand how people think that changing the laws is going to put big bucks behind every tree and on everyones walls. Sure there would be more of them around and more of them shot but its not like they are going to be running around like all the dumb 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks who get easily shot every year. Only the guys who put in a ton of work, get lucky, or both are going to connect. A big mature buck is a challenge to hunt and nothing the DNR does is going to diminish that.

[Muskie456]

I am just glad the DNR has been having us knock down the deer population. It is going to help the more mature animals servive (and yes I mean bucks). The land can only support X amount of animals. If there is only enough food to support 5 animals and 10 are tring to, they all die.

[timberghost]

For those of you wanting to feed the deer. Note; That to start and stop is not helpful.

My family and I feed on our property and it is not cheap! The price of grain those deer eat is more than most can afford.

Most of you could buy a guided hunt anywhere you want for what we pay out in grain for the winter.

A few 50lbs bags do nothing

[Wanderer]

I saw 4 nice, fat, healthy deer last night.

The north metro has lost a lot of snow the past few days.

Just thought I'd share some good news with you guys.

[Wanderer]

The north metro has lost a lot of snow the past few days.

Well, so much for that. Radar looks bad.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

I'd 2nd Timberghosts statement, its all or nothing if you are going to feed them

[Fishing Freak]

Well up north if we get more then another 2-3 ft of snow we will have alot of deer die this winter

[BullFighter]

For those of you wanting to feed the deer. Note; That to start and stop is not helpful.

My family and I feed on our property and it is not cheap! The price of grain those deer eat is more than most can afford.

Most of you could buy a guided hunt anywhere you want for what we pay out in grain for the winter.

A few 50lbs bags do nothing

Corn is say 3 to 7 bucks per bushel. a Bushel weighs 56 lbs.

$6.00 x 20 = $120.00 (right now corn is about $4.00 per bushel)

20 x 56 = 1,120 lbs of corn

"Buy a Guided Hunt anywhere, was that supposed to be a Joke?

[Big Dave2]

20 bushels of corn for the whole winter? If you are in an area with a large deer population, I would think they might eat that in a week.

$120.00 X 16 weeks = Guided hunt

[BullFighter]

20 bushels of corn for the whole winter? If you are in an area with a large deer population, I would think they might eat that in a week.

$120.00 X 16 weeks = Guided hunt

MOST GUIDED HUNTS ARE OVER 2,500 BUCKS DUDE....

Note from admin, please read forum policy before posting again, thank you.

BIG GRIN ....