Wolves

[Quackaddict9]

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Sounds like a close call and he's lucky to have made it back without a fight on his hands.

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if they started a fight... i woulda started shooting already.

[BobT]

Pretty tough to do with three wolves on your back and teeth at your throat.

Bob

[Steve Foss]

I've read this thread with great interest, as I always do when I come across people expressing their fear/respect/opinions about wolves.

How wolves behave with potential prey is complex and inconsistent, and does not lend itself to sweeping generalizations. I think Bob's opinions have merit here. I also think they come across as too certain.

While it is better to present yourself to a wolf or mountain lion as dominant and fearless (standing tall and staring at the animal during a close encounter), such behavior does not ensure the animal will go away, just as running or stooping lower to the ground does not ensure you'll be attacked.

Of course, wolves DO like their occasional doggy treats (if they really wanted to eat dogs all the time, there'd be a whole lot more dead and eaten dogs than there are), which is one reason I simply don't take my dogs into the woods up here. Well, that and dogs are very BAD company when you're trying to photograph wild animals and birds.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw a few cents of my own into an interesting thread, and don't mean to ruffle any feathers, uh, fur.

[grousehunter]

yeah, i agree running is not the smart thing and wouldnt do it if i was alone, but he was trying to get his dog out of there mostly. They were getting closer and closer before he even started to walk back to the truck....definatly a toss up when your really in the situation i guess.

[fishermann222]

Wolves LOVE to eat dogs up here in AK. Just this year they have come into 2 villages and an area right outside fairbanks and killed and eaten dogs.

Here is a great article to read, the link is to the AK department of fish and games HSOforum.

wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/ techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13_full.pdf

It is a long read but worth it.

[Steve Foss]

I used the link and tried to go there and it took me to the main page. Couldn't find the pdf in question.

[Bandit]

I really don't know if I would want to try to stare down a wild animal, I have done this with my dogs, granted, they are not wild, but it may provoke them. It is a challenge that could have a bad outcome. My lab gives in, but my 2 year old shepard goes kind of nuts. But I guess if you are close enough for a stare down with a wolf, it probably does not matter. That wolf would never catch me anyway, it would be slipping in toooooo much poo.

[fishermann222]

http://wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13_full.pdf

There is the link again. It is a very large pdf so it may take a while to load, let me know if it does not work this time.

I would be much more afraid of black bears down there then wolves.

[tealitup]

I think I posted my experience with 3 wolves this year. Whereas they followed my scent drag to my deer stand. Then one actually put his paws on the second rung of the ladder. I made a move and they just sat and looked at me.

I then ran down the ladder as fast as I could trying to scare them. They did run away as fast as they could.

However, they knew I was there and were not afraid at first. Also, we have had wolves circle our hunting shack smelling and looking for some goodies. This has really only started to happen in the last 2-3 years. Before it was a rare moment to see one.

I loved seeing the wolves in the stand and was not afraid, but it seems they are getting more brave around humans. On the other hand if it was a mountain lion that did that - I know what I would have done

[BobT]

Did someone suggest staring down a predator? I don't believe that is a very wise option either. If memory serves me correctly, the best thing you can do is face them (so your can keep an eye on them as well as not appearing as prey), avoid eye contact, make yourself appear as large as you can, and back away slowly. Avoiding eye contact, at least with dogs, I believe is an act of submission. It may be similar with other predators but I may be wrong.

Bob

EDIT: CORRECTION!!!!! I have done a little digging and the consensus is DO MAKE EYE CONTACT!

Here's generally what I found.

• If the worst happens and you find yourself in a confrontation, your behavior can make the difference between a story you tell your friends and one they tell about you. Convincing an aggressor that you are more than it wants to tackle is the first and biggest step in winning any confrontation.

• Make yourself look as big as possible, stand tall, spread your arms and open your coat.

• Maintain eye contact, speak loudly and firmly and bare your teeth.

• If you can, move uphill or maneuver slowly to get a height advantage. If there's a rock, stump or vehicle handy, get up on it.

• Do not turn your back, even to get uphill. If you do decide to back up, be sure of your footing. Slipping could trigger an attack and poor footing leaves you less able to fight if an attack occurs.

• Do not stoop, squat or bend.

• Do not make quick movements or sudden noises that may trigger an attack.

• Do not run: They run down prey for a living!

If all this fails and you are attacked, your option is limited: Fight back! With the exception of Grizzlies, they most likely intend to eat you! So playing dead isn't going to work. Fight back with everything you have. Use a stick, a club, your hands, your backpack, a fishing pole or your camera. There are no rules!

Finally, in wolf country you are more likely to be struck by lightning or die in a automobile accident than to be killed by a wolf.

[smnduck]

How about a limited season on wolves. Trapping/Hunting along those lines. It might ensure that they have a fear of humans and allow for a limited harvest of one of our resources that could also generate some revenue. I think it would be great to get a chance to hunt one, imagine calling in a 100+lb wolf into a ground blind. I know that some wolf lovers would go balistic over the idea but look at the tag fees as a way to cover the predetation costs the DNR pays out. Just an idea where ideas are shared.

