Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[laker1]

Friend in North Dakota has to wait 3 years even to get a whitetail license in his own state.

Most of Wisconsin is South of the north end of Mille lacs so it is usually much warmer and less severe winters.

I wonder can you compare states .

[Farmsfulltime]

Theres a lot of comparing being done in fact the plan is to push wisconsin management style in Minnesota ,Watch for it it will come soon via the groups howling for change Just a heads up maybe two weeks , at least by the end of the year

[Red Miller]

You guys are too funny. A couple of bad winters and a bad deer hunt and ...wah, wah, wah!

Lets point the finger and find someone to blame (and hang). Everybody talking smart. Some day you will figure out that you cant manage mother nature. She will kick your *ss every time. Put your big boy pants on and read it and weep.

[smsmith]

Theres a lot of comparing being done in fact the plan is to push wisconsin management style in Minnesota ,Watch for it it will come soon via the groups howling for change Just a heads up maybe two weeks , at least by the end of the year

Hahaha...too funny FFT. Do a bit of fact checking. WI just implemented a public stakeholder process...like MN has. Only theirs is legitimate and doesn't have pre-selected decisions by their DNR. In other words, a true "public" stakeholder process. Members of their teams are from private Forestry, Farm Bureau, WI Dept. of Tourism, the WI Conservation Congress, and sportsmen groups. The WI DNR has representatives on the teams too, but they are not voting members. They are there to answer questions and provide (legitimate, science based) data. Teams vote whether to increase, decrease, or maintain the deer herd. The WI DNR does retain the right to "overrule" the team decisions if they don't make any biological sense (like say if the teams voted to increase the herd in Shawano and Waupaca counties where densities exceed 100 dpsm in spots). Time will tell how their process works, but the vast majority of WI deer hunters I've spoken to are pretty pleased with it.

[laker1]

Change in quota's and management for deer is changing,now you have advisory committees forming etc. Let it takes it coarse,if it doesn't work,than ask for a audit etc.

Look around the country and many states wildlife management is all politics.

[Farmsfulltime]

Lots of unhappy complainers in Wisconsin too sometimes even the same ones as in Minnesota , This group will never be happy no matter how the seasons are changed im just happy that there are a majority in Minnesota that can see thru the smoke and know that what we have works well and wont drastically be changed a few less doe tags one maybe two years, Have the stakeholder meetings voice your concerns that's what its for fast forward 5 years look in the mirror and what we have had in the recent past is what we will have then

[smsmith]

Change in quota's and management for deer is changing,now you have advisory committees forming etc. Let it takes it coarse,if it doesn't work,than ask for a audit etc.

We shall see the outcome of this round of public stakeholder meetings. If they're legitimate and the recommendations are made without being told in advance what the outcomes are going to be by the MN DNR...I'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't have a lot of faith in them seeing as one unit in SE MN made a legitimate recommendation of 18 dpsm and was overruled by Leslie. Seems like the outcomes were pre-ordained once again. If that's the case...why even have them? Just a waste of the team members' time and our tax dollars.

[Farmsfulltime]

Outcomes are pre determined but you want in have a seat at the table go thru the process that what its for

[smsmith]

Outcomes are pre determined but you want in have a seat at the table go thru the process that what its for

Huh? That makes zero sense to me. Outcomes are pre determined but I should sit there and waste my time to find out that whatever I say has no impact on the outcome? Sure...that makes a lot of sense.

I applied, if I get on the team I will indeed sit through the process. If it is legitimate, I will say so. If it isn't, I will say so.

[laker1]

I think somebody has to make sure other head wildlife personnel get involved beside Leslie.

I also think most of wildlife staff are going into these meeting open minded. These staff members for the most part care very deeply. They spent many years in College etc. because they care about wildlife and hunting for the most part.

Advisory committees fail when the average citizen doesn't get involved.

Forestry ruled many of these committees in the past because the forest industry pushed many of their own people onto these committees with their own agenda.

.

SmSmitm I give you credit for trying to get on a committee

[Farmsfulltime]

Im sure you will

[hunter76]

Here's my 2 cents. Quit have the gun season during the rut! Let these bucks at least get the chance to breed the does. I even think a buck lottery system should get implemented. At least in SW MN do it. Having the slug season during the rut is just plain stupid in my opinion. And people wonder why we never get the "monster bucks". Hmm, I wonder why?

