Documents from an actual Chiropractor

[leechlake]

52 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

Your bodies innate intelligence will take care of it.

while that's part of it Del I don't think that's the whole thing.   Once again, you're a simpleton

oh yeah...you're old and your BMI sucks!

 

[delcecchi]

Well, you got two out of three.  Not bad for a loser amateur. 

[leech~~]

1 hour ago, leechlake said:

while that's part of it Del I don't think that's the whole thing.   Once again, you're a simpleton

oh yeah...you're old and your BMI sucks!

 

Doh, that's not very nice LL.

[RebelSS]

[LindellProStaf]

19 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Ok but only if she has a BMI of 20 or she is not even worth going for!

So I don't quite get it.  Why do you care if she has a bowel movement?  AND is that centimeters?

[leechlake]

15 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Doh, that's not very nice LL.

It was my version of someone else.  Del knows I like him and I've defended and respect his age and his BMI may be better than mine

Besides, I had a half awake dream last night and said something about a chiro to my wife and either it worked and my body feels better or my antibiotics finally kicked in.  I'm going with both.   A little positive thinking never hurt.  

 

Edited April 9, 2016 by leechlake

[leech~~]

2 hours ago, LindellProStaf said:

So I don't quite get it.  Why do you care if she has a bowel movement?  AND is that centimeters?

Me either read entire thread?

[LindellProStaf]

yes i did.  Just trying to be funny Leech....

[DrJuice1980]

I wonder why it's getting blackballed?

http://vaxxedthemovie.com/

Edited April 10, 2016 by DrJuice1980

[delcecchi]

Because it is full of bovine excrement. Made by guy who lost license in England for fraudulent behavior.

Edited April 10, 2016 by delcecchi

[DrJuice1980]

Do you know that for fact?  Possibly blackballed as well, or can't that be an option?

 

[delcecchi]

I read a summary and a couple of reviews.  It is listed as by Andrew Wakefield. He is the disgraced doctor who wrote the original article erroneously or fraudulently linking mmr vaccine to autism.  Upon further investigation the article was withdrawn by the publisher, and Wakefield lost his medical license due to his dishonesty. 

Your anti-vaccination beliefs are built on a foundation of fraud and lies.

[swamptiger]

2 hours ago, delcecchi said:

I read a summary and a couple of reviews.  It is listed as by Andrew Wakefield. He is the disgraced doctor who wrote the original article erroneously or fraudulently linking mmr vaccine to autism.  Upon further investigation the article was withdrawn by the publisher, and Wakefield lost his medical license due to his dishonesty. 

Your anti-vaccination beliefs are built on a foundation of fraud and lies.

 

2012:

" Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s Co-Author on Controversial Lancet “MMR Paper” Exonerated of All Charges of Professional Misconduct Prof. John Walker-Smith won his appeal today against the GMC, the UK’s medical regulatory board that had ruled against both him and Andrew Wakefield for their roles in the 1998 Lancet MMR paper, which raised questions about a link to autism. The complete victory means that Walker-Smith has been returned to the status of a fully licensed physician in the UK."

 

Dr. Wakefield apparently didn't have the funds available to fight the charges.

http://www.prweb.com/pdfdownload/9262180.pdf

[delcecchi]

Let's look at wakefield... Maybe he lied to his co-authors. The insurance company decided not to throw good money after bad. 

And seriously?  The Canary Party? 

I will post an abridged version of the Wikipedia entry for Wakefield, or read it yourself.  He lost big in Austin, TX and had to pay legal expenses. 

Oops he ought to be ashamed of himself.... found this while looking for that lawsuit

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2011/04/02/somali-autism-vaccines

Quote

Health officials struggling to contain a measles outbreak that's hit hard in Minneapolis' large Somali community are running into resistance from parents who fear the vaccine could give their children autism.

Fourteen confirmed measles cases have been reported in Minnesota since February. Half have been in Somali children, six of whom were not vaccinated and one who was not old enough for shots.

State officials have linked all but one of the cases to an unvaccinated Somali infant who returned from a trip to Kenya in February. The state had reported zero or one case of measles a year for most of the past decade.

Amid the outbreak, a now-discredited British researcher who claimed there was a link between vaccines and autism has been meeting with local Somalis. Some worry Andrew Wakefield is stoking vaccination fears, but organizers say the meetings were merely a chance for parents to ask him questions.

.... more at link...

 

And from the pdf you posted the link to...From the Canary Party...

Quote

This year, however, Dr. Wakefield, who now
conducts his research in the US, has filed a defamation lawsuit against Brian Deer, Fiona Godlee and the British
Medical Journal for falsely accusing him of “fraud.” The suit, case number D-1-GN-12-000003, is currently
underway in District Court in Travis County, Texas, where Wakefield now lives. The ruling today bodes well
for Dr. Wakefield’s suit against Deer, on whose reporting the entire GMC hearing was based.

And now the rest of the story from Wikipedia...

Quote

In January 2012 Wakefield filed a defamation lawsuit in Texas state court against Deer, Fiona Godlee, and the BMJ for false accusations of fraud, seeking a jury trial in Travis County. The filing identified Wakefield as a resident of Austin,^[108][109] and cited the "Texas Long-Arm Statute" as justification for initiating the proceeding in Texas. The journal responded that it stood by its reports and would "defend the claim vigorously".^[110][111]In August 2012 District Court Judge Amy Meachum dismissed Wakefield's suit.^{[112][113][114]} Her ruling was upheld on appeal in September 2014 and Wakefield was ordered to pay all parties' costs.^[115][116]

Ouch.  That''s got to sting.. 