[SDbowhunter]

I agree with Bob's Post while I have never had a wolf encounter I did stare down a rabid dog following that exact advice. My brother and I were riding our bikes and this dog came up and bit the tires of his bike we got away but on our way back we both rode side by side real slow standing up on the pedals. The dog left us alone. Later it bite a neighbor and was tested positive for rabies. I have stared down many viscous dogs and assume a wolf would react the same. But personally I would love to see a wolf in the wild.

[Steve Foss]

I've been reading everything I can get my hands on for 35 years about wolves. They always have fascinated me.

That being said, I don't generally chime in much on wolf threads here on FM because such threads tend to get very opinionated and sometimes pretty harsh. I'm glad to see that hasn't happened with this thread.

When I'm out photographing in the woods around Ely, which is a lot of the time, I carry strong bear-strength pepper spray and a canned air horn. The spray is self evident, and at the International Wolf Center when the wolves get in a fight that looks like it might be too destructive, the staff use the canned air horn to stop them. The sound is so loud it knocks them right down, they say.

I've never had to pull either of them out, and I've spent a goodly bit of time the last two winters in camo trying to call predators in to the screaming rabbit call. Used to hunt them with a gun that way, now I'm doing it with a camera. Fox, coyote, wolf, bobcat, lynx and mountain lion are all in the area here. I've had a LOT more luck hunting fox and coyote that way in the Dakotas than I have trying to call them in here. Don't know why.

Anyway, some might consider me foolish for doing this while unarmed. Sometimes I think it's a bit foolish myself, but I've practiced with pepper spray and the horn to make sure I know how to get them into action fast if they are ever needed.

If I remember the DNR plan for wolf management, a hunting/trapping season is possible but not for several more years. The new DNR guy who was just installed to run the program said it's more likely there'd be a trapping than a hunting season.

fisherman222, thanks for providing the link. I'll give it a read.

[Muthagoose]

Ive posted before about wolves trying to attack my dog in the yard and how when in #'s of strength like to follow trappers.. Nothing makes you realize your being considered than a couple standing in the middle of the trail with others flanking you..

We only have 4 more years till a season can be on wolves.

Ive seen as many as 13 in front of our cabin standing over a deer kill on the ice.. Might impressive/ mighty gruesome watching one hold the doe while the others eat the intestines and hind qtrs while the animal is alive, but thats how nature is.

A couple years ago a researcher was killed in Canada by wolves..

[tealitup]

STFCATFISH,

Have you seen a mountain lion in the wild in Minnesota? Get a picture?

If you ever want some other area to photograph - I have more 120 ac. that is surrounded by national forest (can not access the forest for 10 square miles around the land). Feel free to email me. Its near Fairbanks - Bassett Township.

[slick814]

I sometimes wonder if some of the wolves that folks hear howling, or some of the packs that they're seeing are Coyotes or T-wolves.

I only raise this question, because I know of a roving pack of Coyotes where we hunt in Northern MN, and a lot of folks call them "Brush Wolves".

It's creepy to hear them howling when you're walking in the woods alone, or in the pre-dawn darkness,whatever time, but for the most part, I don't believe that there's been a lot of coyote attacks. Or wolf attacks for that matter.

I don know that a couple followed my brother out to his stand on opener, and he was pretty shaken up by it. They showed no real show of aggression towards him, just followed him as he was walking to his stand, and then circled around for a little while before leaving. He said he could sense them in the dark walking almost beside him, but not quite, and just far enough away that he couldn't see them either. Can't blame him for being a bit shaken, but he also said that he was glad it was the smaller ones, and not the big Timberwolves.

Even with the coyotes running around out there, we still had the best hunting season that my family has had in a long time. 4 hunters, 4 shots, 4 deer. 2 big does, 1 medium doe, and 1 big 10 pointer. So we can't complain too much, and it also proves to me that the coyotes being in the area doesn't necessarily mean that the deer are going to clear out of the area, either.

I still don't like to hear that howl at night, though, especially when they're close enough to hear them yipping while they hunt or play, however. But I'd be more fearful if they were timberwolves and not coyotes. If for no other reason than that's one animal that has always sent a shiver up my spine in the wild. I love to go to the wolf center in Ely and watch them. I miss favorite wolf, Kiana, from the original pack. It was a shame she died the way she did (rare brain disease). They are a beautiful creature to look at, but on the other hand... they are also just about the most perfect predator in North AMerica... as long as I'm not on the menu, I'm cool...

[Steve Foss]

fisherman222, thanks for the link. I printed the report and read it through last night. Excellent insight into wolf behavior, and very definitely worth reading for anyone with an interest in wolves. It's a compilation of 80 case histories of encounters between people and wolves in Canada, Alaska and northern Minnesota. Everything from a simple non-threatening encounter to full-out attacks. Revealing reading indeed!

tealitup, I can't see your e-mail address anywhere. You can shoot me an e-mail anytime and we sure can talk about it. My e-mail is always listed below in my sig. I'm always looking for new places to shoot. I've never yet seen a mountain lion in the wild, so that's one to work for.

