What size buck do you shoot???

[eyepatrol]

This has become an interesting topic. And maybe it boils down to the point where it is: "to each their own".

Certainly there would be more and bigger bucks if the whole state became one large "big buck management" ranch or something to that affect. But it will likely never come to that. Some people may take whatever opportunity arises while others are willing to wait it out.

Shooting a big buck anywhere in MN is probably not an easy task. It takes time, planning, scouting and maybe a whole lot more than that even. Many people don't have the time to do what it takes to get a big buck. And others just might not be in an area where big bucks are available.

It can be difficult to wait for the opportunity to shoot a big buck. If I were to only hunt for big bucks, I would have gone 22 years without shooting a single deer. To me, that's a waste of time and money. In fact, I would have quit deer hunting if that was the case. So, for me, I hunt as an opportunist. If the opportunity to shoot a deer arises, I'll take it unless it's a fawn. Personally speaking, I've had 5 opportunities in 22 years to shoot a buck, no matter what the size. I consider myself fortunate to have gotten 3 of them, none of which were bigger than a 3rd year 9 pointer. So the opportunity to even just shoot a buck isn't really there, but when it does come along, to me, it's a "trophy" opportunity (even though it isn't a trophy deer).

Now, some people may want to hang me by a yardarm for shooting small bucks or for shooting does. But we all must realize that not everyone has what it takes to get the big one. So, to each their own I say. No matter what the deer, we should all enjoy the hunt, savor the experience, and be happy for anyone who has taken a deer legally and ethically....it's not always a simple task to shoot a deer! First you gotta aim straight!

Just my $.02.

[bigbucks]

Excellent post basscatcher.

[chucker34]

Yes. Excellent post basscatcher. I agree wholeheartedly. To each their own. I admire the guys that have the time and resources to take a big buck through scouting and preparation. I personally don't at this point between work and family life. I try my hardest to scout, pattern the deer, etc., in my area and am always on the lookout for a big boy. But it appears that he will have to come to me or rather, I will have to have a year where one gets big enough and sticks around my area.

At this point in my life, I realize that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush to me. So if I have the opportunity at a smaller buck (I have not gotten one yet BTW), I will take it. Perhaps my attitude will change as I grow older, my kids grow up and leave, and I have more time to devote to it. But for now, I am in the stand about twice a week during the season and waiting to shoot what to me will be at trophy whether its a yearling doe, a young buck, or a monster.

BTW, I would consider the season a success if I could be withing bow distance of big mama, a nice big mature doe (probably 3-4 years) that I have watched give me the slip the past few years. I might even have to get a doe like that mounted as she's been a big part of my first several very happy years of bow hunting.

Again, I agree with the to each their own. If you're a trophy hunter, good for you. If it's brown its down, that's cool too, especially with a bow as it is quite an accomplishment to not only get within bow distance but to then make the shot.

[Sutty]

A bow hunter has the length of season and much less compitition as advantages for hunting trophies. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't there approx 500,000 firearm hunters and 40,000 bow hunters on average? I have not hunted deer up north so I can't speak to what kind of issues people have with the deer season. If you are a bow hunter you can pass on deer all year till the right one walks by. As a firearm hunter in crop county you get a couple days and you either shoot what walks by or wait till next year. Most people just want to have some venison to eat and enjoy the hunt with their friends and family. Personally I wan't both, I want the opportunity to shoot a nice buck and would like some venison to eat each year. So I need to make that happen not worry about how someone else is going to fix that for me.

It is a tall order to manage the state deer population. I hunt in 431 out west. Before the all season license came into existance you had two choices. A two day hunt or a four day hunt later in the month. There are 50 doe tags by lottery in my zone and I have yet to draw one. I hunt the first season with my party and there is only so much management you can do in a zone where most people do not have the option of taking a doe. I am not saying that my zone needs more doe tags. There are not a lot of good hiding places for deer in my area so they get a lot of pressure from hunting. It can be frustrating when the weather is lousy or the crops are still in and your two day hunt is less than ideal. But when everything works out ok the deer get thinned pretty well.

If you have the time and the money to spend on all the seasons availible now you can have more hunting opportunities and as such could manage it more. Most people though pile into the woods on opening weekend and if a deer walks by you shoot it of not you try again next year.

I have yet to shoot a dandy buck but I think the opportunity is there if I put the time in. I don't think it is realistic to have statewide management rules. The DNR has been pushing the past few years for people to shoot more does in heavily populated areas though. And if you get a few neighboring landowners together and agree to do some buck management you can grow some big deer.

