Permanent Deer Stands on Public land

[tripper]

Here is what I think leads to a few of the problems in this type situation though. The guys who have always hunted there assume these guys are slobs and just moved into "their" spots. The reality is though, its not "their" spot and these guys might have scouted this public ground real hard and moved there because of what they learned while the guys hunting because its "their" spot may not even scout it and bother to pick the best spot within "their" area. They just assume they'll be there and that the new guys are just stealing "their" spot when they don't even know if these new guys knew they hunted there in the past or how/why the new guys are there.

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I just think that some times in the deer woods and particularly where "my" spot is involved, the line gets blurred by some of those who maybe got outworked or just happened to not get there in time sometimes...

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Or maybe they had been hunting there for years before you decided it was going to be "YOUR Spot" of unclaimed public property. If it is public how can there be any lines, blury or not?

Why does somebody coming in the woods after sunrise make him late? Maybe the guy works some place that puts him out there a little later then you, not everybody has jobs from 9:00 to 5:00. Maybe the guy has scouted the area good enough and hunted it long enough that he knows deer will not move throgh there until later. Maybe he figures he will let the early birds get cold and start moving around well he sets in his stand waiting for the deer they move. Maybe the guy that sneaks past your stand is a still hunter exersizing his right to hunt all public land.

All in all what disapoints me the most here is the lack of willingness on the part of what claim to be out door sports people to give a little for those that are more unfortunate health wise. Some of those unfortunate are (were) the very troops we so proudly claim to support.

[lawdog]

Tripper, with all due respect, I think you are really going to great lengths to divert the attention away from the real issue which is not about disabled hunters at all.

[half2fish]

I havent had the chance to read every post on this topic but i plan to. this is a very interesting topic and should be discussed by every hunter. but here is my .2 cents.

I hunt in Pine Island State Forest. It is south of baudette (spelling) about 20 miles. it is a totally public hunting place. me and my whole hunting group use permanent stand. all of the stands are about 4X4X6 foot stands. we keep the area clean and take care of all of everyone else's litter in the forest. even if it isnt around "our" stands. when i say our i mean us the ones that built them. we have notes in them with our name and address in them so if anyone has a problem they drop us a line. but what i am getting to is, if all of the permanent stands are taken care of and kept clean we should be able to use them on public lands. what is the difference between a ladder stand that someone leaves up for 3 weeks before season and takes it down the day after season. while they are up there the stands are still, as some of you have put it, marking a spot for yourself. but when i read some of these posts about how it is not fair that someone puts up a permanent stand he/she is "claiming" a spot for them it kind of torkes my wrench because again whats the difference from someone putting up a ladder stand every year in the same spot for long periods of time or for someone to put a permanent fish house out on the lake and "claim" a spot for the winter. when you say it is not fair that the permanent stands are there think about the permanent fish houses. if they take away our permanent stands on public land they should also take away permanent fish houses. this is my opinion on the subject. like i said, i havent totally read all of the posts, so if what i have just wrote has already been mentioned, i apoligize.

[jlm]

This is a good debate guys, I have stayed out so far because it can be difficult at times to moderate this forum and remain politically correct. The last poster made some good points, however, I think we should save the ice house debate for another thread because this will get too complicated. Public land in MN is a blessing for all of us. If we sit back and look at the opportunities we have, we are the luckiest bunch of hunters in the entire lower 48. Try find some public land in Texas...could you imagine the fights on that 2% of public land that they have? Public land is just that, its public. In my mind, I do not feel anyone has the right to leave a perm. structure on public land. They do not have a right to leave anything behind in the woods that does not belong there such as portable stands and GARBAGE (this includes cig butts guys). Now this get to be an issue when we are talking north and south. People in the north have not seen the problems to the same degree as those in the south. Lots of people use the public land in the south because of the higher population. Well, I hate to bring bad news but the north will be flooded as well within the next ten years. MN population is expected to explode and with that will come many new hunters. Could you imagine if even 10% of these guys build a perm. stand on public land? It will begin to look like a little city out there. Conflict will become greater and our CO's will be dealing with hunter conflict more so than they should. Someone also argued that is cuts of the disabled. I would have to question this. How would it cut off the disabled from hunting? More than likely someone helps them in and out of a perm. stand so why can't they help them in and out of a ladder stand that is light weight and easy to set up (as many of the ladder stands are today). What about ground blinds as someone pointed out? I would also have no problem in having areas specifically designated for the disabled where perm. stand COULD be built as long as they are controlled and monitored in some way. It is all of our land but it is not my land if that makes sense. Because of this I will respect others and obey the laws. I hope that others do the same. In public areas where perm. stands are still allowed, I would advocate for getting rid of them. Just my 2 cents! Good luck all!

