Attn: MN Gun Deer Hunters

[Wanderer]

I guess after 37 years of deer hunting all over this state and a few others I feel there are some improvements that could be made here at home and that’s about all I have left to say.

 

After my last two FA deer seasons in MN, I don’t know if I’ll buy another FA season tag for this state again.  And I’m not pouting about not seeing a big buck.  I’m just fed up with the public land circus, neighboring property owner disagreements and sub par results due to the chaos of that season.  It’s really starting to disgust me.  So, I’ll take your advice and leave the season up to the rest of you that are in bliss.  

 

For the record: I wish you guys would get over the trophy hunter name calling to degrade others’ opinions how deer hunting could improve.  You’re right in saying it’s not all about the antlers but you’re wrong in simplifying the opposing views as just that.

 

Oh, and if I leave your season and just wanna stay content with an archery season, can ya’ll leave that alone and not pile in with crossbows?  Please?

Edited March 24, 2018 by Wanderer
Spelling

[Big Dave2]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

Focus guys! Who here is advocating for APR or the end to party hunting? Answer..........Noone! 

 

Ummmmmm, I think you should read your posts and Wanderer's posts again.....

 

20 hours ago, Wanderer said:

Heres three: Stop party hunting bucks. 

 

19 hours ago, Satchmo said:

If "Party hunting" were stopped altogether (which I don't think will happen) the harvest would drop and the herd rebound would take care of itself in many areas IMHO, but it may be too bitter a pill to swallow for many groups. 

 

[Big Dave2]

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

I guess after 37 years of deer hunting all over this state and a few others I feel there are some improvements that could be made here at home and that’s about all I have left to say.

 

Improvements for you are not necessarily improvements for everyone.

 

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

 

After my last two FA deer seasons in MN, I don’t know if I’ll buy another FA season tag for this state again.  And I’m not pouting about not seeing a big buck.  I’m just fed up with the public land circus, neighboring property owner disagreements and sub par results due to the chaos of that season.  It’s really starting to disgust me.  So, I’ll take your advice and leave the season up to the rest of you that are in bliss.  

 

Who advised you to do that? I didn't hear anyone give out that advice.

 

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

 

For the record: I wish you guys would get over the trophy hunter name calling to degrade others’ opinions how deer hunting could improve.  You’re right in saying it’s not all about the antlers but you’re wrong in simplifying the opposing views as just that.

 

No one called you a name at all. Seems like you are being a little dramatic today especially since it is the "meat hunter" label that is really disparaging these days.

 

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

 

Oh, and if I leave your season and just wanna stay content with an archery season, can ya’ll leave that alone and not pile in with crossbows?  Please?

 

So you want changes only where it will benefit your way of hunting?

[leech~~]

5 hours ago, leech~~ said:

It’s interesting when people compare Wisconsin to Minnesota for Deer management and population.

Here’s a few things to think about that make them different and why Wisconsin has such a robust Deer population compared to Minnesota. 

1)      The whole state of Wisconsin is at a lower elevation then most of Minnesota meaning less sever winters for their northern Deer herd as compare to Minnesota.

2)      Land terrain. There are some large differences.

 

3)      Wolves, as the map shows Minnesota has way more fawn eaters then Wisconsin.

 

4)      Later season. Part 1 allows the rut to be almost completed before hunting starts meaning more Doe’s have been bread. Part 2 Their last weekend is on Thanks giving which for a good number of guys means they are no way in He!! Going to be hunting at least on Thanks given day unless they want a divorce!    

 

Op, ran off to the Sportsman show with my son before posting the map that went with my post. 

 

Satchmo, I didn't think you were saying that Wisconsin was doing anything better.  It's just a lot of folks hold them up as a better state for Deer when there are a lot of factors our DNR has to deal with that they don't.

 

Good thread. Lot's of close personal feelings being shared.

[Satchmo]

Big Dave2,

Just throwing the no party hunting out there as one possible solution. I certainly do not advocate getting rid of it. There are several other things being thrown around out there that I don't agree with as well.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Satchmo

[PurpleFloyd]

3 hours ago, Satchmo said:

Focus guys! Who here is advocating for APR or the end to party hunting? Answer..........Noone! To hell with the special interest groups. But if you think you can maintain the status quo for the last 3 decades and expect a healthy herd with the way it is being managed now, think again.  You will see an even further decline in hunters and hunter satisfaction. I would much rather shoot one deer per year than shoot 5 this year and then none the next 4 seasons. It's called sustainability. It's not the 80s, 90s, or even early 2000s. 