[eyepatrol]

We hunt in Section 452. It is the southwest corner of the state, almost exactly 1/2 way between Pipestone and Luverne (Jasper/Hardwick/Edgerton area). The one thing I can't figure is this: each year it seems as though there is A LOT of corn standing for the first season hunt (the 2-day shotgun season). Enormous corn fields....we're talking 1/2mi x 1/2mi or sometimes larger. Lots of area for deer to hide and you'll never get them out of there with the biggest of groups. But, when we get to the season we hunt (the 4-day season), there are plenty of does around, however the bucks we see are still your typical basket racks. It's been like this for a few years now where there's lots of corn around the first season, then much less the second season, yet the bucks don't seem to get any older or bigger. Not sure what's going on there. Maybe they all "migrate" (for lack of a better term) to the state park which is about 8 miles away.

Interestingly, the best season we had was about 10 years ago. The lows were around 10 degrees and the highs were in the low 20's. Bucks EVERYWHERE! And that year we were able to take a couple nice 8 and 10 pointers with 16" - 18" spreads.

[shae1986]

Man i love this topic becuase there are things that both sides can do to really fix the main objective, herd management.

With our deer numbers at such a high number, it is up to the hunters, or a winter of 96-97 to think down the herd. And i am telling everyone that we can do this our way or the state will tell us how to do it. I personally dont care becuase its not going to stop me from hunting, but i do believe that Earn-a-Buck is not too many years off.

I consider myself a trophy hunter, ive been bow hunting 7 years now and i took my first deer with my bow last year. It was a doe and I passed on around seven small bucks last year with my bow.

I use to care that everyone should not shoot small bucks, now, really i could care less. I just know that the land that i hunt i can do what i want and i am confident i will see a positive growth on some of the bucks i let go. And the land i hunt isn't my land, in fact, there are 4 other bow hunters that have permission to hunt the land and i dont know if they are doing the same as me. So i dont want to hear "yeah but you have your own land to do that on" bc i dont.

I go to school at University of Minnesota in Crookston and the natural resourse department is working closly with the MN DNR to come up with solutions to the people who just want to shoot deer and the ones that want big bucks. The reason i bring that up is people that just take big bucks aren't helping the hurd at all by not shooting does and fawn. The harvest of the does and fawns takes competition out in the winter time and for a buck recovering from the rut, the less competition the better. Last year i took down 6 deer, so i tried to do my part and i will again this year.

I hope everyone has a safe hunting season.

A. Shae

[slimngrizzly]

The problem I have with all this is that people look at everyone else as the "lucky ones". If our deer were properly managed, be it by the state or the voluntary public, you wouldnt go years with out seeing a trophy. The problem is no one want to give up a few years or a few shots to get this. If you have killed a small buck in the past, then in my eyes, you have no right to wish for a larger one! You have taken that possibility away from yourself and I hope you are happy with the small one you shot, Because I might have passed him up and now that oppertunity has been taken from me as well. A trophy 4 1/2+ yr old buck does not have to be once in a lifetime. In some places these animals are common,and not because those people are lucky to have that land. Theyve made it that way, through strict management practices. Killing young bucks has NO positive impact on anything, other than maybe a smile on a young hunters face. Beyond that I cant think of a single reason. If im wrong, correct me.

Im sorry for having a strong opinion on this. I think in some situations it is ok for young bucks to be killed. But most of the time, if you pull the trigger on Jr., then you got exactly what you deserved. Shoot a doe- let Jr. Grow. Every deer deserves the right to live past a year and a half old!

[ortonville]

sutty,i live in ortonville and hunt near there my mom has a farm east of town and i own some lad up along the lake. and with the all season lis. the way it is this year i feel that the dnr is going to wipe out the deer herd. there is no way the pop. can handle that kind of pressure.the winter of"97" did the herd no good and it still has not recovered.with the all season lic. and beening able to shoot 3 does. it is just crazy.what this area needs is a point restriction.if we get a early winter and the deer herd up the muzzleloaders will have a hay day being able to shoot 2 does. aand then if we get a bad winter and lose some deer it wont be good. i will make a bet with anyone that next year there wont be any doe permits in 431.i shot a doe on sunday nite with my bow so now if i wanted to i could wait untill muzzleloader season and shoot 2 more that is just wrong.if the deer herd was managed right there would be a state record come from 431. and it would come from along the lake. deer can at least hide in the revines.and the dnr cutting all the trees in the refuge stupid

[rippinlips]

some just want venison and some want trophies. I will only shoot big bucks because we manage or own hunting land. Until the DNR change to earn a buck you can only hope that some people will take it upon themselves to do it. Like I said my preference is to shoot big bucks but if someone wants to shoot the first thing they see then go for it there all trophies. What about kids I think they should shoot the first thing they see it will only help them get more excited for the sport. there's my to cents.