[almostthere!]

In hunting public land, one must stick with the laws set forth by the DNR. It is perfectly ok to put up permanent stands as long as the builder follows the law: whoever gets there first has the right to use it.

The best thing for any hunter would be to scout more than one area. That way if someone is flashing their flashlight at you while you are enroute to your #1 spot, you would have the #2 spot to hunt from. This way your hunt and the other hunter's hunt will not be ruined.

There had been many a time when at the crack of dawn some idiotic and lazy hunter would walk noisily towards me and climb into their newly constructed permanent, 50 yards away, while ignoring my flashing light signal telling them that someone is here. What's more funny is when the lazy hunters headed out for lunch. They would always say something like, "I have a permanent stand overthere" or "Did you not see my permanent stand?". Some people are just funny.

Final thought: If a hunter only puts up one permanent and wants to hunt from it, please get up in the stand extra early otherwise back off when you see a light flashing.

[tripper]

lawdog, Why am I off subject? I am disscussing perm. stands and how it affects some sports people that love the sport so much that they are willing to fight through their pain and suffering to enjoy it as much as they can. With all do respect I think there is a big lack of understanding as to what a dissabled person goes through to get in the woods let alone stay there for the day.

[MNmikew]

I'm against banning perm. stands on pub. lands. We do however need size restrictions on them. No more fishhouses on stilts.

[Eric_Sieve]

First, Lawdog, tripper wasn't diverting attention from anything, I don't know what you are talkin' about. Secondly to everyone, I feel that stands not nailed into trees are perfectally ok, as long as you take them down after the season. I don't think that you should have to hang your stand everyday, that is obsurd as heck!! I don't believe anything should be left behind, but I also don't think that leaving a stilted stand up all season is such a huge deal!!

[Eric Wettschreck]

This debate is very similar to the duck blind on public land debate where I live. Unfortunately we don't have state forests here. Heck, I think we have like 7 trees in the whole county. However, we have a bunch of duck sloughs, many of them public.

Kind of the same debate. If you build a blind on public land and find someone else using it, it's tough nuts for you cuz it's on public hunting land. Agree or disagree, it's the law.

For the record, my opinion is if it's public land there shouldn't be anything permanent built there.

[Giant_Jackpot]

Why do people keep referring to fish houses as “permanent”? They get removed from the ice at the end of the season so they are far from permanent. Deer stands should be the same way. They should be licensed and removed at the end of the season. The removal part would help eliminate the “fish house on stilts”. If they don’t ban permanent deer stands then I think I am going to go build a shack on my favorite island on Lake Vermilion and call it home. What would you think of that? Pull up to a forest service camp site to find me chopping wood for the stove. And then later in the day I would be adjusting my satellite so I could catch the Twins game. Dang, I can’t wait to get going on the construction……………………..

[bigbucks]

You know if that's state land once you start chopping a tree down for firewood you'll be in trouble though. Then one of us can move in there...

[Mark Christianson]

Jackpot is right though.

Whats the difference if you make a "deer stand" on public land to stay in while up nort fishing?

I just don't buy any argument at all, in regards to keeping permanent stands legal on public land.

[Giant_Jackpot]

Quote:

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You know if that's state land once you start chopping a tree down for firewood you'll be in trouble though. Then one of us can move in there...

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Ha! I will limit my wood chopping to fallen trees. You can come visit any time you wish.

[tripper]

Guy's myself and the groupe I hunt with do not hunt state forests, although we live by some of the largest ones. I just feel that as sports people that out of thousands of acers of state forest we can afford to let certain hunters occupie the same 200 yards each year and have a stand that meets his needs. Such stands could be marked and anyone else caught in it could be ticketed. What upsets me so much is that I keep seeing new rules and regulations for outdoor activities being propposed or pasted and sponsoring groupes never seem to take the disabled into consideration. The growing attitude seems to be " well they can just make do with what evere we leave them" or let someone else worry about it. As Benny said were has sportsmenship gone?

[Mark Christianson]

So what sense does it make to put a disabled person up into a stand?

