Bad Legislation we need to act fast

Muskiefool · March 7, 2008

This is the worst thing to happen to Pike and Muskie ever, this legislator has been influenced by Anti Muskie and anti Pike regulation interests, they want to spear all MN lakes and they want to take away legislative powers of the commissioner to regulate Pike, this could mean the complete collapse of the northern Pike fishery and harm the large pike in the 26 Designated Muskie Lakes, this is also throwing away the Long Range Muskie and Northern Pike program that all fishing interests worked for over a year on, Ive also talked with one of the Dark house assn. to ask if this is a push by the entire group, he said it was the first he had heard of it and did not support any legislation that limited the Commissioners power to regulate Pike or any fish, and felt it is the actions of a small number of people, not their entire group, I would hope that we could contact as many people as we know to stop this legislation, contact your friends and your legislators along with Rep Bud Heidgerken, we need to stop this in its tracks, I am not anti spearing and this is not a anti spearing effort, I and every member at the Esox Workshops supports and feels the need to have the spearing community enjoy its pastime, but this legislation will jeopardize the resource, please take a few Minutes to E-mail then write him and your Rep on this matter.

Thank You

John Underhill

H.F. No. 3676, as introduced - 85th Legislative Session (2007-2008) Posted on Feb 29, 2008

1.1A bill for an act

1.2relating to game and fish; providing possession and daily limits for northern pike;

1.3authorizing spearing of northern pike statewide; requiring rulemaking; amending

1.4Minnesota Statutes 2006, section 97C.401, subdivision 2; proposing coding for

1.5new law in Minnesota Statutes, chapter 97C.

1.6BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA:

1.7 Section 1. Minnesota Statutes 2006, section 97C.401, subdivision 2, is amended to read:

1.8 Subd. 2. Walleye; northern pike. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (, a person

1.9may take no more than one walleye larger than 20 inches and one northern pike larger

1.10than 30 inches daily.

1.11( The restrictions in paragraph (a) do not apply to boundary waters.

1.12 Sec. 2. [97C.407] NORTHERN PIKE.

1.13(a) The possession and daily limit for northern pike is three, of which no more than

1.14one may be larger than 30 inches.

1.15( Northern pike may be taken by spearing on all lakes within the state.

1.16© Notwithstanding sections 97C.001 and 97C.005 or other law to the contrary,

1.17the commissioner may not adopt rules to take northern pike that are inconsistent with

1.18this section.

1.19 Sec. 3. RULEMAKING.

1.20The commissioner of natural resources shall amend Minnesota Rules, chapters 6262,

1.216264, and 6266, to conform with sections 1 and 2. The commissioner may use the good

1.22cause exemption under Minnesota Statutes, section 14.388, subdivision 1, clause (3), to

2.1amend the rules. Minnesota Statutes, section 14.386, does not apply except as provided

2.2under Minnesota Statutes, section 14.388.

2.3EFFECTIVE DATE.This section is effective the day following final enactment.

Bud Heidgerken ® 13A

* 237 State Office Building

100 Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.

Saint Paul, Minnesota 55155

(651) 296-4317

(800) 339-6071

E-mail: [email protected]

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RK · March 7, 2008

Hiya -

Folks - this is one bad piece of legislation.

Regardless of your views on spearing or other management issues, stuff like this should scare the daylights out of you if you care about Minnesota's fisheries.

This bill would lift the spearing ban on Minnesota's designated muskie lakes. The battle over those lakes was one of the ugliest moments in MN fishing history (I was there for some of it). It's not a battle we want to begin again at a time when all MN anglers need to be working together to tackle some of the very challenging issues we have before us. For 26 lakes, vs the 4,000-odd others where spearing is allowed, better to let sleeping dogs lie.

This bill would toss all the efforts the DNR has made toward developing quality pike fisheries in the state out the window. All the special and experimental regulations on lakes like Lake of the Woods, Upper Red and dozens of others - regulations that have created quality pike fisheries that haven't been found in the state since the 1950s - would be nullified by this legislation.

What's worse though is that it would completely remove from the DNR Commissioner's office - and by extension the DNR itself - any authority to manage pike in the state of Minnesota. Basically it would take the management of pike, which are found in 4,000 lakes statewide, away from the fisheries professionals and put it in the hands of legislators, many of whom quite likely don't know a fish from a filing cabinet. This would set a horrible precedent. When fisheries management becomes a contest of influence at the Capitol, we ALL loose.

