Moving the Firearm Season

[BLACKJACK]

That is why everything should just be left alone!

The best weapon the QDM'rs have is EDUCATION! The more evidence you have that this theory is the best possible way to manage our deer, the more ammo you have for those of us who question the real objective of QDM. And presented properly, you could be very convincing. However, in these post a lot of you lack that kind of tact.

I have learned a lot reading and arguing in these posts. I am FULLY against changing anything and forcing anything on anyone else. I fully believe that hunting should be left up to the individual that pulls the trigger or releases the string.

I may come off like the type that shoots anything and everything. And when it comes to where I hunt during the rifle season, I more then likely will knock it down if it's brown if I don't have a deer yet. But I bow hunt and early season I let little guys walk and wait for something bigger. But like HE!! do I want to be denied a deer just because a special interest group passed a law telling us that it has to be so big to shoot at it. To me that crosses a line!

If I want that particular deer, then by all means I should be entitled to take what ever I want, as long as it's with in the law!

As this wheel goes round and round, something to think about is we are all pretty much on the same page. Where the argument comes from is passing laws and regs. We have enough of those, and in reality, no law or reg is really going to change anything. It all boils down to edumacation!

[Bear55]

That is why everything should just be left alone!

The best weapon the QDM'rs have is EDUCATION! The more evidence you have that this theory is the best possible way to manage our deer, the more ammo you have for those of us who question the real objective of QDM. And presented properly, you could be very convincing. However, in these post a lot of you lack that kind of tact.

I think QDM has been proven to work over and over all across the country. As far as managing the heard it all depends on what you want, I want a well balanced herd with a good age structure, if all you want is to shoot a small buck every year then our state is heaven. All the education and proof is out there but the hard part is actually getting someone to pass that young bucks, I still remember the first one I let go, it was a great experience.

[Musky Buck]

Big Dave the last 15 bucks I've taken would all be OK in an antler restriction as long as 8 pt and up are ok.

[Musky Buck]

I hear ya Dave new hunters hammer away, just hopefully after 1/2 dozen or so little bucks they outgrow that and start to pass on some, 1st year I passed on a little buck seemed tough to do because I had 2 days to hunt and we had a blizzard the year before and i didn't get to rifle hunt, was it 1987 I think so letting the runt go following a doe I was thankful 10 min. later as a large 11 pointer was also trailing the same doe, I learned more letting them go rather than 20 min. into the season I'm done and down gutting. That's all.

[Musky Buck]

What people spend in fuel, shells, scents, licenses, processing, etc. I'm not saying it cost a lot, but a couple hundred dollars usually covers it for most, couple hundred toward beef would get ya quite a bit and Dave.....hunt however you wish. It is just my wish for the better of all that we let small bucks go, especially if you've hammered a bunch of yearlings in the past, stop the cross tagging, and we'd all benefit. I agree leave it up to yourself or your hunting parties wishes. It is what it is and we can all hunt how we wish during our open seasons.

[Big Dave2]

What people spend in fuel, shells, scents, licenses, processing, etc. I'm not saying it cost a lot, but a couple hundred dollars usually covers it for most, couple hundred toward beef would get ya quite a bit and Dave.....hunt however you wish. It is just my wish for the better of all that we let small bucks go, especially if you've hammered a bunch of yearlings in the past, stop the cross tagging, and we'd all benefit. I agree leave it up to yourself or your hunting parties wishes. It is what it is and we can all hunt how we wish during our open seasons.

Theres no way I would have to spend more than the cost of a couple of shells and a license to hunt deer. We process our own deer with nothing more than a knife, a hacksaw and a borrowed grinder. If I don't go up north, I spend almost nothing to hunt.

All I was trying to say in my last post was that it is easy for someone who has shot small deer in the past to want these kind of restrictions once you are to the point in your hunting career that you are personally sick of shooting small bucks. But what about a kid just starting out? What about a guy who is 30 years old and decides to give hunting a try for the first time? Why don't all of these guys get a chance to get sick of it like you did?

How many of you that are advocating for more restrictions have ever shot a buck in your life that would be considered too small for the new restrictions? I'm certainly not saying you were in the wrong to shoot it if you ever did, but rather just trying to convey the message that peoples ideals change over time. I'm sure that at one time a nice 4 pointer or forkhorn was a trophy to most every one here.