I like sustainability as well. We party hunting and while that is a dirty word to many of the solitary hunters it's what we do. We never deplete the deer in our area and it's rare for us to fill even half our tags. Nobody gets more tags than one in our area. 

I did actually make a solid proposal- habitat.

But nobody took a moment to even touch that one.

 

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the southern part of the state but here is very little habitat outside of the southeast region. You just can't maintain the numbers to hold the numbers of deer that you need to get to where everyone who wants to harvest a deer can do so.

 

There was one specific post calling for an end to party hunting.

 

Habitat, habitat, habitat.

 

We should be focusing on improving habitat, bringing youth into the lifestyle and providing a positive public image to ensure future generations can enjoy hunting as well.

 

 

[Satchmo]

1 hour ago, leech~~ said:

 

Op, ran off to the Sportsman show with my son before posting the map that went with my post. 

 

Satchmo, I didn't think you were saying that Wisconsin was doing anything better.  It's just a lot of folks hold them up as a better state for Deer when there are a lot of factors our DNR has to deal with that they don't.

 

Good thread. Lot's of close personal feelings being shared.

Leech, 

I think many areas in WI have herds that have declined just as much as MN. I hunt SE of Turtle Lake, and used to see 25+ deer on opening morning before 9am on a regular basis. Now I feel good if I see a few critters the whole weekend. The many years of "T" seasons, "Herd control, and liberal antlerless tags have  dropped numbers in that area to a fraction of what they once were. It is what it is. I don't think they are doing better than MN is, but they started with a lot larger herd.  Their wolf issues will continue in the north, and CWD in the south. I don't envy their situation either.

 

FYI,  My land sits on the south end of the wolf range in NE Wadena county, MN. They generally do not bother my area except in the spring during calving season, although I have two of the buggers wandering around last November during rifle hunting. I usually have way more issues with coyotes and bears taking my fawns than wolves. 

[Satchmo]

10 minutes ago, PurpleFloyd said:

I like sustainability as well. We party hunting and while that is a dirty word to many of the solitary hunters it's what we do. We never deplete the deer in our area and it's rare for us to fill even half our tags. Nobody gets more tags than one in our area. 

I did actually make a solid proposal- habitat.

But nobody took a moment to even touch that one.

 

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the southern part of the state but here is very little habitat outside of the southeast region. You just can't maintain the numbers to hold the numbers of deer that you need to get to where everyone who wants to harvest a deer can do so.

 

There was one specific post calling for an end to party hunting.

 

Habitat, habitat, habitat.

 

We should be focusing on improving habitat, bringing youth into the lifestyle and providing a positive public image to ensure future generations can enjoy hunting as well.

 

 

Your point is very valid on the lack of habitat in much of southern MN as it is in much of the old zone 4 area. Each area of the state has a different "hole in the bucket". While that area lacks habitat, many other areas, including mine, have plenty of habitat, but lack high quality food to get the herd thru hard winters.

[Wanderer]

3 hours ago, Big Dave2 said:

 

Improvements for you are not necessarily improvements for everyone.

Generally people want more and/or bigger.  Those two things are what’s driving the revamp of the deer plan.  No?

Quote

 

Who advised you to do that? I didn't hear anyone give out that advice.

 

PTSD flashbacks from old debates and perceived innuendo in this one.

Quote

No one called you a name at all. Seems like you are being a little dramatic today especially since it is the "meat hunter" label that is really disparaging these days.

“Antler Mongers” was one.  Equating letting young deer pass/prefer older deer as “catch and release”. May as well just shed hunt so one can brag is probably worse.  No, neither slapped on me personally but it’s part of swaying an argument against the opposition, whom I must be.

Quote

 

So you want changes only where it will benefit your way of hunting?

Doesn’t everyone?  Or lack of change if it suits you better?  That’s just human nature.

 

Yes, PF, I agree that habitat is key.  But how do we improve that if we can’t even get 50 foot buffers for cleaner water and bird habitat without driving a wedge in farmer/hunter relationships?  Not net gain public land proposals?  Not using our license fees to the fullest extent to improve habitat on the public lands we already have?  Progress there would be phenomenal.

 

I just got done with a couple hour scouting drive in the area and checked around a couple public hunting places that look great from the road.  This time of year the ground is a canvas to tell me what’s living where.  I could pretty much pinpoint the borders of the public ground/private ground transitions just by the tracks I saw.  Or lack thereof.