I would urge you to contact this Representative, by phone or email, and (respectfully) ask him to withdraw this bill.

Rob Kimm

Rebel9921 · March 7, 2008

By all means Im definitely against this... but I am also curious about the views of FMers who spears towards this bill???

eyehead · March 7, 2008

This is a bad deal for all of us Pike anglers out there.... I first hand am seeing what lifting special regulations and allowing spears does to a trophy pike fishery. I target Pike on a certain body of water close to my home that has started to drop since the lift.I am by no means against spearing but there should be a few lakes left untouched. I will defienitly be voicing my opinion on this one to the Legislaters. Now, off to the Muskie Expo

cjac · March 7, 2008

Here's your "who to contact" list of MN reps......

Please take a few minutes to do so, it REALLY does make a difference.

MN House reps

Chris

cjac · March 7, 2008

I actually have a muskie lake in my District so I really made the point of protecting my interests and her own District resources in the email I sent to my rep. I certainly hope that will be enough to gain her support!

I also made note of the Dec 2007 closed season legislation that was designed to help protect the muskie resource, and this is 180 degrees in the opposite direction with it's removal of the Commishioners office having control.

I'll let you know what I hear in return.

Chris Haider

Hammer Handle · March 7, 2008

I guess I could be wrong, but I don't think opening up spearing on all lakes will impact the fishing that much.

I fish on a variety of lakes, some allow spearing and some do not. Some banned spearing years ago, and I see no difference in the fish. I understand that each lake can be different though.

Jameson · March 7, 2008

I must of missed something. Where in the bill does it state anything about spearing muskies? All I see in the bill is simplification of our regulations.

I'd like to see the bill pass. Opening up the "muskie" lakes, typically large lakes, would only help to spread-out the spearing pressure on all of our lakes. It would actually remove some spearing pressure from other lakes. This might just help out all of our MN lakes by spreading the pressure around.

If folks were able to spear Pike on lakes with Muskies in them, wouldn't removing the competition against the Muskies actually help them thrive?

Black_Bay · March 7, 2008

This bill doesn't take away and regulatory ability of the DNR Commissioner. It specifically states that other than sections 97C.001, (experimental regs) and 97C.005 (special regs) or other law to the contrary, the commissioner may not adopt rules to take northern pike that are inconsistent with this section. That just means that the DNR must use experimental and special regs to manage pike. They can't change the reg to be say 10 pike of any size statewide. That would be inconsistent with this rule and not an experimentl or special reg.

Spearing of muskies would still be against the law.

Hammer Handle · March 7, 2008

I agree with you Jameson.

I guess I am going to call and support the bill....

fishcast · March 7, 2008

It appears there are some disagreements as to what exactly this legislation is trying to do as far as pike regs. Can someone explain, or confirm what exactly it is.

Personally, if this did remove or prevent possible future special regulations for northern pike I think this would be bad for all of fishing. If this is the case I would be quick to respond with my opinion against the legislation.

I have only minimal experience and understanding of northern pike, but from what I have seen northern pike affect a fishery much more than most people think. The way I have seen it northern pike could be termed as a "keystone" species in our waters, because of the drastic affects the size structure and balance of the northern pike population can have not only for themselves, but also there affect on the rest of the lakes species like the baitfish, panfish, bass, walleye, etc. And this is why I feel regulations that would promote a good balance and size structure for northern pike are necessary to insure good fishing in the future in many cases.

Also as far as opening designated muskie lakes to northern pike spearing, I believe that could also cause some definite issues. There are very few muskie lakes and each of those lakes contain relatively few muskie, and they should be protected. I myself sight fish for northerns with a jigging rod and just this winter I saw a real large fish come in fairly fast on my lure that I assumed to be a muskie at first due to its size. But right after is left I was second guessing myself cause the lake has large notherns in it as well and it is sometimes hard to tell when stuff is happening fast like that.

As Bob Mehsikomer says "the future of fishing is in our hands."

Huey · March 7, 2008

To me, it looks like this bill would freeze the northern limit at 3, with 1 over 30". Lake by lake regs, like the 26-40" slot on Red, would still be allowed. It also would only allow 1 walleye over 20" per daily/possesion limit. Nothing is mentioned about the daily walleye limit. Maybe this is to allow a reduction of the limit in the future from say 6 to 4. That's a guess though.

The big change would be that the spearing ban would be lifted. The current spearing ban does not make sense. You can spear on some muskie lakes, other muskie lakes you can't. It seems spearing should be allowed on all muskie lakes or none.