[Bear55]

I don't think anyone is against letting the younger hunters shoot whatever they want, lets say anyone under 18 gets to blast away. Its great for younger hunters to get that first deer and gain some valuable experience. If someone comes into the sport at 30? Well they are an adult and they should be able to handle the regs.

[Musky Buck]

Well said Bear, that's what I was trying to say, the new hunters need to get their hands bloody and experience the whole experience on whatever deer they want to take.

[Musky Buck]

And the elderly, because we'll all be knocking on heavens door sometime.

[Big Dave2]

so, if a kid goes out hunting for the first time at 19 then he should follow the regs like a guy that has been hunting for 20 years?

Come on Musky you had to have shot at least 1 of those smaller bucks after the age of 18.

You guys need to keep in mind that not everyone is fortunate enough to have a Dad or an uncle to introduce them to the great outdoors at a young age. I started deer hunting at the age of 30. If someone starts late in life why should they have any less opportunity than you did? You took your 6 little ones. Why can't the next guy?

[Musky Buck]

They can big d, we have no rule yet, kill whatever you want. I did shoot 1 yearling buck after the age of 18 and I was sick about it. That's when I changed personally, after apologizing to that runt it has never happened since and never will. I hear ya yes a kid or elderly or someone new to hunting should have that opportunity, can't argue that, wouldn't want my own kids not being able to take their first buck do to antler restrictions.

[BeezeHound]

Well put Musky. Big Dave, here's an example of what our group does. Beginig hunters, wether 12 or 40, have the option to shoot whatever they want for their first couple bucks. After that then we urge them to let the 1.5 year old bucks walk, notice I said urge not force. Hunters can only tag a buck that they shoot, no party hunting bucks, but doe's are open to party hunting. It has seemed to work for us so far and keeps the beginners happy and intrested.

[Musky Buck]

Same for us boozehound, same county as well. I still have 1 uncle we are slowly abandoning, he has taken probably in the 50-60 some buck range, maybe more, well now in the past 8-10 years he's lucky, the little bucks unlucky, some twin cities relatives are willing to tag them for him, none of us would and that's why he let's them hunt his land, so he has more tags, pretty sick uncle of mine,he keeps the best stand of course, but on his own ground he can do what he wishes, what is lawful, he likes to shoot and oh yes we call him names and say there goes next years 2 1/2 year old and on about it, he'll just never get it, it's like a horn buck fever, he sees horns and it's going down. Worst part is he being a marksman in the military for years, he's had 1 miss in his career. Kinda sad when the other 19 of us are done shooting yearlings and since grandpa passed he's kinda the veteran of us all.

[Musky Buck]

Dave, in all honesty I don't want more restrictions. I restrict myself enough and 18 others in our group. Now when our group takes a 200+ or a heavy racked buck we always wonder how many times we might have had that same buck in a scope or peep sight in years prior. At least the deer had some kind of a life. It got to do some breeding as a mature deer. What your group does Dave is fine by me. I don't look down on people, other than my uncle, who shoot whatever because not everyone is at the same stage of hunting and you can't legislate that. It is nice to hunt in an area of the state where many mature bucks roam and that is a result of go/grow, people letting small bucks walk and private land owners and farmers assisting with that. Man you get by hunting cheap, me, 30-06,knife,bone saw,blaze orange clothing,sighting in rifle (gas and shells), license, more gas money, land payments, processing,100 dollar gift for my neighbor helping allow me muzzy, rifle access on his farm, my deer hunting cost to me is around 3,000 maybe more a year with of course the land costing the most.

[propster]

Booze, your point is well taken - he's not any less dead when shot 2 weeks after the rut than when shot during the rut. But since most hunters can't seem to draw their own line in the sand against shooting young bucks, it simply makes sense to me to make it less easy or a little less likely to kill them, if you have a mind to anyway. Gun season during the rut kills more young bucks than having it later, plain and simple. And other than young or first-time or fairly new hunters, I still admit to not understanding what makes a small immature buck more of a trophy to some than a mature doe. And considering the seeming overabundance of regulations that the DNR has foisted on hunters the last few years, I understand you guys' desire not to have additional regulations - why can't we just leave it the way it is you say? In my mind though, we are regulated to death in the opposite direction - rules and restrictions (or lack thereof) that are forced on many of us that prevent the end goal or result that so many of us obviously aspire to. I respect you guys making the argument that you like it just the way it is, it may be just perfect for you, and you think we're selfish for wanting to see some improvement, achievable or not. I offer the possibility that maybe you consider you may be the selfish ones though. I for one have never cared to settle for mediocrity when I think both sides can eventually benefit.