 

The good news is might’ve been fortunate enough to have gained some new access via a work friend relationship.  I have the go ahead for turkeys and didn’t see one box blind on the field edges.  There may be hope. 

 

Carry on.

 

Almost forgot; I just said eliminate party hunting for BUCKS.   Still game getting together to hunt with friends and help meet harvest goals.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Wanderer

[smurfy]

all this to increase the der herd, then ole mother nature comes along and throws us a couple winters it did a few years ago................and then what?

[rkhinrichs]

google search... qdma whitetail report 2018. Pretty good read.

[leech~~]

40 minutes ago, rkhinrichs said:

google search... qdma whitetail report 2018. Pretty good read.

 

Can we start keeping fish next year?? Or only if they have 8 points?  

[Big Dave2]

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

Generally people want more and/or bigger.  Those two things are what’s driving the revamp of the deer plan.  No?

 

Actually, the majority of the state's population does not hunt deer but most do drive cars so generally most people do not want more or larger deer. It's not just the voice of hunters that count.

[PurpleFloyd]

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

Generally people want more and/or bigger.  Those two things are what’s driving the revamp of the deer plan.  No?

PTSD flashbacks from old debates and perceived innuendo in this one.

“Antler Mongers” was one.  Equating letting young deer pass/prefer older deer as “catch and release”. May as well just shed hunt so one can brag is probably worse.  No, neither slapped on me personally but it’s part of swaying an argument against the opposition, whom I must be.

Doesn’t everyone?  Or lack of change if it suits you better?  That’s just human nature.

 

Yes, PF, I agree that habitat is key.  But how do we improve that if we can’t even get 50 foot buffers for cleaner water and bird habitat without driving a wedge in farmer/hunter relationships?  Not net gain public land proposals?

 

Well, first off if you are talking public lands it's tough to restrict how people legally harvest game because it's public. 

 

And you are right,it's hard to compel farmers to give up income that they rely on just so someone can hunt something. My guess is if you are willing to invest your own dollars into your own personal place to hunt you can manage it more to your liking. 

 

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

 

 

 Not using our license fees to the fullest extent to improve habitat on the public lands we already have?  Progress there would be phenomenal.

It would be good. The other option is to do what other states have done and that is having fewer people own larger tracts of land that they manage privately and you,as a consumer,can pay for the level of hunting you want. Texas has this where you pay based on the size of the deer. I suppose Minnesota could do this as well. Charge hunters per point on public land or something like that. 

 

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

 

I just got done with a couple hour scouting drive in the area and checked around a couple public hunting places that look great from the road.  This time of year the ground is a canvas to tell me what’s living where.  I could pretty much pinpoint the borders of the public ground/private ground transitions just by the tracks I saw.  Or lack thereof.

 

The good news is might’ve been fortunate enough to have gained some new access via a work friend relationship.  I have the go ahead for turkeys and didn’t see one box blind on the field edges.  There may be hope. 

 

Carry on.

 

Almost forgot; I just said eliminate party hunting for BUCKS.   Still game getting together to hunt with friends and help meet harvest goals.

I think we should just move every season to a one week period around Thanksgiving. Archery,rifle, muzzleloader etc. Out of the rut and everyone on the same even playing field as far as time goes. Reducing the time they are pressured will help the herd. 

Nobody should need any longer than that to hunt. Most of my life we only had two days to get our deer.  

[leech~~]

11 minutes ago, PurpleFloyd said:

I think we should just move every season to a one week period around Thanksgiving. Archery,rifle, muzzleloader etc.

 

Well although all-out war on Deer for a week with any hunting tool would be interesting.   It would kind of take the romance out of it if your trying to use a Bow or a smoke gun and someone is snipeing your Deer at 200 yards with a rifle! 

[Wanderer]

14 hours ago, Wanderer said:

This is exactly why nothing changes with our regulations. 

 

[leech~~]

10 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

 

 

[PurpleFloyd]

2 hours ago, leech~~ said:

 

Well although all-out war on Deer for a week with any hunting tool would be interesting.   It would kind of take the romance out of it if your trying to use a Bow or a smoke gun and someone is snipeing your Deer at 200 yards with a rifle! 

But there would be more and bigger deer walking around. Probably better age structure too. 

[Wanderer]

@satchamo

 

Sorry for letting this conversation circle the drain but it often happens with these other players.  I hope your other survey is going better.