I think the ban should be lifted statewide. I spear on a muskie lake (that I also muskie fish on) and you can tell the difference between a pike and a muskie under the ice. If you have any doubt, you just don't drop your spear.

Huey

Ps I'd rather have the DNR decide these things than the legislature.

Huey · March 7, 2008

For more info on the bill, see below:

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H3676.0.html&session=ls85

cjac · March 8, 2008

Hi,

In a nutshell, this bill would take control of the pike and muskie management out of the hands of well schooled and educated experts, who listen to and are influenced by sportsman's groups (Mn Darkhouse Assn, Muskies Inc, etc), and put it in the hands of those not inclined necessarily to represent our interests, studies, facts, and truth. It would be transferred to those seeking re-election, public approval, i.e. the Legislative body. The reps and organizations that give us what we have today would be a little yelp in a room full of big dogs barking away.

If you say "Things are fine now, why bother, or what's the big deal?"...that's a direct result of what's been done to get to this point and the bumps and bruises absorbed along the way. This bill would be a 100 steps backward after several long and trying steps forward.

It's the pike interest that is most at jeopardy. "Snot rockets", "slimers", "hammer handles".....those are labels that need to be shed. Pike play a critical role in a lake's balance, and need to be regarded in better terms than those mentioned above. This bill would squelch all efforts, slots, regs, that have been introduced to turn things around.

Ever catch a 40 inch pike in Minnesota? Sad thing is most will say "no". I have and it's a treat....amazing fish, but far too few and far between. If this goes thru, the chances of getting more anglers saying "yes" goes down.

Opening spearing to the 26 closed lakes??? I honestly don't know enough to comment. However, most spearers are conscientious enough and know what they're doing. If not, the "bad apples" will likely still do "whatever" despite of laws. That's where the Darkhouse Assn helps, but if this goes into effect, thier influence is greatly diminished. Spearing has come a long ways, thanks to the efforts of these organizations working TOGETHER to make an impact.

My point of mentioning that my Rep has a muskie lake in her District was to provoke interest, along with mention of the closed muskie season to prove these issues are of legislative interest.

Anyhow, after all that, if you're in this forum, if you chase pike and/or muskies, this is something you would rather not see go thru. I just got back from the Mn Muskie Expo, place was busy! If you choose to, and please do, contact your Rep, sell the economic benefits (Unfortunately, money talks....) of a viable pike and muskie fishery in addition to your own wants of tangling with a big pike or muskie.

Chris

Random guy · March 8, 2008

I have been working on this most of the morning. We have all worked very hard to get Upper Red back up to speed and we ended up with a trophy pike lake ALONG with a great pike population that helps to drive the economy all the way from the twin cities to the small burg of Waskish. This was mostly due to the local fishery boys putting hours and hours of hard work into it and the regulations doing a good job protecting pike growth and the harvest of solid spawners.

Upper Red lake owes many thanks to the local fishery department taking the time to listen to the sportsmen, guides, resort owners and just about anybody and they did a great job in my eyes. Now take away that control and we will have a mess again. There is a reason they are called experts, we need to make sure they can continue to do their job and keep these regs in place because, THEY ARE WORKING.

sheephead2 · March 8, 2008

Here is my opinion why not leave the 26 lakes alone a designate as trophy Esox....We are all in this together I don't like seeing politicians have control over our DNR....Bottom line comes down to we all like to fish lets work it out so politicians don't make our decisions for us.... If we have trophy esox it helps out Guides, resorts, baitshops...... You won't have to travel to Canada..... If Mn Viking can not win us a Supper Bowl why not say to other States ya at least we have Trophy Esox Lakes.....That will shut up them Packer Fans.....

bassNspear · March 8, 2008

im huge into spearing, as you all may know, and as far as I look at it, the 26 lakes shoudl stay the way that it is. As a dark house spear fisherman, i have 9,000 other lakes that I can go out a spear all winter long, i dont need these other 26 that might have trophys in them, becuase im going out for the big hawgs. Thats not what spearing is all about IMO. I believe that we spear to enjoy the fact of us cutting a monster hole, and not only watching fish come in, but watching other fish as well. Its not about getting big fish IMO, its about the enjoyment of seeing fish.

