My first opener ever!!! & Do you think I got a bad CO?

[Sandmannd]

Kingfisher and I got up early this morning and headed to Carlos Avery. We hit the dove section and were out about 5 or so in the morning waiting for the deer. KF saw one doe, but the only shot he would have had, had another hunter standing behind it. We moved to another spot and walked in about a mile or so around 10 AM. We were about 20 yards apart. I heard something move and turned and saw a doe jumping behind me. It never stopped running and I couldn't get a clear shot through the trees. We left around noon or so and got some lunch. Hit my brother-in-law's propert (which touches the south end of Carlos. You can't hunt his land because he only has a couple of acres, so we used it more as another access to Carlos). Didn't see anything there either. By now it was about 3 and we heading back to our second spot of the morning since we had seen a doe and saw a couple of people get deer. We sat out for a couple of more hours (till 5ish) and headed back to my truck. No deer on my first trip out, but it was a good time. It was a good time up until the time we were leaving.

I was driving my Durango and pulling a small utility trailer to put the deer in if we got any. I got a quarter mile or so down the road and an SUV gets up behind me with lights flashing, it was a CO. He came up to the car and asked to see my hunting license. I told him it was pinned to my back so he had me get out and he took it off. He then asked me where the doe I shot was. I told him I had no shots today and the two deer we did see we couldn't get a good shot at. He then said he knew I shot a doe and left it lay where we just came out of before noon today. I asked what he was talking about because I hadn't even fired my gun today. He said a group of hunters took down my license plate and turned me in for shooting and leaving a deer. He said that when he met with them they ID'd my using my DL picture he pulled up on his computer. This was a little funny to me because since I had that picture taken I have lost about 100 lbs and went from wearing long hair half down my back to short hair. He again asked me what I did with the doe. I again told him I hadn't shot anything that day. He asked who was with me and I gave him kingfisher's name. He asked how I knew him and I said he was a friend of mine. He then said by the way you don't have enough orange on for hunging. I was wearing orange gloves, orange hat and an orange vest. I just took hunters safety this year and read the handbook, it says all you need is a vest. I told him this and he said the only part of your upper body that doesn't need orange are your arms. I didn't say it, but isn't that what a friggin' vest is???? He then had me go to his car and stand in front while he questioned KF.

He told KF not to talk him and to tell him who shot it. KF looked at him and asked, shot what? He said you know what I'm talking about and KF said, no, sorry, I have no clue. He said the fawn one of you shot and left laying. (After talking to KF later I found it odd that the CO told me it was a doe and him that it was a fawn). He continued to grill him about where we were hunting and intimidating him about shooting a fawn. He told him the dog was on the other side of the county and he was going to call for him so it would be better if he just told him where the fawn was. He also told him that he was going to confiscate the guns and we wouldn't get them back for 6 to 8 weeks. Again, KF told the CO we didn't shoot a thing that day.

He came back to me and asked me where we hunted that day. I told him once again all the places we hunted. He asked me if we talked to any hunters. I said we talked to one up in the dove land and one where we hunted after that. He asked what we talked about and why we talked to him. I said one was walking by and we just talked about the morning and if each of us had seen anything. Then the second guy we heard a shot and saw him so we went over to check out his deer. The CO asked why we talked to the other hunters and I said we just enjoy talking to other outdoorsman (by the way, didn't know this was a legal issue). He asked if I heard any shots. I said sure, I've been hearing them all day. He said he meant close. I said I heard a few close shots, saw the one hunter with a deer and didn't see anyone else, just heard some shots. He continued telling me that he knew I shot a deer and left it because that's what he was told and I was identified. I told him this was my first time deer hunting and would be extatic to get a deer. We each had two tags with and the trailer so why on earth would I leave the deer laying. He just kept badgering me about shooting the deer. I stood fast on the fact that I shot nothing since I hadn't. He then went to his car and left us alone for about twenty or so minutes. KF and I just chatted to see what he was asking each of us.

It was getting dark now and he came up and asked to see my gun. I pulled it out and handed it to him. He smelled the inside and asked the last time I shot it. I told him it was two weeks ago at KF's cabin. He asked if I had cleaned it since and I said I cleaned it when I got home from the cabin. He handed me back the gun and told me he was giving me a warning for the lack of orange. I said I was sorry for not having more on but the regs book said a ves was OK (and by the way covered more space than his did) and told him I asked the guy at Fleet Farm if this was a legal vest and he said it was. He asked me again about the deer and I said I had no idea who shot it and why anyone called us in. He went to KF and asked to see his gun (he is shooting mussle loader this year). He pulled it out and handed it to him. The CO said it was illegal to carry a firearm that is loaded. KF said that he understands there was powerder and load in the gun but that the firing cap was out of the gun. If you look in the regs, it says a mussle loader is concered unloaded once the firing cap is removed. KF brought this up to the CO and he said he was correct on that (so why the frick did he give us static about it?). There was some other dump that went on and I can't remember all the details, but I'm sure Kingfisher will chime in on it.

