Deer hunting as it should (could) be

[Wapiti]

They say deer in other states are just walking during the day in open feilds. Makes me wonder why they only do that here before and after gun season, it tells me that they are just a little smarter during the season. Smart a--

You know the old adage Barnez..."better than a dumb a--"!

[JustEnoughToEat]

DaveT- could you shoot me and E-mail I have a couple questions for you londog21 at yahoo thanks

[BARNEZ]

Originally Posted By: BARNEZ

They say deer in other states are just walking during the day in open feilds. Makes me wonder why they only do that here before and after gun season, it tells me that they are just a little smarter during the season. Smart a--

You know the old adage Barnez..."better than a dumb a--"!

Yes I do, I also know the old adage, that an apple doesnt fall far from the apple tree!

[96trigger]

Wow, I guess I was working too hard at getting a "trophy" this past week during the 3B season. This kind of got out of hand. Just to make a few comments.

On opening of the firearm (3A) while bowhuntinig, I saw 3 bucks 125+ one was probably 150+.

On PUBLIC land I was chasing 2 deer, one was a P&Y 8 pointer, the other a close to B&C 10 pointer. Came very close 2x but never got the shot off.

I would be for ending party hunting, when you get a buck, you are done. Sorry, its greedy to want more. Share the wealth. I could find lots of stuff to do up at deer camp if I didn't have a tag. Play cards, cook, read, go sit with a youngen or an old one and see if I could call one in for them. Lots of stuff, I would have more fun watching my DAd shoot one than probably shooting one myself.

As for antler restrictions, I am not 100% apposed to that either, I think it would be much better than EAB.

As for little johnnie, I am sick of all the exceptions for little johnnie and sally, we are teaching them nothing but instant gratification if we let them shoot whatever. Teach them what passing up little bucks mean, explain to them why it is done. Letting them shoot a deer at 10 and 11 years old on someone elses' tag is a much better step in the right direction. Easier to hook them when they are younger than 13, 14, 15, when doing anything with family can seem a little uncool for some.

[Powerstroke]

As my final comment on this mini-novel, I will say that I am glad that I am not one of the people who is in charge of making the decisions for deciding how to manage the deer herd in this state.

Many of them don't make much more than I do (I'm only a city-worker) and they deal with far more annoyed people than I do.

We all want something different, but I think we can all agree, deer hunting in MN is about the best its ever been. Everybody in MN has a chance to shoot a deer right now. It will will never be easy, but it sure is fun and that's why we all love it.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[theiceman]

I do all three season a,r,m, and its 8pt or bigger for myself. I have a 13yr old that hunts with me and I've explained to him the importance of letting smaller bucks walk. He also knows the choice is his to make. On personal note I'm for some sort of antler restrictions.

[kr8r.tom]

There is an antler point restriction: "at least one antler 3" long" anything smaller is considered a doe and you can shoot up to 4 of them in some areas. Bucks aren't protected in any form in this state, it's all about "we don't want to tell anyone what to shoot or what is a trophy buck" but they'll tell us what size of fish to keep and what is considered trophy size fish.

[Big Dave2]

There is an antler point restriction: "at least one antler 3" long" anything smaller is considered a doe and you can shoot up to 4 of them in some areas. Bucks aren't protected in any form in this state, it's all about "we don't want to tell anyone what to shoot or what is a trophy buck" but they'll tell us what size of fish to keep and what is considered trophy size fish.

I don't think fish slot sizes have much to do with creating "trophys." It has more to do with protecting the breeding females so that they keep producing MORE fish not necessarily BIGGER fish.

[Big Dave2]

I would be for ending party hunting, when you get a buck, you are done. Sorry, its greedy to want more. Share the wealth. I could find lots of stuff to do up at deer camp if I didn't have a tag. Play cards, cook, read, go sit with a youngen or an old one and see if I could call one in for them. Lots of stuff, I would have more fun watching my DAd shoot one than probably shooting one myself.

I guess all I am saying is that if your particular party is all for party hunting then why not? If no one cares whether or not THEY are the one that shoots the deer then why do you? If my party of 5 has 5 tags, whats the difference if we all shoot 1 deer or if one guy shoots 3 and 2 more guys shoot 1 each? Makes no difference to me, my buddies shoot my deer all the time, I still get to go out and enjoy the hunt plus I know that we will still have some venison even if I don't shoot one myself.