[chris63]

Great post,I'm still waiting to see one close up.The only Timber I've ever seen was on the tail of a nice Buck.It was about 100 yards away.As soon as the Wolf noticed me it was gone that fast.They are part of the outdoors more and more it seems like it or not.c63Oh,I have to add my older brothers son had a wolf(Large black)come right under one of the permanent stands I had built a couple of years earier.There is plenty of sign and tracks around (Contact Us Please).c63

[analyzer]

I thought I read something a few years ago, that stated no one had every been killed by wolves in Minnesota. Is that right? I know people have gone missing and never found in the woods, including Noel Daluge (sp?) from my high school, so it seems to me that it is possible it was wolves. If someone was killed by a wolf, isn't it possible, that if you didn't get to them right away, the remains would disappear entirely?

[Steve Foss]

People who love wolves blindy have constantly paraded the claim that there's no written record of a healthy adult wild wolf killing a human being in North America.

That's misleading.

Oral accounts from Eskimo and Native American peoples indicate wolves have killed people here. Those cultures did not have written language, so while the above claim may in fact have been accurate, it doesn't tell the truth, which is that wolves have killed native people in North America.

And a couple years back, a small pack of wolves attacked and killed a man in Saskatchewan. Investigation indicated the wolves probably were habituated to being fed by people, which can lead to agression when they encounter people who don't feed them. The report fisherman222 linked to delivers a lot of information about habituated wolves.

If a pack of wolves killed someone, it would only take a day or so to clean up the area so there's nothing left but some hair and bone and blood on the snow/leaves. That's how long it takes them to take care of a deer, and most people weigh about the same as most deer.

[Muthagoose]

Humans like to feel close, forgetting things are "wild" usually creates a false confidence and thats when "we" drop our guard.

I respect the public education of the wolf center..You dont see them claiming to be "able to" rather they institute a respect...

Unlike both the bear centers which give's a false sense of confidence by hand feeding,humanizing ect...

A wild animal is just that wild. It has no menu,no considerations other than instinct/opportunity..

My first year trapping up here opened my eyes. Seeing wolves flank and consider oh boy.Better yet after extending my foot line I decided to spend a night in the bush seeing just how close they will get to a possible food source consideration can be awakening. Just like any predator/guard dog they sense pheromones ect knowing the second you allow fear to enter, they know.

As for clean up on a kill ask any of the search and rescue "if" misfortune happens usually yotes,crows and fox accelerate this and leave the most sign. You will never hear either of the areas"commercialized" animal attractions being connected to any human remains when found.When actually the top predators are usually the first to dominate any "free meal"...

There's good and bad even in the animal kingdom.

A dominate pack is just that dominate..

I actually like wolves very cool to hear them sounding off.. It reminds me that we are part of a delicate chain that only humans control the destiny of..

Thanks to the boy scout motto "Be Prepared" my 44 is always near...

As for mixing up yotes for wolves not a chance for anyone who has spent time in the timber.Altho considering the multitude of uneducated roaming the wilds its probably right on..

Speaking of yote attacks Ca and Wi have more documented reports of than most care to admit. Along with cougar wolves can and has happened.

Its the damage control of the Orgs/local commerce that buffer what we see and hear.

How many people would think of taking their family into the BWCA "IF" there was ever a confirmed case????

[fishermann222]

ok I have tried to type this post a few times and it just never sounds right, but here we go again.

I think wolves are incredible animals. I have seen them in the wild up here and they are amazing. If close enough and the season was open i would have harvested one. THis year I will be trapping them. They are the ultimate predator.

Minnesota does need a season on wolves, not to help the deer population (the deer population is PLENTY high in my opinion) but to instill the fear of humans into the wolf packs. They need to know humans are a threat. In AK wolves try to avoid people at all costs, because they fear us.

Two GREAT books to read about wolves are WOLVES OF ALSKA and ALASKA'S WOLF MAN Both written by Jim Rearden. If you have not read these books they are AWESOME.

[BobT]

Do you think a wild born wolf is instinctively less fearfull of humans because some of his cousins might be? I don't necessarily agree with that. I believe the wolves that may have learned not to fear us are the ones that don't. Wild born are still born with the instinct to avoid other predators. Hunting them would certainly teach those that encounter us (and survive) to fear us but I doubt they have the intelligence to send out a newletter to the rest of the pack.

Bob

[Big-Al]

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Do you think a wild born wolf is instinctively less fearfull of humans because some of his cousins might be?

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No, but his mother and the rest of the pack soon teach him/her that their is no need to be fearful.

I could only stay out of this one so long.

[fishermann222]

BobT you underestimate the abilities of the wolf. Purchase those books I mentioned. Rearden is a VERY VERY well respected author, and presents factual based info based on biologists and trappers from Alaska.