Musket Scopes

[Musky Buck]

Not trying to start a mess on this topic but I saw a guy come out of a woods Saturday and he was looking at me and I saw a scope on his muzzleloader, he realized he forgot to take it off I'm sure and as calmly as he could he blocked my view and popped it off, I know that's illegal but is his scope that accurate popping it on and off ? Wouldn't you be better off with open sights ? I wouldn't trust that gun doing that, would you ?

[picksbigwagon]

If he was hunting in a 3B zone with a 3B license he was legal, until the end of the 3B season. SInce he took it off, I think you busted him. I have never had removable scope rings, but I would think they are pretty close to be right on. If he was using a picatany rail (weaver mounts) I bet it would be almost right on

[mrklean]

if you see him again doing that might want to call the CO

[walleye vision]

Don't call the CO. Zero or 1x power scopes are legal with muzzleloaders if you have a note from your eye doctor. In fact, once people reach the bifocal, i can't see to read stage, they are advised as they prevent delays in focusing when looking from deer to front sight to rear sight etc.

[SlabSlayKid]

i really wouldnt mind making any sort of scope legal for muzzle-loaders and im not just saying that because it would likely increase success. i know how the DNR wants to keep scopes off smoke-poles to keep them more primitive but with the new in-line muzzle-loaders with the pouder cylinders and advanced sabots the weapon is no longer primitive. adding a scope wouldnt make the already hi-tech gun any less primitive than what it already is. allowing this would also solve a lot of problems with people trying to figure out when they can and cant use a scope in MN because i know there are a few stipulations. also, it would make it a lot easier for those of us who prefer to hunt also in other states where scopes are allowed on a muzzle-loader. and then for the sportman who prefers a muzzle-loader over other firearms and uses it with a scope during the gun season, he/she wouldn't hav to go through with the hassel of removing it for the muzzle-loading season. just my 2 cents on the topic

[Traxxx]

I would also like to see that one changed. I feel more confident with the scope, in making a good shot, than with open sights.

[Quackaddict9]

Quote:

I would also like to see that one changed. I feel more confident with the scope, in making a good shot, than with open sights

my thoughts excatly. If they say its because of tradition, in the old days Muzzleloaders didn't have scopes on them. Well lots of people didnt have scopes on their rifles in the same days they didn't have them on Muzzleloaders.

but anyway point is that, I'd rather to make a good shot than wounding one, well I guess I'm better off not hunting with a smoke pole then!

[Musky Buck]

Definitely wasn't in zone 3, his body language showed his scope must have been the wrong one, I guess I had never seen a scope you could pop on and off especially on a muzzleloader. I think if this guy had a legal scope he would've continued walking to his vehicle, my truck has a definite CO look to it. Since the all-season license and to present I wonder what the muzzleloader numbers look like in MN since now no one has to decide rifle or muzzleloader, you can buy both. I'm either way on the scope front, my musket of course is a 50 Cal. Thompson Center Black Mountain Magnum with no scope option and my dad uses an old school gun as well so we'd have to sell our guns if we wanted scopes, but I wouldn't have an issue with scope use especially since it is after rifle season and deer are lots of times tougher to come by although in 2 musket days I saw more than hunting 6 rifle days, good luck everyone.

[96trigger]

Quote:

but anyway point is that, I'd rather to make a good shot than wounding one, well I guess I'm better off not hunting with a smoke pole then! crazy

I kind of think that is the why there are no scopes allowed. I actually think that there is no need for one. Sure I would put one on if I could, but I guess they are already giving us an advantage buy allowing modern inlines. I don't know if we really need more than that. I've never shot a deer with a scope and I have killed plenty of deer, 3 more this year, one shot kills on all three deer, open sights, fiber optic, rifled slug barrel.

Just a question, how many of you that wish your muzzleloaders could have scopes, use rifles with scopes to hunt deer?? It is pretty common around here that numerous people muzzy hunt with Quick detachable scopes and rings so they can use them during the "firearm season" then remove them for muzzy and of course, leave the scope at home. YEAH RIGHT... I

[BeezeHound]

Scopes on smokepoles would be great, but we probably won't see it anytime soon I'm guessing. Just seems to me that there would be much less wounded deer. Last year I found 4 carcasses around the farm during muzzleloader that weren't there after rifle season, and no, they weren't from me.

[goblueM]

I guess I'm old-school... the point of muzzleloaders is that they are traditional. They are still pretty accurate, my uncle has one that cost less than 300 bucks and he can hit a 5 inch group at 100 yards. More accurate than my smoothbore shotgun with a scope on it. Just take ethical shots within your range. If you want a scope, go rifle hunting

[BeezeHound]

I've got a muzzleloader for under 300 that I shoot very well too, have not lost a deer to date in the four years I've muzzy hunted. Just seems that at least some of the people that muzzy hunt around my area don't seem to practice much with open sights and more than likely take shots too far from their effective range. Scopes = less wounded deer. I guess if you don't want a scope, and it was legal, don't put one on if you want to remain traditional.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Scopes = less wounded deer.

Anyone else think that this statement is a little absurd. If you let the deer get close enough, you won't need a scope. In some cases, I think the scope has more range than the gun. Do we really want a guy with a scope taking 100+ yard shots with the ML, I don't know if that was what the ML season was intended for. I'm not saying that it should be legal or illegal, I really don't care, like I said, if it was legal, you bet I'd put one on, but I have a $200 muzzleloader that shoots the same if not better than my rifled slug barrel with open sights. I would have not problem shooting at a deer within 75 yards of me but I guess I wouldn't take a shot farther than that.

