Entry level Muzzleloder???

[Bassboy1645]

Now that the season is opening and everyone is talkign about it i wanna go!! Next yr Id like to try but im a college kid on a tight budget. I was paging through cabelas today and saw some smokepokes for 150 bucks. Are these thigns any good?? Accurate?? reliable?? Are they worth a seriously look for some serious deer hunting or are they a pay for what u get thing?? I shoot alot of deer a yr and a smokepoke would be mainly another season to chase a buck. I already bowhunt too.thanks for the help!!!!

[mechanictim]

Most of the low priced muzzleloaders have a lot of plastic parts that are of questionable durability/quality. The ramrods are usually wood and the triggers usually feel gritty and heavy. The sights are usually plastic and hard to adjust without breaking. That being said some of these guns are quite accurate and will be just fine for deer hunting if you are hunting from a stand. If you are moving around while hunting or out in sub freezing the plastic tends to break particulary the front sight and ramrod. The low end guns usually take a little more time to take down for cleaning and require a steady hand to put back together without stripping screws or crushing plastic parts.

If I were in your shoes I would check the used racks at your local gun retailers for a MK 85 Knight or one of the Thompson Center guns from a few years ago. Buy the gun and get a generic or brand specific starter kit and go from there.

[Bobb-o]

I purchased a CVA Buckhorn this fall and havent had a problem with it. It shoots great groups and seems pretty durable. I got the gun for $99 and then bought all the accessories for a grand total of $158

[eyehead]

I would just go with an omego or similiar gun. Maybe more money but a lot better quality. It will save you alot of headaches.

[finspat]

Do not be afraid!

Of purchasing a muzzleloader, that is lower price!

I incourage you to buy a break action, I bought the CVA Wolf

I shot it last week at the range for the first time!

I shoot the powerbelt!

245 grain, with 100 grains of the triple seven pellets.

With open sights i can achieve a five shot group with all shots touching! At 50 yards!

About an 8 inch goup at 100 yards, mind you open sights!

i normally shoot scope!

This morning I shot a doe at about 120 yards,

She dropped dead like I never seen a deer drop!!!

I was stunned!!!

So cheap and so easy!!

CVA makes a great product!!

At the range I had a guy with a fancy smancy remington!

He ask me what was I shooting Told him a CVA

And it Cost me a 169 for the kit!

He could not believe it!!

I am going tomarrow

Drop another one!!!

thats my 2 cents!!!

Fins

[Rotwieler]

I was just thinking that I would like to get in on this muzzleloader season too next year. I need some one to tell me though

1. a gun that is like the 870 of muzzleloaders. Price, reliability, and accuracy combined.

2. Powder or powder pellet things

3.bullet, weight, type

4. Max range

5. What’s the accuracy of one of those things

i know that’s a lot of info to be asking but i don't know anyone who muzzle loader hunts and i am very curious.

a big thank you to anyone who can answer any of my many questions

thanks

[delmuts]

since you are buying for next season, do some looking around. i would take a serious look at used also!( with all the new models coming out, i would think there are some good deals out there) yes a cheaper gun will do the job, but there are differences in quality . a used knight disc. should be in your price range , as with a few others. also as i understand, you are limitted to open sights during black powder season there, so look closely at what kind/types of sights a gun has, accessories will include a good cleaning kit,patches,a bore lube, a lube for the breach plug,and a cleaner,( soap and water works, but i prefer a special cleaner)powder( go with pellets),bullets,( something around 250 gr.) and a some kind of hearing protection.plus your primers.

[Hines R]

I definitely love my TC Omega. With some of the new break opens now on the market like the TC Hunter I suspect that a lot of guys have upgraded. Knowing how things go though it wouldn't surprise me if they hung onto their old muzzleloader.

A lot of guys shoot Hogdon's Triple 777 in either the pellet or the loose. Easy to clean after using. I prefer loose powder. Keep in mind if you go with loose triple 777 powder that it is 15% stronger than the 777 pellets or any other powder. From a safety factor if you shot a 150 grains of loose Triple 777 it would be actually equivalent to 172.5 grains of power. This would take you over the max recommended load.

Most guys don't shoot the load that the gun is rated for anyways though. With Muzzleloader's you have to find the sweet load for your gun, and the bullets that you are shooting.

I think the powerbelt bullets are great. Easier to load than a sabot, and just about as accurate. I think a sabot would be worth shooting if the state you hunt in allows scopes during muzzleloader season. Otherwise a powerbelt will be just great.

Muzzleloader's are definitely a lot of fun. I'm hoping to get out, but I'm probably stuck in remodeling h-ll.

It helps if you check around on pricing, and then make sure you get a guy that knows muzzleloaders. Your going to need a gear box to hold your stuff. Patches, bore cleaning patches or solvent/soap, some oil, primers, loaders for follow up shots, maybe a small bag to hold stuff. I would recommend just getting the basic stuff that you really can't live without, and then once you shoot a little you'll figure out the little other things you need.