[Big Dave2]

I guess what I am getting at is I think most people in my generation will eventually come to your conclusion at one point or another in their hunting career. I just don't want legislation to tell them that they have to come to it. Everyone progresses as thier own pace in hunting. It would be hard to tell each individual that at a certain age of life that they should be at a certain point in thier hunting career. I just don't think that is fair.

I certainly understand the benefit of QDM. I will get to where you are someday hopefully. Maybe a day will come where I will only bowhunt and leave the gun in the cabinet, but that day is not yet. I certainly wouldn't complain if I saw bigger deer but I would just like to see more deer on the land that I have access to hunt. When 5 guys hunt and we only take 2 deer for the year, I don't think thats too much to ask.

So, I guess what I am saying is your points are well taken and I can see that you understand my side of the story as well, so I am going to try to leave it at that.

I did think it was a fun debate though!

[archerystud]

I also find it funny in this topic that people are so against change. Changes in the deer season have happened in the past and may happen again in the future.

I'll be 40 in a couple of weeks and started bow and gun hunting at the age of 12. The gun season back then was broken up into two seasons in zone 4 and was similar to the current zone 3. The first gun season was bucks only for like 3-4 days. The second season was for does/bucks and one or two days.

Sometime later the season switched to two separate seasons and does could be shot in both. Now we have one 9 day gun season. Bow hunting in my zone 4 used to end at the end of November for a while as well.

I guess my point is that the deer seasons have already changed drastically in my lifetime. Assuming the big guy upstairs lets me stay down here long enough I will be that there will be least a 2 more gun season type changes in the next 20 years.

[Musky Buck]

Big Dave I'd buy ya your favorite beverage, anytime. I appreciate all of you guys helping me look at these things more openly, thanks Dave, I can tell you are quite the character and a good one I'm convinced too ! Have a good holiday season !

[Big Dave2]

I appreciate that Musky Buck. I like to argue sometimes but I sure don't want to tick anyone off in the end.

I'd buy you a beverage right back!

[96trigger]

OK guys, you are taking this "holiday niceness" thing a little too far. Next thing you know dogs and cats will be getting along.

[jbell1981]

Next thing you know dogs and cats will be getting along.

Too Late!!

[Shoot2Kill]

Amen Trigger, I can't believe I've missed this entire thread. Just got done reading through the whole thing, it's deja vu all over again. I love it, I spend all of my free time and what little extra cash I have hunting, scouting, or looking for new properties to hunt, but I'm the lazy one who wants the DNR to tie one to a tree for me.

Listen carefully, I am speaking for myself and about 20 other hardcore bowhunters that I hang around with. None of us are happy with the deer hunting in our home state. The reason we are unhappy is we have all seen what the hunting could be like with a few changes. I know that these changes will eventually happen, I would like to see them happen sooner. Unfortuneately, there is a segment of our deer hunters that were raised to not shoot does, and put some kind of value on a little buck that they don't put on a doe. It's like they have to be able to say "I got my BUCK!", and then toss the rack in the garage to be forgotten. When I see a young buck, I don't see vermin, I see potential. Eventually, this segment is going to die off, and our new, younger hunters, will put these changes into effect. My son will be one of them.

I hope I'm still around to enjoy the quality deer hunting that we all deserve when that happens.

If not, I'll wave to you every November as I'm heading south on 35...

Wow, I've been gone for 2 days...can't believe this post added another 8 pages since I was on here last.

DaveT....I would like to shake your hand. Pretty sure I've said the exact same thing to my bowhunting buddies at least a dozen times. Next fall I'm heading northwest up 94 to ND in the early season, and south on 35 to IA in November. I'm done burning vacation days in MN for a while.

[sticknstring]

If I had the financial backing I'd be on the freeway with you boys but until then I'll be content with mediocrity. I think the DNR will be having some good talks on deer numbers in the off-season. And for good reason. I'm up for a few cold ones as well.

[archerystud]

Adult Beverages???

Where are we meeting??

[Big Dave2]

Wherever you want!