I believe that if its a true muskie lake, such as Cass or Tonka, there should be no spearing on the lake.

b1gf1sh1 · March 9, 2008

where do i start? lol. somebody said that these 26 lakes would help spread out the pressure to the other 6000 heavily speared lakes. lol. c'mon. thats silly to even say. ok. i can go spear a pike and give it no chance to survive but i can't use an artificial light to ''catch'' fish. (wyoming is the only other state where it's illegal). i can skewer a pike with 9 inch tines with barbs on them but i can only use one line to ''catch'' fish. my point i guess is all the rules this state has drives me batty sometimes. most are unnessassary and even more are pretty simple minded. sunfish can't be used for bait? what's that about. arent we over run by them even worse than carp? only thing i can think of is they are to easy to catch as bait and bait shops will go broke. talk to a bait store and they will tell you bait makes no money. they rely on sales to survive. sorry i'm off subject here but i did say these rules drive me batty. when i sign my name on that license i am agreeing to follow the rules laid down by this state's commissioner of the dnr. takeing any power away from an appointed official is bad. it just sounds like these legislaters can't back up what they want to do with enough facts for the commitioner to do what they are reccomending so they need to bypass his authority to do it. that would be like shooting the deer because a wolf was going to atack it in 6 years anyway. yup. thats right. that made no sense. what is their angle on this? is this to get young people interested in the sport of fishing? it just MAKES NO SENSE. why make any moves on 26 lakes that have been thriveing for years as a result of the regulations already in place. this makes no sense and i can only believe this to shall not pass.

hanson · March 9, 2008

Originally Posted By: sheephead2

We are all in this together I don't like seeing politicians have control over our DNR....

And I am in full agreement with that statement.

Not sure what is going on with our state right now but there are more regulation changes occurring that don't seam to make any sense right now. Changing the walleye opener was one of them.

I think the DNR needs to have control over our resources and the politicians need to worry about more important things.

harvey lee · March 10, 2008

Agreed Chris.

bassNspear · March 10, 2008

i agree as well. there the people that will always know whats going on

Muskiefool · March 10, 2008

Here is a list of all the house reps drop them a line and let them know how we feel about the legislature by-passing the DNR and risking the destruction of our Natural resources, these people are elected and can be deep six-ed just as fast, I have no respect for the people that took advantage of this guy and if he's that gullible to author a bill to remove the commissioners powers on roughly the same day the legislature voted unanimously to grant the commissioner more powers he's to stupid to do the job and should step aside, the guys that have persuaded him should step forward and apologize to the outdoorsman of MN, we are watching, will not let you compromise our fish(Pike or Perch) for your short sighted revenge against Anglers and the DNR.

[email protected]

Hammer Handle · March 10, 2008

I hate to double post as this is being dicussed under the spearing forum too, but I want to be educated as I don't understand why this bill is a "big deal".

As far as the bill giving the right to "take over", it doesn't. I don't see it. What are they taking control of that they don't already govern?

It is extremely important to read the information without letting personal feelings get in the way. Like I said, i could go either way and see this as no big deal. What am I missing? If I am missing something, I want to know.

Basically, the bill is opening of spearing in some lakes that didn't have it before. Spearers and anglers still have to follow slots and limits.

10,000 Casts · March 10, 2008

I agree, let the experts of the dnr make the decessions.

IMO, The state legislators need to look at other issues in the State that are alot more important than lifting a spearing ban and contolling the DNR. WHAT ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS THAT ARE MAKING BUDGET CUTS AND OUR HIGHWAY SYSTEM THAT WAS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY AND IS NOW ONE OF THE WORST.

b1gf1sh1 · March 10, 2008

for me personally and i think others are concerned mostly with these 26 lakes being opened up to spearing are going to end up like the rest that allow spearing. hammerhandle city. all these lakes have big pike in them and those numbers are there because they are not speared. spearing was not allowed for a reason and it worked. now what? decades of perfect lake management is left to somebody who orders a walleye dinner and won't be able to tell if he/she was givin a perch? name a lake that gets speared over 500 acres with a ''healthy'' number of 40'' pike. i know my personal feeling about spearing fish is irrelevent so i won't say the extent of my disgust for it. it's within the rules laid down by the commissioner of the DNR so i'll just let it be. these same ''experts'' wanted the walleye opener changed because of mothers day.did you hear the arguement? well i think... yes those words... ''i think'' with the climate changeing i ''believe'' they will be breeding sooner so it ''should'nt'' affect the ... get this... reproduction process. guy did'nt even know the word spawn. so the big deal is they are'nt experts and don't listen to the true experts on the sport. just a bunch of speculation and guessing. they are barbers doing brain surgery. and it's just not right.

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