[docc8]

Wow. I have been reading all these posts and am dumbfounded by the responses. I hunt 178 and this year has been the worst I've ever experienced including the early 90's. I saw one deer in 7 days Everybody wants to point the finger at the DNR or the government The fact is the harvest numbers are down primarily from our last 2 winters and wolves. Everybody within 2 miles of us practice selective harvest and won't harvest anything less than an 8 pointer. Also we haven't harvested a doe in probably 10 years. To say its from over harvest in our area is a lie. The last 2 winters have kicked the dump out of our deer heard. We have trail cam picks from last winter with snow up to the chest of deer. It's sad but it's out of our control. pray for a better winter but it's not looking good. I suspect we will have a shortened season next year if this keeps up

[laker1]

The north zones had two very hard winters in a row. Not since the 1995-97 era has it been this hard

[Early Riser]

During my walks in our 3 square mile hunting area in far NE MN, I came to believe that the last two winters were very hard on fawns and some of the more mature bucks. I shot my buck by noon on Monday after seeing 6 mature doe just that morning. The deer seemed to be concentrated and wolf sign was down as well. There were large tracks of land with virtually no deer sign, and comparatively little buck sign in particular.

I would defer to the biologists, but I did wonder a bit while out int he woods if a hunter's choice of one buck or one doe might make more sense in terms of balancing the population in areas of low hunter density by saving some of those more viable 1.5 year old bucks that could grow into the kind of deer we like to see more often.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

171 after a solid week, no buck sign in fact our total sightings for 3 of us were 7 over the first week. not one buck on trail cam, no sign of the rut even taking place.

We looked back over the years and typically averaged about 14 sightings over the first week, with the knowledge that of those 14 some were repeat offenders. Of the 7, two were presumed to be the same doe and fawn.

Wolves and wolf sign again just like last year, this year our party had 1 tag but haven't seen one yet. Working on a presumption that they pack had run through there prior to opening day.

The weather this past week until friday also sucked, strong winds and snow really limits deer movement too IMO, but the lack of sign was really frustrating.

I think that there was an over harvest coupled with an increase in 4 legged predators and consecutive awful winters, but my season was carp- still beats working though

[CANOPY SAM]

I'm in with Early Riser on the Hunter's Choice option. A large portion of NW MN is bucks only this year, and I hate to say it, but the general mentality in this area is fill the tags and fill the freezer. This is only going to result in every single animal with visible antler being shot immediately.

The "pantload" comment made me laugh out loud. That's funny stuff right there.

I'm not against people sharing their thoughts and opinions. Not at all. But honestly, is it realistic to blame the ENTIRE issue on the game managers?

Yes, I believe in, and support the DNR. I know many of the people that work in these offices. Most of them are a LOT smarter then I am. I know they have the resource's best interest at heart. Will they get every decision right? Can they possibly know the exact numbers of every species of animal in every hunting zone throughout the state? I think common sense would tell us all, No. But I trust they are doing their best.

I cannot imagine what our state would look like now without their intervention and management of the our resources.

I had a discussion with a fellow that was deeply entrenched in the Mille Lacs issue on another forum. His approach was very similar to many here. Anger, finger pointing, spiteful comments, blaming, etc., and I understand his passion over the issue. However, the reality is, if folks here really do want to express their concerns, and actually be heard by the folks who are in charge of making these decisions, they'll have to be able to articulate these concerns, back them up with real facts and evidence, and express them with an objective opinion, rather then with bitterness and frustration.

It's the truth guys. The process will work, but level heads will prevail. Those that rant and rave that the decision makers are idiots will simply be dismissed from the discussion.

Stay positive and good things will happen with time. But it's not going to happen overnight. That should be very obvious.

[smsmith]

Stay positive and good things will happen with time. But it's not going to happen overnight. That should be very obvious.

Okay, how much time? It would seem to me that the DNR has over a decade to get the "kinks worked out". Harvest has trended significantly downward for 10 of the last 11 years I believe. It appears to me (a biased guy who likes to see deer when he's hunting), that the goal is a very small deer herd (speaking relatively over the last 15-20 years). Apparently, that is "ok" with quite a few deer hunters.

As long as the majority of hunters are "ok" with total harvests between 113K-170K...I'd say don't worry a bit.

[maxx rpm]

docc8, I am in 178 as well, and was the best year I have had in the past four years. Most does, most bucks. Driving down the roads, same amount of deer in same fields. Saw all my deer in mid day. I am not seeing a lack of deer. Can't explain your situation, but goes to show differences in even the same zones.

I am not in favor of this "everyone is ENTITLED to a big buck, opening morning" deal that is going on. It is work and luck. I guess I was never spoiled by hunting great areas. Small bucks, few and far between, some does, when you would draw a permit. Happy getting out, enjoying the time in the woods, and always felt as though I get what I get. Some people on farms had choices of bucks, great for them. I had less choices hunting public land, and it makes one more appreciative when you get one. It confuses me as to how only shooting bucks this year will make more bucks for next year. And like someone said, okay, more spikes/forks, well they will get shot as well next year. Not sure what the dnr is trying to do here. If people don't think there is enough deer, don't shoot any. No does, no bucks, and there will be more next year. Make it hunter choice for the happy ones like myself, and everyone will be happy. "Well our group only saw 20 deer so far", 20 deer?? Wholy dump, I would be greatful to see such a herd. Makes me wonder why so few people wonder what it is all about, just that huge buck? Or about being out in the woods?