[kr8r.tom]

oh Boy, now were getting into another subject. being in the aquaculture field specifically raising of walleye, perch and crappie fingerlings back in the 80's and 90's I'll have to admit the d.n.r has made some strides in that department most of them were the ideas and lobbying of the private sector, slot limits ect. I never understood why the most soughtafter fish, the walleye, limit set at 6 and everyone who can get 6 will keep them(and most likeley go back for more when they're biting) and the northern pike limit at 4 and most people throw back. and i believe there are lakes where you can keep only one trophy fish over a certain size (26-28" for example) beyond the slot limit of that lake.

[96trigger]

Quote:

If my party of 5 has 5 tags, whats the difference if we all shoot 1 deer or if one guy shoots 3 and 2 more guys shoot 1 each? Makes no difference to me, my buddies shoot my deer all the time, I still get to go out and enjoy the hunt

I don't think party hunting in that respect is bad, I think its more the fact that some people abuse the party hunt rule and shoot numerous bucks a year on their wifes, friends, cousins tag. All I am saying is that the bucks would have more of a chance if that was one less hunter in the woods, and it also might make some hunters more picky about the buck they shoot if they could only get one and done. Thats all...

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: 96trigger

I would be for ending party hunting, when you get a buck, you are done. Sorry, its greedy to want more. Share the wealth. I could find lots of stuff to do up at deer camp if I didn't have a tag. Play cards, cook, read, go sit with a youngen or an old one and see if I could call one in for them. Lots of stuff, I would have more fun watching my DAd shoot one than probably shooting one myself.

I guess all I am saying is that if your particular party is all for party hunting then why not? If no one cares whether or not THEY are the one that shoots the deer then why do you? If my party of 5 has 5 tags, whats the difference if we all shoot 1 deer or if one guy shoots 3 and 2 more guys shoot 1 each? Makes no difference to me, my buddies shoot my deer all the time, I still get to go out and enjoy the hunt plus I know that we will still have some venison even if I don't shoot one myself.

So if you shoot a nice buck opening day and you have to stop hunting you are upset, but if other guys in your party fill up all the tags opening day you are fine with it. Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me.

Party hunting is only a tradition because it was needed way back when there were very few deer around. In my opinion it is the first rule that needs to be changed to help our herd.

[kr8r.tom]

the only reason i can see why it's still on the books is because it would be the hardest to enforce. senerio: little johnny's dad is trigger happy and on opening morning shoots a 3" spike he thought had to be only a 2" legal he/she deer, aw shucks ground shrinkage (thats common with johnnys dad thats why suzy never took to deer hunting because of dads itchy finger). untill the d.n.r puts little johnny in a dark room with a spotlight in his eyes and water dripping on his head he ain't going to spill his guts that his loving father stole his buck tag and told him he'd be just as happy shooting a doe for his first deer.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

If my party of 5 has 5 tags, whats the difference if we all shoot 1 deer or if one guy shoots 3 and 2 more guys shoot 1 each? Makes no difference to me, my buddies shoot my deer all the time, I still get to go out and enjoy the hunt

I don't think party hunting in that respect is bad, I think its more the fact that some people abuse the party hunt rule and shoot numerous bucks a year on their wifes, friends, cousins tag. All I am saying is that the bucks would have more of a chance if that was one less hunter in the woods, and it also might make some hunters more picky about the buck they shoot if they could only get one and done. Thats all...

The problem here is that what you seem to be describing is already ILLEGAL. If I shoot a deer and use a tag from someone that is not in my party, hunting with me at the time, then I am ILLEGAL. Another law is not going to stop people from commiting the first crime.

[mrklean]

I see this thread getting locked down any day now. Interesting to read thats for sure

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

Originally Posted By: 96trigger

I would be for ending party hunting, when you get a buck, you are done. Sorry, its greedy to want more. Share the wealth. I could find lots of stuff to do up at deer camp if I didn't have a tag. Play cards, cook, read, go sit with a youngen or an old one and see if I could call one in for them. Lots of stuff, I would have more fun watching my DAd shoot one than probably shooting one myself.

I guess all I am saying is that if your particular party is all for party hunting then why not? If no one cares whether or not THEY are the one that shoots the deer then why do you? If my party of 5 has 5 tags, whats the difference if we all shoot 1 deer or if one guy shoots 3 and 2 more guys shoot 1 each? Makes no difference to me, my buddies shoot my deer all the time, I still get to go out and enjoy the hunt plus I know that we will still have some venison even if I don't shoot one myself.