[harvey lee]

I agree 100% that the kids should shoot whatever they choose.No sense of making them wait and lose interest.

I choose to shoot does to eat and only book bucks to shoot,but that is me.Our great deal is we manage the land we hunt on so we can do as we please.

[shae1986]

I agree Harvey that kids should shoot whatever they please. Get them to enjoy going out and spending time in the outdoors. my dad wanted me to shoot whatever came by and i did my first 4 years and one of them was a small 6 point buck. After that buck i decided to change and in the past 4 years i have shot 1 big buck that is on my wall.

A Shae

[Sutty]

I agree with ya. I don't know if I did a good job of it but I was trying to point out that not everywhere in the state has too many deer and earn a buck or those type of rules can't be state wide. The deer herd needs to managed regionally. I agree with you that the doe options on the all season or muzzleloader could be a problem. It depends on how many people buy those types of licenses.

I hunt on private land on the lake as well. I don't own it, I am hoping in the next few years to buy some land but its not in the cards yet.

[rippinlips]

We take about 6 to 7 does a year on our property by doing that the buck to doe ratio is for evened out thus is why we see more mature bucks during day light hours. What I'm getting at if you have a lot of does which the majority of the state does you will rarely see those mature bucks because they do not have to contend with other bucks for does. Which means just because you don't see the mature bucks does not mean there not there they are there and more then you think you just see the smaller ones more because they have to keep cruising to find does that are not with mature bucks. (It's a proven fact)There are alot more smaller bucks that live through the hunting season then get shot ever year meaning that they will be bigger and smarter next year you will just have to hunt harder for them next year.

[eyepatrol]

Even though we don't get many shooting opportunities at bucks from year to year, last year I know there were at least 8 - 2nd year to 3rd year bucks in the area we hunt that at least made it through the season. Whether or not they made it through winter would be another story I guess. Hopefully they will be around this year, but it does seem as though the bigger ones "disappear" each year. Last year we got 9 deer I believe. 7 does and 2 fawns. Lots and lots of does in the area we hunt.

[slimngrizzly]

Actually, in the farmland of MN, there was a study nearly 10 years ago. They found that nearly 90 percent of bucks harvested were 1 1/2 old or less. I would agree with this 100 percent. Its sad! Unfortunatly, I dont think nearly as many make it as some think? but theres always a few.

As far as what you say about closing the gap in the ratio, creating more daylight activity, very true. Its amazing, there is SO many pluses to a herd managed for quality rather than quantity, most people(including the DNR) have no idea.

[shae1986]

Dont be hard on the MN DNR they are working hard to fix this. Its just hard for them to do without a majority willing to do it. So dont rip the MN DNR. I am tired of people doing this, without them, we wouldn't have a deer herd. They are doing a great job and i hope they find another way to fix the current over population problem that we currently have.

A. Shae

[Mark Christianson]

This is my only post on this topic. Quite entertaining to say the least.

I concur with Shae.

I would much rather have our DNR doing their thing, than having a bunch of us know-it-alls trying to run the show...

They are doing a pretty dang good job. Look at the changes that have been made with zones, limits, licenses, etc.

They are making changes, and soliciting feedback from us know-it-alls.

Keep up the good work Lou and crew! (Lou being our Big Game leader in the DNR)

[DRH1175]

I will shoot just about any legal doe I can. With my bow or rifle. But when it comes to bucks I will shoot only 8 pts or better. I passed on a nice 6 pointer twice while bowhunting last year which I caught a lot of grief from my father in law for. But we still ended up with 3 does and seemed to be enough meat for the freezer. Looking back I am glad I did. We rarely see buck on our land. However I am starting to figure out why? There seems to be about atleast 5 -10 does for every buck I see. Hopefully in the next few years this gets better as we start thining out the herd a bit. We did manage a 12 pointer 3 years ago so I know they exist. There is lots of buck sign but few sightings.