And if you read the accounts on Wikipedia sounds like Canary party not telling the story correctly.

Edited April 11, 2016 by delcecchi

[swamptiger]

I really don't know the whole story, and you obviously don't either.  But you choose to regurgitate the stories generated by the media.

 

A few questions come to mind:

1.)  Why was one of the co-authors of the research paper exonerated and re-instated if the article was fraudulent?  Or wasn't he?  If he was, how could one author of the same paper be found guilty, while the other wasn't?  (Actually three of the several co-authors involved were charged in the first place, and only two were found "guilty" in the kangaroo court).

2.) You don't believe the Canary Party exists?  Do you have any evidence they don't?  

I honestly don't know, but by all means, go ahead and prove it.

 

3.) If he was guilty of fraud, why didn't he go to jail?

 

 

Lastly, Dr. Wakefield is definately not an anti-vaxxer.  His contention was that the MMR vaccination should be separated, not ended.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by swamptiger

[swamptiger]

One more question, del.

What does Merck & Co. have to do with all this, if anything?

[delcecchi]

I give up.  Do they manufacture MMR vaccine?  What about them?

Did you read the "andrew wakefield" article on Wikipedia?   It seemed to be well sourced.   Wakefield in particular comes across as sort of whacko.   He thought he knew the truth and would do what it took to convince people, even if the data needed to be adjusted or selected, is the impression I got.   Fraud in research happens.   The cancer guy at Duke a few years ago comes to mind.  I guess it is hard to give up when the data to support your theory just doesn't line up after all that work. 

In this case Wakefield has hurt  people by convincing them to do the wrong thing. 

And here is a relevant quote from the Wikipedia article...since the discussion is about Chiropractic...

Quote

On 24 April 2015, Wakefield received two standing ovations from the students at Life Chiropractic College West when he told them to oppose Senate Bill SB277, a bill which proposes limits on non-medical vaccine exemptions.^[138] Wakefield had previously been a featured speaker at a 2014 "California Jam" gathering of chiropractors,^[139] as well as a 2015 "California Jam" seminar, with continuing education credits, sponsored by Life Chiropractic College West.

 

[swamptiger]

Quote

In this case Wakefield has hurt  people by convincing them to do the wrong thing.

I believe the actual allegation from the GMC was "damaging the program"..

 

 

How does a quack like Dr. Wakefield get an audience with the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons?

 

[delcecchi]

When was the picture taken?  He was well known and respected until the truth came out, in like 2010.  Paper was published in 1998.   

And AAPS isn't what you think it is  It is a "small, politically conservative group" founded to fight "socialized medicine".  It is not the AMA or equivalent professional medical society.  The group and their journal are known for advocating non-mainstream beliefs,

Quote

The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited theories, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there are links between autism and vaccinations.

So, it stands to reason that they would invite him.  Heck, he was getting cheered by the Chiros last year. 

Next you will be telling me it is all a conspiracy by CDC and NIH to enrich the vaccine manufacturers.  

[swamptiger]

Quote

When was the picture taken?  He was well known and respected until the truth came out, in like 2010.  Paper was published in 1998.   

 

It's not a picture - it's a you tube video made in 2011, and you obviously didn't watch it.

 

One of the points he made in the speech is the concept of "pour encourager les autres".

Don't like the message?  Cut off the head of the messager.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by swamptiger

[delcecchi]

He is shouting fire in a crowded theater, is my point of view.  I missed that it was a video. 

I take it he is still insisting there is a link, and the rest of the world is wrong? 

[swamptiger]

9 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

He is shouting fire in a crowded theater, is my point of view.  I missed that it was a video. 

I take it he is still insisting there is a link, and the rest of the world is wrong? 

 

Too busy to watch the video, I take it...

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by swamptiger

[delcecchi]

Give me an abstract of why I should watch a known fraud addressing a fringe group.  There are people who I don't watch because I know that I cannot believe what they say.   He is one of them. 

I would scan a transcript, or read a summary.  Is it the same stuff he told the Somalis in Minneapolis? 

[bobbymalone]

2 hours ago, swamptiger said:

 

Too busy to watch the video, I take it...

 

Blinders?  Says the guy that thinks the lack of crippled polio victims has nothing to do with vaccination.

[swamptiger]

Quote

Blinders?  Says the guy that thinks the lack of crippled polio victims has nothing to do with vaccination.

Huh?

 

 

Remember, contrary to the spin from mainstream media, Dr. Wakefield is not an anti-vaxxer.

And neither am I.

1 hour ago, delcecchi said:

Give me an abstract of why I should watch a known fraud addressing a fringe group.  There are people who I don't watch because I know that I cannot believe what they say.   He is one of them. 

I would scan a transcript, or read a summary.  Is it the same stuff he told the Somalis in Minneapolis? 

 

What did he tell the Somalis?

 

I would be more inclined to believe they are leery of vaccinations because of Bill Gates' vaccination/population control program...

http://www.thenation.com/article/can-costly-campaign-eradicate-polio-nigeria-possibly-succeed/

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by swamptiger