So if you shoot a nice buck opening day and you have to stop hunting you are upset, but if other guys in your party fill up all the tags opening day you are fine with it. Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me.

Party hunting is only a tradition because it was needed way back when there were very few deer around. In my opinion it is the first rule that needs to be changed to help our herd.

First of all, filling out all our tags on opening morning has NEVER happened and I think would be a lot harder feet to accomplish than just one guy filling theirs.

Second of all, if we did fill out on opening morning, I would consider it a successful hunt and we would all be done. We could either go home early or butcher all those deer or go to the bar. At least I would have company doing it. I would not mind as long as we put the meat in the freezer.

Hunters and hunting only exist because we are the sole source of controlling deer populations. If we start harvesting less and less deer because of restrictions then you will see that hunters will no longer be needed and the Anti's will get their wish as the deer population will then be controlled by some sort of birth control drug fed to the deer.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Hunters and hunting only exist because we are the sole source of controlling deer populations. If we start harvesting less and less deer because of restrictions then you will see that hunters will no longer be needed and the Anti's will get their wish as the deer population will then be controlled by some sort of birth control drug fed to the deer.

I don't think anyone on here was saying that you can't shoot multiple deer, I think some were just mentioning that you shouldn't be able to shoot more than one buck a year. If you want to buy 4 bonus tags and you can in your area, go ahead, but I think if you shoot any buck with horns, you should be done shooting anything with horns.

It doesn't matter though, it would be impossible to enforce, no way to ever get someone to caugh up weather he or she actually shot the deer. BD2, I don't know where you hunt or what kind of an area it is, managed or intensive, but I guess that when the DNR explicitely and repeatedly states that only one legally antlered deer can be taken a year, that is what they mean. I don't think they ever intended it to go beyond that with party hunting. If that were the case, we'd be able to buy multiple buck tags.

[propster]

Dave T, this is Keith from Cannon Falls. What a great post. We've been gone hunting and I just read all 15 pages. You wrote and subsequently supported some very good points, and did it very well. Unfortunately it seems that while most did, not everyone recognized your intent or gets it. If all you readers thought the bucks from Kansas were good (and they are), you should have seen this crew's hunt in Iowa last year. I'm glad we're all able to share our opinions on this subject and for the most part have kept it civil. I'll throw my 2 cents in for what it's worth. Party hunting, when exploited as it is by some, is not a good thing. I don't see how it makes sense to allow one person to kill everyone or anyone else's buck, regardless whether it is "okay" with them. As long as we have too many does, do your party hunting for does after you kill your buck. Managing for quality doesn't have to mean less deer - some people don't get that. The various gun seasons are too long in zone 3. For those that don't care about antlers, when a big buck and a doe walk by and you have a choice, guess what's getting shot? A lot of you aren't being honest with yourselves about your goals and what gets you excited. Dave and several other writers are correct - if many of you who are dissenting could experience the natural rutting activity and multiple mature buck sightings that generally occur more often out of state than they do in Minnesota, you'd like it and want to experience more of it. I have nothing against gun hunting, I recognize it as a necessity. But there's no question it starts too early, at least in the southern half of the state. Save some of the smaller bucks and we'll all have more mature bucks walking around in years to come. Kids or first time hunters should shoot whatever they want, as long as it does something for them. After the first one or two, how many small bucks does a person need to shoot in order to have hunted? Whatever happened to trying to regularly improve what we do or set higher goals for oursleves? I know some of these opinions will raise some dander, but that's all right. Difference of opinion is what makes the world interesting. I just wanted to say great hunt Dave and I agree with you 100%.

[DaveT]

Hey Keith

Good to hear from you, I'm working on the next one to stir up the pot some more. Tell Silk to get in on this, he'd be good at ruffling feathers, too.

[DaveT]

Hey Keith

Good to hear from you, I'm working on the next one to stir up the pot some more. Tell Silk to get in on this, he'd be good at ruffling feathers, too.