I am all for everyone having the opportunity to hunt, but I gotta believe for the vast majority of disabled hunters, that hunting on the ground is FAR safer any way.

[dkhntr]

I'd say knock them all down. Public land is for the public to use. Not to try to own with some ugly P.O.S. hanging out in it.

besides, if they dont come down you may find me in it come opener morning. All that hard work and sweat up put in it just for me. After all it is public. Nobody can claim it.

[GoodToGo]

Obviously, there is no easy answer to this. My family hunts up north on public land. We have a hunting shack on a county lease and have been hunting that area for about 30 years. We hunt out of permanent stands, including my wife. They are not fancy, and are not eyesores either (to us anyway). We rarely see other hunters in the area. We feel very safe when we're up in the trees. It doesn't bother the loggers, they just cut around the stands when it's time. The only trees with nails are those with stands. On the other hand, I have tried to hunt "new" areas as well, closer to bigger populations. It's hard to go to a new area, not knowing where other people hunt, not knowing if someone else is scouting the same area. I've never felt safe on public land (rifle season)when there are other people around, especially if I'm not up in a tree. I think it basically comes down to more and more people being forced into smaller and smaller areas. People with conflicting views are being forced to share space, and work out solutions. I think banning permanents will only anger those hunters, and not really solve the space conflict issue, but I can understand some of the reasoning of those asking for it. I don't have answers, but I think a more moderate approach could help find them.

[Benny]

Your right per the law, but it works for me as well.Your in my stand then I can climb right up there with you.

So long as I don't threaten you , you can't do a thing about it.

Or I can sit right below it,

(and maybe think I saw a deer and fire a few shots at the invisable deer I saw running through the woods.)

Note,after reading my words again I decided it was wrong to make the statement above.It would indeed be consedred Harassment if I was to shoot at the invisable deer being that I said I would be right below his tree.!!!

So long as I don't threaten you personaly there isn't any thing you can do.

Oh if you were to threaten me, my cell phone is always with me

(and so is my CCW piece.) This was also an irrational statement, and it is not called for!!!

So you see no one would win that battle.

You would be far better off just to say what the H and leave for another area maybe just a little futher down that deer trail .You might even be the lucky hunter to bag the big one and then you could really rub it into the person who built the stand.

I don't want you to think I am bashing you, just pointing out that a problem like just taking over a public stand can become a real headace for every one there.

Benny

[lawdog]

Not only would you be a first class A$$, but you would also be real close to the crime of hunter harassment for doing any of the things you think you are so cleverlishly describing Benny...

[Kidd]

HUNTER HARASSMENT PROHIBITED

A person may not prevent or disrupt another person from taking or preparing to take a wild animal. A person may not disturb or interfere with the person who is taking or Preparing to take wild animals, and may not disturb wild animals with the intent to prevent or disrupt another

person from hunting.

[dkhntr]

If i am in the blind, then no, you cannot just climb up there with me. Unless I offerd I had the space occupied before shooting time so it's mine.

And about the CCW, doesnt scare me. Because as soon as it is drawn most carriers know that they will be going to jail one way or another. Threatning/harrassing, plus it is an endanger of my llife.

But just for principle, I would not say what the H and leave. I would make sure I got there earlier the next day.

And no Benny, I am not bashing you either, This is how I feel about people assuming the right to the area that belongs to the public.

I may be an arse about it, but I have very strong feelings about peole "owning" public property.

[dkhntr]

GoodtoGo... I would respect that you lease that county land and I would have not problem leaving your land at least it's being paid for.

Just curious, do you need to post that rented land? I am assuming you do, but does that mean you need to post the stand too? (on the inside?)

[northman]

Just reading all these posts and I also read some on this same subject in other forums not too long ago. Although deer stands is a problem for many people and the dnr to. It is obvious that there are other problems to concerning rifle deer hunting.

For me, when I was hunting with my gradfathers party. Only 5 of us. We hunted county land and it seemed that very few other people were in our area and I felt safe and we had a good time. Later on 3 in the party had passed away and I went back to potlatch land where I grew up and hunted grouse on every year. At first I saw very few people. A few years later. It seemed like other partys moved in and I felt encroaced on. I knew it was legal for them to be here.