[chucker34]

Ditto on giving the DNR a round of applause. Like any private, public, or government organization, they are not perfect, but they are doing a heck of a job surveying hunters on matters like antler point restrictions and using their own expertise and observations to define seasons and bag limits based on individual areas. As a result, most of the state has a healthy deer population that will ensure hunters with the opportunity to harvest A deer. Might not be a monster but even those states with a reputation for monster bucks are not full of them. Good luck finding a monster in the hotspot areas of those states without paying through the nose to use an outfitter. I wonder if the fact that the outfitters own and control the land and can set their own antler point restrictions has anything to do with. That said, Minnesota has some of the best public hunting land opportunities anywhere - acrosss the board, deer, pheasant, duck, etc. And a large part of why we have this is thanks to management efforts by our DNR.

[slimngrizzly]

I think the DNR at a local level are great. But guys like Lou, what do we pay them for? Hes a specialist, I would think he would make sure anything is done to have the most controlled and healthiest herd possiible. Instead we have the uneducated public making desicions on how to manage a deer herd, AKA "the majority". Our DNR is to gutless to do whats right for the animals because they think a few people might be unsupportive of it.

We have a season that allows a free-for-all on bucks when their most vulnerable. Our ratio is 1:10 in most areas at best after the season. And just when you wouldnt think things could get any worse... we come up with an overpriced All Season license that puts presure on these deer like never before. Then fine tune it and make it so we can PARTY HUNT with it.

Im sorry, but aside from offering the 500,000 of us some prettty public land to go on, what "steps" in the RIGHT direction are being made?

[shae1986]

Everything you hear about that teh DNR isn't doing anything, Especaily Lou, is way off the map. He has been working hard with many deer hunters on what they beleive should be done because its not Lou's Deer Herd, its the hunters. Lou knows for a fact that the hunters are what keeps and manages this deer level at a low enough population. Now he wants some rules changed but without hunters wanting these rules it is very hard since we are teh ones that have to harvest the does. He has talked to many people where he asked if you had to only shoot big bucks would you shoot a doe instead and a lot of people said no. Thats where the problem is.

Ripping on the DNR is not the problem, before you rip on them rip on the other hunters that trophy hunt, but dont harvest any does in the process, this is why MN is considering Earn-a-Buck. That will sure make some people take some does early in the season.

[doser]

Off subject, but Harvey that buck in your avatar? Is that the one you shot in Donny Z. woods when I was with you at the young age of 13 ? If I remeber right it was about 80 yrds. dead sprint on your last shot?

[Lunker]

I'll shoot a doe long before I shoot a little buck. 8 pts or over for me, unless of course it was some odd case with a huge 6 pointer or something.Actually, even since I was a younger I was one of the starters at camp of the "don't shoot small bucks". So I've shot deer pretty much every year, all does until my 9 pointer last season. He showed up about 20 minutes after I watched a 5 pointer stroll past.

[shae1986]

I want to say something about my post, i think went over the line, dont rip on other hunters because we need to stay together to keep hunting alive in these days and times, I wasn't thinking of that when i posted. I would ask that we dont rip our DNR though either, even if what we think they are doing is wrong, they are using their expert knowledge of the deer herd to come up with a solution.

A. Shae

[BLACKJACK]

Quote:

---

He has talked to many people where he asked if you had to only shoot big bucks would you shoot a doe instead and a lot of people said no. Thats where the problem is.

---

I don't quite understand that, are you sure you've got that right????

A lot depends on how you ask the question. If you take a survey and ask hunters "Would you like to shoot more big bucks", of course 99% would say yes!!! But the dirty little secret behind QDM is that they want you to shoot more does, lots and lots more does, to the point where the herd is in better balance AND to the point where you might not be able to shoot a deer every year. So lets make sure the right question is being asked, as in "Would you like to shoot bigger bucks even if it meant that you may not be able to shoot a deer every year because we've reduced the doe population and put on antler restricitions?" If you asked that question I would bet that less than 25% of the deer hunters would agree.

I have my doubts about antler point restrictions. A lot of states out West that have had them for years are ending them because they don't work. They've found that the buck herd gets 'cropped off'/shot above the point restriction, and that they had a high shoot, count, and leave to rot percentage. Yet you hear the opposite from Pennsylvania, people say antler point restrictions are creating bigger bucks. Hard to know who to believe.

All I know is that deer hunting right now is as good as I've ever seen it. You can shoot an early bonus doe for the freezer, shoot another deer during gun season, and shoot another deer later on by bow or muzzleloader. I grew up when doe permits were treasured and if you didn't get one and you were only buck hunting, it was a loooooong season. I hope to never go back to anything like that again. I hope the vocal minority of hunters that want the DNR to legislate big bucks for them doesn't get there way. The big bucks are out there, go out there and HUNT them!!!