Anyway, the CO made me feel like scum of the earth for doing nothing but trying to enjoy a day of hunting with a buddy. Am I wrong in getting [PoorWordUsage]y about this. I have a huge respect for law enforcement & CO's and what they do but I think this guy crossed the line. What is going to happend to the A-holes that turned us in and filed a false report? We were going out on Tuesday morning as well, but after this experiance I don't know that I want to go back on public land in MN. Kingfisher has a cabin in WI but is going to have a baby the week of opener so he can't head up there. I will say that after this dump going on I am concidering saying screw MN, I'll give my money to WI and go over there from now on. Might cost more, but to hunt private land, not deal with all the people blowing rounds all over you, falsly turning you in and a CO making you feel like you are a criminal I have no reason to look forward to another hunt here.

Sorry it was a long rant, but what would you all do in this situation?

[Shack]

Sandmannd,

Sorry to hear of this. Unfortunately it sounds like the guy that called you in is more to blame than the CO. Who knows, this could of been the CO's first year on the force or he might of had a fight last night with his wife. Either or, you got stuck in a situation that is rare.

I was looking forward to yours and kingfishers report. I wish it had gone better for you.

I think the blaze issue is in your favor!

[DeanoB]

seriously that sucks man,just another incidence of the man trying to keep us down! No really hope you got his badge number and name. I would write a letter to the DNR, just informing them of this officers antics. I know they can be real meaners, I had a trespass ticket and a uncased bow ticket once too, both times was like the being indicted for murder. But some day when you find a dead deer left by somone, or unretrieved you will realize that he had to know if it was you that shot and abandoned that doe/fawn and that is why he was such a meaner.

[Grant Pearson]

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seriously that sucks man,just another incidence of the man trying to keep us down! No really hope you got his badge number and name. I would write a letter to the DNR, just informing them of this officers antics. I know they can be real meaners, I had a trespass ticket and a uncased bow ticket once too, both times was like the being indicted for murder. But some day when you find a dead deer left by somone, or unretrieved you will realize that he had to know if it was you that shot and abandoned that doe/fawn and that is why he was such a meaner.

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It was completely b.s. what the CO was doing to us. I can understand him coming up to us and asking those questions, but upon finding that our guns were still clean and we didn't have any deer and him still questioning us is completely bull****. When he talked to me, he asked me who shot the doe and where it was and to make sure not to lie. I told him that I have no reason not to lie as I'm a Firearms safety instructor and volunteer with the DNR a lot. I said that this was Sandmannds' first year hunting and first deer hunt and if either of us would of shot anything, being doe, buck fawn, whatever, it would've been a great time. I let the CO know that Sandmannd would've been ecstatic to shoot a deer. He then asked me why I let him into the woods with that little orange on. I told him that from the regs that he was legal. The vest he had on covered his whole upper body minus his arms, plus he had an orange cap and gloves on. When he asked to see my gun, I showed him, and he asked why I had a round in the gun. I told him that, according to the law, I can have a round in the muzzleloader as long as a percussion cap isn't on the gun, which it wasn't. He agreed with that, but was relentless with trying to figure out who supposedly shot this deer. Like I said earlier, I can understand the CO coming up and asking us questions, but he definitely stepped over the line and went too far. I looked at the warning given and got the Co's badge number, station number, and citation number and will be talking to a friend of mine and making a formal complaint with him. My friend is a 2nd LT with the DNR. I know that the CO was following up on a lead and doing his job, but there was no need to lie to us, telling Sandarnnd that a doe was shot, and telling me a fawn was shot, saying that he'd take our guns, and all this other talk and then sitting in the truck fro 20 plus minutes before giving our licenses back to us. He was all around a mule.

[harvey lee]

This is a rough deal. One has to remember that someone reported that you left a deer and didnt retrieve it. I dont know what happened but the CO was going through normal questioning when he talked to both you and KF.

Not to defend the CO but if he has a report of a hunter leaving a dead deer, the is considered wanton waste and he has to check it out. It is very normal to split the hunters up and get each ones story. As far as checking the guns, he can tell somewhat when it was last fired and see if one is telling a story or not. I do believe that you had the correct amount of orange clothing on to meet the required law currently.

If you really feel the CO was out of line, take his badge number, the time and location and contact ST Paul.