 

Buh bye now.  I’ll leave these three to whip out more heckling memes and worthless comments like school children on their ever shrinking playground.

[PurpleFloyd]

1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

@satchamo

 

Sorry for letting this conversation circle the drain but it often happens with these other players.  I hope your other survey is going better.

 

Buh bye now.  I’ll leave these three to whip out more heckling memes and worthless comments like school children on their ever shrinking playground.

Lol.

 

So did the OP want opinions or to only hear support for one opinion? 

 

I was under the impression this country was founded by people who wanted vigorous debate and every opinion heard. It's pretty telling that you pick up your toys and go home when someone doesn't agree lock step with your ideals.

And not one person is asking you to change how you hunt, they are merely asking you to not try to regulate how we do as long as we are following the law.

 

I expect these tactics from the liberals who are marching all over to remove our rights through regulation. It's sad when we are having it done by fellow hunters.

[ANYFISH2]

Firearms deer hunters are such a diverse demographic.  Agreement will always be difficult.

Unity however shouldnt be, we should be supportive of our fellow hunters.  This is where we are suffering the most as a hunting group.

We dont have to agree on point restriction, party hunting, deer drives, and ect... We sure as heck, better support each other and represent each other in eyes of the non-hunting public well or our passions for deer hunting will slowly be eroded way!

Nothing is worse than ethical hunters calling other ethical hunters names or stereotyping each other.

 

Here are some of my stances:

1. I am completely on board with habitat improvements across the state.  Wildlife cutting of trees not just clear-cuts of aspen and pine then regrowth of a monoculture.  Until forestry can implement true wildlife considerations thier complaints towards deer leave little impact on me.  We need more planting of woody browse across MN.

 

2. Limit liberal bag limits in MN to areas that are way over populated.  Then only use a season or two.  20 deer per square mile (pre-fawn)in the transition zone is not to many.  In my opinion.  Sustainable target of a managed designation would be great.  Will allow people to keep hunting, yet majority will still only shot 0-1 deer.

 

3. APR here in the transition zone I would be ok with for me!  

I will not, however, beat the drum for legislation or a call to the DNR to expand it here  or anywhere.  I am not of the belief antler size should dictate the value of the hunt for anyone.

 

4. Party hunting IS a long held tradition in MN. I like it, and support its inclusion in our firearms season.  

Yes, it is abused by some.  Even if it was outlawed, how are our limited number of Conseevation Officers going to enforce it?  They cant slow the abuse now with it legal.

Again, a law against party hunting will just punish the law abiding hunters not the abusers.

 

In the end, I hunt with friends that only shot deer, worthy by thier standards, of a shoulder mount.  

They love deer and deer hunting, that is the deer they chose to shoot.

I hunt with Rifle only hunters that only hunt 2 maybe 3 days.  Those are 2-3 of thier favorite days of the year.  Most years they dont shoot a deer, when they do they are excited whether it be a doe, small buck or a big one.  

_They love deer and deer hunting!

 

I also hunt with people who want to shoot as many deer as they are allowed.  They use venison as thier staple meat source for much of the year.  They follow laws and regs and are good hunters.  

They love Deer and Deer hunting.

[Satchmo]

^^^^Ding,Ding,Ding..........We have a winner!  Thanks ANYFISH2. This entire conversation should be about banding together to build a healthy sustainable herd that everyone can enjoy as they choose.

[PurpleFloyd]

36 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

^^^^Ding,Ding,Ding..........We have a winner!  Thanks ANYFISH2. This entire conversation should be about banding together to build a healthy sustainable herd that everyone can enjoy as they choose.

Correct. 

Can we agree that the state is diverse and it's not in anyone's best interest to try and pass statewide legislation for any group? 

 

It seems to me we should put aside anything that deals with how we hunt and focus on providing the best possible habitat for the deer and understanding how the population and patterns deer follow change from region to region and focus on solving problems by area and not statewide. 

[Big Dave2]

I agree with ANYFISH2 but you guys do realize that hunters are a tool used to control deer populations, right? I'm not too sure that you can get non-hunters on board with increasing deer populations so they can hit them with their Mercedes......

[Big Dave2]

11 hours ago, Wanderer said:

@satchamo

 

Sorry for letting this conversation circle the drain but it often happens with these other players.  I hope your other survey is going better.

 

Buh bye now.  I’ll leave these three to whip out more heckling memes and worthless comments like school children on their ever shrinking playground.

 

Here's a heckling meme for ya.......