That was not the last straw for me. It was that a few of the people had very bad hunter ethics. I was shot at 3 times. One bullet landed in one of the 3 trees that was my deer stand. The bullet was about 2 feet or closer to my head. Hunters should never ever shoot at any deer that has another hunter in the line of site. Also, the line of site is allot bigger then some people understand. I have let deer go that had a hunter in the line of site. Including the time above I just mentioned. It does bother me to see deer stands that look like a tree house. I don't know why but I don't like to see them in the woods. If minnesota goes to portables only. How many (Contact US Regarding This Word) are going to start stealiing them because they are sitting on public land?

How many people build multiple deer stands in one area, which they use to hog a larger area then they can hunt at one time? How many people think that they own where they are hunting even though its on public land? I know they teach hunter ethics in gun safety classes but maybe they don't teach it enough? I quit rifle deer hunting and took up bow hunting. I have never ever had a problem with any other bow hunter including while grouse hunting when bow hunters are out hunting. One other thing that bothers me any time I am in the woods, is I have seen a few times where someone built a permenant stand and 2 of the trees were giant pines. I mean maybe 200 year old trees. They took there chain saw and cut the tree down half way up. Talk about ugly and destructive! I wish people would pick and choose with more common sense, where to build their stand. These are the kinds of things that make's the dnr get angry to. In my youth, I used to hunt everything. Now-a-days, I just hunt grouse and rabbits and or bow hunt for deer. I will contine to hunt this way as long as I feel safe in the woods and with out stupid conflicts with other hunters. I also own and use an atv and I am always reading about conflicts with atv's to, but I have no first hand conflicts about using mine yet. I try very hard to be responsible using my atv. The only thing I see about atv's and grouse hunting that bother me a little bit is that I see where some people are so lazy now that they hunt 100 percent of the time on the atv. They walk none. I at least ride my atv on travel trails and every single dead end hunting road I come to. I stop and walk hunt them all. yes, when I am riding the travel roads. I am hunting because you can find a grouse anywhere, but I am talking about all the side dead end roads/trails. As more and more atv hunters ride those nice walking roads they are getting damaged. that is making the dnr upset to. All I can do is my part to stay out of trouble and to attempt to preserve our land and respect other hunters while doing my hunt. Why is it that a few people think that they can do any darn thing when they are in the woods. Including putting people at risk from rikashays when shooting at deer with highpower rifles. I was lucky. I had a grandfather that taught me everything I know about the outdoors. Not just hunting either. There is ethics while camping and fishing. All of us are stewards of our land. If we screw up. More and more new laws will be created to make it harder for us to enjoy the great outdoors and we all know that minnesota is one of the very best places in america to enjoy the great outdoors, so far anyway!?! -northman

[dkhntr]

I totally agree Northman.

[Benny]

Let me appolagise(sp?) for insinuating I would draw my weapon for no reason.I didn't mean it to sound like that, I was assuming the person was threatning me with thier weapon as in shooting at me or pointing it directly at me.

I know all about the law as it pertains to a CCW.I took several classes on CC well before it was legal to get one.

I just think it is down right unethical for a person to climb up in a stand they did not build even if the law says they can do it.

I would not have a problem with a person who got to the spot before me and was already to hunt, in that case I would rather walk on down the trail further.So long as they respected my time to build the stand and was not in it.

And it is not ilegal for me to sit down on a stump right under the stand or even a few feet away.It may be to climb up there with you, but not to sit right next to you tree it is in.

I went to the CO this past season with this very question as some (Contact US Regarding This Word) set up on top of the mine dump right above me.Not even 50 yards away and he was facing right at me.

The CO said he couldn't do any thing at all about it as the person was not harassing me, nor was he in the same tree as me.

This guy was shooting at everything, and I know he shot in my direction more than one time.

But I was the one who shot a nice 6 pointer not more than 75 yards away from him.He couldn't see it, but I watched it travel along the ridge to where the guy was sitting then the buck stepped off into the thick stuff untill he came out on the ATV trail right next to me.

My point was to convey that it is better for all of us to work on the problem rather than just climb up in the stand and tell the person who took time to build it too take a flying leap.

I run into this situation all the time in the duck slews I hunt in western Minnesota and the Dakota's.

You simply have to travel further down the lake to the next point.

And yes I will be there earlier the next day and I will be the one shining the flash light like a mad man so the other guy has to travel further down the lake.

I have went as far as sleeping in my boat just to beat some clown who thought he was going to best me and get there early.

Benny