Part of this whole ordeal I would blame on the people that reported that you shot this deer, as the CO is only going by the information recieved.

I'm not siding with anyone here as I was not there, but the CO's have a tough job to figure out who is telling them a story and who is being honest. With that said, no, the should not harrass you in any way.

[Steve Foss]

It sucks that you had to have your first deer hunting experience sullied this way.

If you've seen the good-cop, bad-cop routine on TV detective shows, then you've seen this guy's role. The TV stuff is exaggerated sometimes, but that tactic is pretty common. On guy tries to bully a suspect into confessing or trick him into give details he wouldn't know if he was innocent, and the other guy cosies up to the suspect.

Since a report had been given and a positive ID supposedly supported that report naming Sand, he figured he had you cold. Only difference here is, there was no good cop along to soften you guys up.

I'm not saying it's right, only explaining how those things sometimes go when the cops have got someone they believe is guilty.

It's a nasty situation to be in, and I'd definitely follow up with your DNR Lt and file the complaint. In my experience, the good investigators don't bully or throw their weight around. They're smart and persistent enough so they don't have to.

Maybe, as stated, this guy was new or had a bad day. It happens. There are jerks in every state DNR out there, as well as lots of fine people, so I hope you won't abandon Minnesota deer hunting, Sand, because of one bad apple.

[Sandmannd]

Don't get me wrong, pulling us over after someone made that claim was the correct thing to do. I understand the splitting us up, put the way he went about a lot of the things he said were out of line. I always thought you were inocent until proven guilty. I know I didn't shoot my gun yesterday, but he almost had me going "Did I shoot that deer?" (Only kidding). He was so convinced I had shot the deer he didn't want to hear anything but that. I have no problem with him asking us, but to keep pushing and accuse me of lying is out of hand. I think the guys that report us should get a citation for false reporting. Not to mention I'd love to have a few words with them.

[big drift]

Welcome to world of Law Enforcement, name, address, DOB, charge me or let me go. Period.

You do not have to do anymore then that. People that talk to LEO's thinking they can explain their way out of something or it will help them typically cause more harm then good.

I would document the situation with his superviser and if you do not receive any sort of feedback contact the POST board. If this is how things went he was out of line.

[LuciandTim]

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I would document the situation with his superviser and if you do not receive any sort of feedback contact the POST board. If this is how things went he was out of line.

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What is the POST board going to do And what will his supervisor do? Nothing.

The only problem this CO has is bad interpersonal communication skills and bad interviewing skills. He did his job. He got a complaint, what he thought was an eye witness, a vehicle description and match and he thought he had it wrapped up. He had his probable cause and now all he needed was a little more to finish the job.

The real complaint should be made against the people who made the allegations!!! What was their agenda?

[SledNeck]

Maybe hes trying to make his job easier by harrassing hunters into quitting the sport. Sounds like he needs to be fired.

[lunker651]

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Maybe hes trying to make his job easier by harrassing hunters into quitting the sport. Sounds like he needs to be fired.

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I couldn't agree more.

[harvey lee]

I dont know how one can even make a statement like that.

[Grant Pearson]

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Sounds like he needs to be fired.

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Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[harvey lee]

Maybe we could fire all the CO's and then see what type of game and fish would be left to hunt and fish.

I'm not saying that all CO's are great at talking with sportsmen but how many do you think have been lied to a million times? How many people do you think treat the CO's like cr ap? They are also human and can only take so much from the sportmen that are always lying and cheating and stealing our resourse.

They have a job to do and we want them to do it. Now, just maybe he was screemed at and treated very poorly by the person he dealt with right before he stopped you. he is suppose to just forget about all that has happened and come on over just a smillin.

I think before we judge him so harshly, we do need to know the whole story and I'm betting not one single person does.

[Grant Pearson]

I totally and 100% agree with you Harvey. I'm all about the need for more funding for the DNR so we can have more COs in the field making sure everyone is doing what they're supposed to. Where the problem in this situation lies is the Co we came in contact with jerked us around, wasted more time of everyone involved than needed, and was a complete a**. I can understand that he has a very tough job as I know a few other Cos and know them somewhat well. I volunteer with the DNR quite a bit. I know how tough their job is. The CO that stopped us was very rude, inconsiderate, and strung things out more than he should have. At the end, he didn't say sorry about the confusion, thanks for cooperating or anything like that. he just gave us our tags back, asked where we were going to hunt next and after we told him, he told us that we should "just give up and go home" as he walked back to his SUV. His attitude is what Sandmannd and I have a problem with and where he crossed the line. Yesterday was Sandmannd's first deer hunt. How would you feel if that was your first experience deer hunting and do you think Sandmannd feels right now? You think he's excited about going deer hunting anytime soon?