[BeezeHound]

Don't mean to make it sound like I'm going off on a rant, just having the option for a scope would be nice.

[deerminator]

Ditto on the traditional part. The whole point of having a muzzleloader season is the tradition. It's supposed to be a little harder. If you can't make a long range shot with open sights, than don't do it. I would think with practice, most people could be accurate within 100 yards with open sights, and would think most shots would be well within that anyways. Or that they should be without a scope.

To me, saying you should be able to use a scope on your muzzy during that dedicated season is like saying I should be able to use a crossbow during archery season. Not that my range would be extended so much, but because I could have a steadier, more consistent and accurate target point at longer bow ranges.

The whole point of the separate archery and muzzy seasons is because they're more traditional and harder to master. Today's compound bows and in-line muzzys are about as primitive as nuclear weapons. My personal belief is we don't need any more advantages at this point with these weapons.

Again, I'm not advocating wounding a deer, its just that if you can't make a long range shot with open sights, don't take it. Simple as that.

[BeezeHound]

I agree with you there trigger that 75 yards scope or no scope is the farthest I would consider shooting a deer with my muzzy. Where I hunt I'm lucky if I can get a shot much over 45 yards, I would just feel more comfortable personally putting the crosshairs on the vitals probably becuase every other gun I own with the exception of the shotgun has a scope on it and thats what I'm used to. I guess scopes would probably tempt some to make longer shots than capible from their muzzy, what it raelly comes down to is practice, practice, practice and taking good clean shots.

[sparcebag]

Heres a artical from a guy I've shot my 50 cal. hawkin with,I bought this rifle in 1972 and it yet shoots great out to 200 yds with 120 grain powder & round ball.

http://www.wctrib.com/articles/index.cfm?id=44412&section=outdoors,outdoor%20news

http://www.wctrib.com/articles/index.cfm?id=44411&section=outdoors,outdoor%20news

[candiru]

I have said it before. Google Bad Bull Muzzleloaders. They say they will shoot minute of angle accuracy. Customer claims of 1.5 inch groups at 300 yds. Aiming dead-on out to 300 yds. Way more than enough energy to kill a deer at 400 (their table doesn't go any higher). A big scope on one of these and you can outperform most centerfire rifles. Not a primitive weapon at all in my opinion. A special muzzleloader season was not created for things like this.

[candiru]

I think they should write the law to make the posession of a scope illegal by a ML hunter during the ML season to keep folks from using these quick-detach scopes.

[96trigger]

I think that there are an aweful lot of them out there, off when they are in the truck, on when they get to the stand.

[Musky Buck]

I agree trigger, it just amazes me how once we have our rules many are quick to bend them especially when it comes to deer hunting. I would have liked to turn the guy in but how can we prove the illegality ? Do I need to appear in court, I'm sure the guy would've said I didn't have a scope on it, would I need to watch the warden frisk this guy or how would I detain him, at gun point ? Same with trespassing on my land, it wasn't me on your property, these things are difficult to enforce. Same with the guys baiting on my neighbors farm where I couldn't rifle/musket hunt this year because if you are aware of bait, isn't there a 10 day or 2 week rule ? If I turn them in I can't imagine what the towns people would think to see their names in the paper for baiting. They would certainly know who turned them in. They took at least 9 deer off those corn piles by Halloween, how many since I don't know, they are still actively hunting. 4 guys and 20 tags, not good. It just bothers me how non-chalant people are with breaking rules that level the playing field somewhat like the guy taking off his scope.

[Hines R]

If we use the logic of the guy that wrote that articles then we would have to believe that his lead ball muzzleloader bullets are more lethal than a 300 win mag or rifle bullet or say a .50 caliber sabot style shotgun slug. Yes the wound channels are different though I'll give him that. I saw a wound display on the history channel showing the affects of different types of bullets and guns used in war.

I would like to have a scope on my in line muzzleloader. If I hunted in states that allowed scopes with a muzzleloader I'd have an issue figuring that one out. Currently I use a peep sight on my muzzleloader and I'm very accurate with that. I'm obviously not able to shoot accurately past 100 yards though so I won't be taking that kind of long range shot. If I had one of the scopes with the BDC reticles on it specifically made for muzzleloaders I'm sure I would take a poke out to probably 150 yards if I felt comfortable that I could make that shot. I don't think our state is going to make a change on this law so I'm really not concerned about it for the future. Most of the shots I have or take rifle hunting or muzzloader hunting are always under 100 yards. Sometimes I wish I had my bow. It would mean a lot more to me with a bow.

I suspect that they will make some changes to what types of muzzleloaders are legal, and the types of powders that can be utilized. The one factor that does limit the effectiveness of current in line muzzleloaders enforced by Minnesota is the fact that you can't use a scope. Now that some of the muzzleloader have electronic ignition systems, or can use smokeless powder they are going to have to define what is O.K. and what isn't. The technology is just going to keep advancing so it's going to be up to each individual state to set the limits.

Ryan

[SledNeck]

Muzzleloaders dont look very traditional to me

[Black_Bay]

Muzzleloaders dont look very traditional to me

Are you saying Davey Crockett didn't have one of those?

[BeezeHound]

Thats a tough spot Musky, like you said, you can't hold him there at gun point and it would be your word against his. Too bad about the baiting issue also. Rules are always going to be broken not matter if its hunting, fishing, etc. its just too bad not everyone can get caught.