[Don Brinkman]

In response to Don's statement above, which seems to be a prevalent opinion here on FM, and on other forums, I would ask this. First please know that I don't know the answer to this question myself...at least in terms of Wisconsin.

If the harsh winters, and wolf population increase are of no consequence to the low deer numbers we're now seeing, and our alleged incompetent land managers in the state of Minnesota are the only reason our deer herd is suffering so badly, then how can you explain the gross reductions in deer herds to both the states east and west of us as well? Or at least in North Dakota?

Are the game and fish managers in Wisconsin and North Dakota all so miserably bad at their jobs that they are all causing a major big game reduction thru poor management practices in all our neighboring states as well? Are they all "in" on a secret agenda to systematically take away one of our prized natural resources?

The truth is, what "Fever" says above is exactly correct. There may have been a few poor decisions in regard to previous year's particular harvest levels in particular areas, but there is absolutely no question that the overall decline in our deer herd, and neighboring state's deer herds, are the result of a COMBINATION of factors, many of which are completely outside of the DNR's, and Game and Fish Dept's control.

The "let's find a scapegoat" witch hunt mentality has got to stop.

It's so easy to hide in the shadows and take cheap shots at those that have the courage and desire to lead, and make positive change. It's cowardly, and does absolutely nothing to improve our situation.

Please, do us ALL a favor. Keep the negativity, blame and shame stuff to yourselves. For those of us that can actually see the forest for the trees, your constant negative blaming is falling on deaf ears.

I love the earlier statements on this page. Be a part of the solution, or please keep your unproductive comments to yourselves.

Deer numbers were going south long before the last 2 winters, and I do think wolves have allot to do with fawn survival. And there numbers should be kept in check. I gave up rifle hunting in the rifle zone I used to hunt over 5 years ago because of the way I seen it being managed and switched to bow hunting the metro area.

I spent a couple weeks grouse hunting, same place I used to Deer hunt and I actually seen more deer this year then I have in the last 5 or so, I credited this to the wolf hunting and the DNR cut back on doe permits. They seemed to survive winter just fine.

As far as game and fish managers go I don't know anything about Wisconsin or the Dakotas, but the manager who used to be in charge of Minnesota deer management publicly stated in the St. Paul pioneer press a few years back his name was Lou Cornicelli that the days of Deer hunters going in the woods and seeing 2-3 deer are over, they publicly stated they wanted to reduce the overall deer population by 25%.

That is why we are in the situation we are in today. I don't remember any deer hunters complaint there were to many deer. More likely some no hunting citizens and auto insurance lobbyist were complaining about car deer accidents, and instead of putting up fence or some other way to reduce accidents they decided to decimate our deer herd.

One more thingt last years weather used to be the norm, you should expect cold and snow from November until end of April.

[Old Dewjabber]

Here's my 2 cents. Quit have the gun season during the rut!

How bout not opening up bow till gun season. Those bucks never see rut either! Outlawing trail cams so people have the same chance as those who don't.

[jay83196]

Why don't people use a knife jump from a tree and stab the deer! Be a man don't need a gun! This conversation has gone stupid.

[96trigger]

What he said... The number of bucks taken with a bow is a fraction of what gets taken with a gun. I don't see moving the season back as doing much either, the bucks will chase all of November until the last doe comes into estrus. I don't think it would have the impact people think it would. My trail cams show as much or more daytime movement after the firearm season in late November than any other time in the year. After this season, it won't be a lot colder than what we just hunted in either.

[docc8]

Marx. I suspect you don't have the wolf population that we do. I had a pack come through about a 200 yards from me. I never saw them but I suspect 5-7. Heard them every night and awfully close to us. 3 years ago I was passing on 8 pointers and a couple young 10 pointers. It's really scary how this can happen in 2 years. The wolves will leave secondary to lack of food. Hope they don't come your way. We have even noticed the lack of animals period such as squirrels and other animals. Kind of crazy to nothing at all in the stand. Btw we hunt hard. Glad someone is doing well in our area. Good luck everyone. It will get better but probably not for 3-5 years

[Old Dewjabber]

This conversation has gone stupid.

I agree. That's why I made the statement!!! Technology has changed the way people hunt with fewer and fewer hunters every year! Less and less places also!

Don't knock me because I only spend 2 weekends max time involved in deer hunting with a GUN possibly during peak of the RUT.

Sick of some bow hunters trying to control or have there way so the can harvest trophies. Can't eat the antlers!