[FISHINGURU]

you'd see real rut activity if the gun season wasn't right during the heart of the rut in MN...the smart deer hear and smell all these hunters in the woods and go lay down in the nearest corn field....i see alot of big bucks and alot of deer in general the week before gun opener...i had 15-20 deer sighting days with half of them being bucks and half those bucks were big....i've seen 1 big buck since then...instead of natural chasing and rutting activity i see deer running for their lives and on full alert...there's alot of big bucks in southern mn but they are big for a reason...you don't see them very often.

i don't even see any of the 4's, 6's, and basket 8's ever after gun season cause they all got shot....they are to easy of targets during that time of the year.

now u can hunt multiple gun seasons and get all these bonus tags and intensive harvests....the bad part about that is half of the doe's people are shooting are nub bucks.

you got the guys out there "party" hunting shooting 10 deer a year...like anyone needs 10 deer...some guys just think they are cooler and better hunters by the amount of deer they kill...if its brown its down....then u got the guys that put the site tag on but don't register them...how is dnr supposed to keep track of deer numbers?

i think the biggest problem of all is when the gun opener is imo.

[Big Dave2]

i think the biggest problem of all is when the gun opener is imo.

[FISHINGURU]

[quote name='Big Dave2

I don't agree with this statement though. If you have 10 tags in a group' date=' why can't you shoot 10 deer? If a party eats all they kill, who are we to tell them they don't need that much? Do you ever take a limit while fishing? If so, why? Do you need a limit? Why not just take 2 and leave the rest.

Are you picky while Grouse or Pheasant hunt? Do you only shoot the big ones and leave the little ones so they will grow into "trophys"? [/quote']

thats why i put " " around party...there is a difference between real party hunting and the excuse of party hunting so people can tag more deer for themselves by themselves...if your family has land and your all out there every year hunting together and filling tags thats fine by me.

to answer your questions...no i never take a limit while fishing..i actually barely ever keep a fish at all...i fish for fun and every bluemoon i keep a meal...if i get mounts i like the replicas and just take a pic, measure and weigh the fish and back she goes to lay more eggs.

my ethics don't waiver for anything i do....i always want the biggest and smartest animals/fish if i'm gonna kill/catch one...i'd rather spend all day searching for that big eye or pike and not catch a fish then sit over by the lily pads and catch little panfish all day.

i'll wait for the buck i want since i only get 1 buck tag a year...if i don't end up getting a big buck i don't fill my tag...if i feel like i need some venison i'll harvest a doe.

if people went that route there would be more big bucks and the doe to buck population would be more even for a healthy herd.

if your new to hunting or don't get out much i can see if you want to shoot the first thing you see.

if your trying to get more and bigger bucks in your area or your looking for a challenge you'd want to let those little bucks walk and just harvest a doe if you need some meat in your freezer.

all them smaller/decent bucks would be real nice in another year or two but a small portion will ever live to see that day...all these "doe" tags are being used on tons of nub bucks that didn't barely get to live for more then half a year.

it really isn't about being picky its more about the challenge and trying to make the deer in my area bigger...or letting the fish go where i fish so they get bigger, ect.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

to answer your questions...no i never take a limit while fishing..i actually barely ever keep a fish at all...i fish for fun and every bluemoon i keep a meal...if i get mounts i like the replicas and just take a pic, measure and weigh the fish and back she goes to lay more eggs.

my ethics don't waiver for anything i do....i always want the biggest and smartest animals/fish if i'm gonna kill/catch one...i'd rather spend all day searching for that big eye or pike and not catch a fish then sit over by the lily pads and catch little panfish all day.

Don't get me wrong these are great ethics to have!

My only question I have then to all of the trophy hunters is, if it is part of your personal ethics to release all large fish because they should be preserved and allowed to grow even larger, Then why do you want to shoot large trophy deer at all? Most of you say you want to hunt them for the challenge of being able to outwit one of the smartest most wary creatures in the woods. Well then why not just snap a picture just like you would do with that 10 lb walleye? We all know you can shoot so why take the animal just to prove it? It's not about the meat you say. If you get yourself in a position to be able to take a nice photo, then that should be satisfying enough, right? If it is all about the trophy then leave all bucks walk because what is a trophy to you may not be to the next guy. Where does it end? You may say that an 8 pointer is a trophy and shoot it. The guy on the neighboring land may be holding out for 10 and 12 pointers and you just shot his next years trophy, just the same as if I shot a 4 pointer and it could be your next years 8 pointer.

I think at this point we should just agree to disagree.

BTW, I would rather sit in the lily pads and catch small panfish to eat and know there is still a chance that a large northern or bass could still eat my waxworm.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

thats why i put " " around party...there is a difference between real party hunting and the excuse of party hunting so people can tag more deer for themselves by themselves...

I may have said this already but what you are describing here is already illegal. If 1 law does not make this problem go away then surely 2 laws will not help either.