[DTro]

I support CO's in general 100%, but to be unaware of the orange law and also the muzzleloader law, in my opinion, is not good.

It is a bad spot, especially the "he said, she said" aspect.

One of the reasons I've gotten away from Deer hunting is the childish antics of some, especially on public land.

In your situation, had I been in it, knowing I was innocent, I simply would've said, "I am 100% innocent, here is my home address and phone number please stop by and ask all the questions you'd like, but I'm here to hunt, not to answer questions to false accusations all day"

[harvey lee]

I'm not saying in any way that I would be happy with what happened but, I have had a few CO's check us when we were in our trees hunting and didnt wait until we were done and I really didnt care for that either but I wouldnt ask for his job to be ended. Its to bad that this had to happen but one could say that the CO could be also upset as the group that turned you in to him also waisted his time also.

AS I stated above, he really didnt need to do what you state he did but I also do understand why at times they also can have a bad day due to the cr ap that others give him.

Seems to me that at times, this can be a two way street and sometimes one needs to understand why some are a little rough on the edges.

I have seen so many posts where its all the CO's fault and when they do something very good or helpful this hardly ever is mentioned. These guys are humans just like you and I.

Darren, I looked through the laws today and a CO can hold you to question you, check for licenses and so forth when he stops one. It doesnt state how long they can detain one but it does state he has the time to check it all out. I dont know if I would say that and walk away as this might really p-ss him off.

[Shack]

Both you guys had a very raw deal on the opener. If you guys want, file a report. I would probably not file one my self, because I would chalk it up as an “experience”, but I was not there and I did not hear what was said. Maybe some things where said out of line and you are not telling us everything what was said. That case I would follow up on this with his supervisor.

But in the end, when hunting or fishing, one runs into weird situations with fellow sportsman and authorities.

By the way your guy’s post reads, it sounds like CO was just doing his job and being a human (making mistakes in the line of duty). His adrenalin was pumping just as much as your was and his judgment could have been obscured by an eye witness account and both you guys totally denying it. Like stated before, he had you in the bag and you guys where not want he was shopping for.

Where was the deer? Was there even a deer? With no dead deer, what was he pushing in the first place.

As far as the T.I.P. line goes, one has to use judgment when reporting a game violation. I am sure the DNR had there hands full this weekend with calls from people, just like the fishing opener. Nothing can ruin a persons sporting outing , like a miss judged call to the tip line. Before I would ever call the T.I.P. line on an another sportsman, I would make darn sure what I saw was a grave violation of the regs or a law. If I have any doubt, I would hasten judgment before calling the T.I.P. I would hate to ruin a sportsman day because of my blunder.

[Grant Pearson]

The CO said the deer was in the last place we hunted and that he would "call for a dog" to help find the deer that he was talking about. By him saying that, he was going on a fishing expedition and didn't actually have the deer.

[barebackjack]

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By him saying that, he was going on a fishing expedition and didn't actually have the deer.

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That is exactly what it was and how unprofessional of him, that wouldnt be tolerated out of any one of us at our jobs so why should one feel that it is putting this CO out on a limb to file a report on him, I know had I ever acted like this at my JOB I would be talked to. I have seen plenty of posts on alll the different sports websited including this one praising the DNR in their efforts. If it was me, I would most definetely be filing a report with his superiors so hes not out there ruining some 12 year olds hunt next time around!!!

[lunker651]

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I dont know how one can even make a statement like that.

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Let's not go there..... I have met more CO jerks then good ones and just leave it at that.

[not_nuf_time]

Sorry to hear about the hunt being ruined. If I were to file a report I would do it for the reason, that it would maybe make the CO have to follow up on the people who filed the false report on Sands and Kingfisher. Maybe in turn they would be charged with some sort of hunter harrasment.

[soldoncass]

I have great respect for the jobs CO's do. Most of them do a remarkable job. However......there are some people who can't handle the "power jobs" such as a CO, or police, or anything similar. I do not know what happened to create this situation, but as you described it ,I would make a complaint in proper channels for sure. Then......DO NOT LET HIM WIN.....continue to hunt. I just wonder if your description was aided by your license on your vest? I wouldn't put mine there. Some states require it , but not Mn.

[Tippman]

So does this mean I would be ticketed from him for the vest I'm wearing in the 2007 deer pic photos i just posted?

I don't see anything wrong with that amount of orange.

[Grant Pearson]

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So does this mean I would be ticketed from him for the vest I'm wearing in the 2007 deer pic photos i just posted?

I don't see anything wrong with that amount of orange.

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according to the CO that stopped us, you would've been ticketed.