Ryan

[lawdog]

R. Hines, that's good info. Do you know in your 777 comparison to Pyordex how pelleted 777 and pelleted Pyrodex compare power wise? I'm shooting 130 grains of 777 pellets and didn't want to shoot anymore (I don't need more power anyway, but was thinking if 777 is generally stronger I'd be at the max...).

[Code-Man]

You get what you pay for. A buddy got a Traditions cheapo around 100 bucks area. He already had something break on it. I have the pro hunter. not recomending it for entry level but CVA Kodiak TC Omega both GREAT GUNS. Make sure though you fell comfortable with the gun. There are all differnt styles of actions and make sure it's enclosed. Don't want snow to get in there and wreak your lifetime shot. I like the break action and it's nice my old man has a bolt style CVA. Breaks are easier to prime/unprime but it does cost more in most situations. Get a stainless barrel though. Easier to clean and take care of. Dad's is blued mine is stainless mine is half the time to clean then his.

[KOTTKE]

I would recommend looking for a used knight. I bought one about 12 yrs ago and its been a great gun, you can find these in every gun shop. Alot of people get into this and it last only a coulpe years. Make sure it has been converted to shoot a 209 primer system, about a $40 kit. Also try to locate a stainless barrel, these are easier to keep clean, and make sure its a 50 cal. There are a lot of 54 cal. out there but its hard to find rounds for it. You should be able to get into this for around $250 investment, the resale on these older guns are not much. And you don't need to spend $500-650 on a gun. I shot a 140lbs doe sat nite. This was deer 14 with the same gun in 12 years.

[Hines R]

The triple 777 pellets are designed to be exactly the same load as it states. It's only the loose that is 15% stronger. I think they did this so that people could easily switch over from the straight pyrodex pellets to the triple 7 pellets without it being a big deal. It might also have created confusion with people loading in three 50 grains and then being over the power rating for any muzzleloader out their.

My take has always been to buy what you won't want to replace in a year. You know if you buy a muzzleloader now you'll probably use it for years. If you buy a super cheap one you'll lose money in a couple of years when you decide to replace it.

Ryan

[midwesthunter]

I went with the NEF Sidekick. Its my first muzzleloader and have liked it so far. Cabelas has it for about $160. Here is a link you should check out about the gun.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/nef_sidekick.htm

The ramrod does take a little getting used to but I dont see a need to buy an aftermarket one, it gets the job done just fine.

[Howieroch]

Good choice on the NEF. I have one that I love. Of course I am biased, I collect the NEF rifles and have them in a lot of different calibers. All of NEF's guns are rock solid and in my opinion their accuracy can't be beat - I've used my NEF .223 and .243 to take prairie dogs at over 500 yards.

The ram rod on the gun is a little different, but I got used to it. My only complaint is that my rod attachments that fit my other gun and my aftermarket rod don't fit the NEF rod.

[alaskadreamin]

I will start by saying I shoot a Thompson Omega, I went with the thumbhole stock in the grey and stainless barrel about $600, but models in the 250-700.

Have several buddies who shoot CVA's and love them, actually both bought a second (Fleet Farm like 159 this fall with startup kit) to put a scope on permanent so they don't have to switch off for extended season. Here are my thoughts:

Buy one with a stainless barrel, helps on exteneding cleaning time, worth the money.

Thompson a little harder to clean than the CVA, the break action seems a little better. (looks like they went to it with the Pro hunter)

I shoot Pellets, easier less mess.......

Find a pellet/bullet combo you like and stick with it, had a buddy switch this year and messed up....

I use Powerbelts (245) 100g of Pyrodex.

They have come so far and lots of good choices....enjoy more days in the field!!!!

[love to hunt]

Bassboy,

You may want to look closely at a winchester Apex. I just picked one up in .50 cal and I must say I am very impresses.

The gun is well balanced, accurate, 150 grain pellet capible, 209 primed and price very resonable at $199.99. Mine likes 295gr Power Belts with 100gr of Hodgdon Select Powder.

I think you will enjoy it.

[wplatehunter]

I have had a CVA optima for 2 years now and killed 5 deer with it. I love the gun and never have had a problem with it. It is a very good gun for the money.

[chucker34]

Wow. Lots of great advice. I'm seriously considering the NEF sidekick in stainless steel. The only question I had for you guys with one, can you just buy an after market ramrod that will fit the sidekick, or rather, attach to it in the spot the ramrod that came with it would?

Being completely new to ML hunting, I was thinking about getting the scope that comes with it too - for regular season - but not sure I'd need it. Most of my shots would be well under 100 yards in the woods. Hopefully most of them would be under 50. Thoughts?

[Pooh]

CVA wolf cheaper than a optima shot 2 deer this year alone with it seems to shoot good to a 125 shorter barrell thats all i can see different between that and the optima. i paid 170 for the gun and starter kit