Posting Land/Handling Trespassers and Neighbors

[fivebucks]

Non posted non ag land you will not be successfully prosecuted for trespassing - I know first hand at least based on the trespass laws 20 years ago. I was pheasant hunting a slough area that was 3/4 a WMA and 1/4 private property with nothing posted. There was a very old fence line that was all knocked down and has not been maintained for at least a dozen years. That is pretty typical when someone donates the land to the state for hunting. Long story short I hunted around the whole slough never going onto any ag land. The farmer/owner came out and was livid and being a first class jerk. I apologized and stated I had no idea I was on private property and said I would leave right away. He kept going on and on for about 10-15 minutes just reading me the riot act without letting up. I bit my tongue as long as I could and then told him to go ahead and call the CO. I even gave him my name and address wishing him good luck. He also took my plate number and told him I was not illegal and he could try all he wanted to prosecute me but he had no leg to stand on. So this guy gets the CO out there later and about a week later he contacts me to get my side of the story. I told him and he was able to verify by our boot tracks we did not walk on ag land. The CO told me I was 100% legal. The owner even went to the CO's boss and found out from him also that since his land was non posted non-ag land it was legal for people to hunt it. Believe me if he could have prosecuted me he would have. The trespass laws may have been changed in the last 20 years but I still interpret them to be the same in regards to non-posted non-ag land. I do advocate asking permission whenever possible and as a hunting land owner myself I respect other's property. I do make it a point to post my land though. That's my point of view in this 25 page too long ramble.

[smsmith]

The thing is that if the locals don't like the outsiders then they probably shouldn't take the outsiders "contributions" that impact their life either. Can't have it both ways...although it seems that many times the locals actually do get to have it both ways.

I understand your point...but it doesn't work that way

The "tension" in MN between locals and metro folks (not what they're called by the locals) is pretty much identical to the tension in northeast WI between locals and those folks from Chicago (not what they're called either) or northwest WI between locals and metro folks.

Locals appreciate the influx of money from the big city folks, but they sure aren't going to feel "beholden" to those people.

[harvey lee]

Del

When I was talking about a piece of the sign tore off or missing, I was talking about the North Dakota law, not MN. Just to clear that up.

[Wanderer]

Just a notable from Outdoor News Cuffs and Collars this week:

CO Matt Frericks (Virginia) spent time investigating reports about dumping garbage. By going through the garbage pile, CO Frericks was able to find and piece together enough information to locate the owner of the garbage. Still more deer baits are being found. Reports about people posting state land with “no trespassing” signs are being investigated and monitored.

I've been continuing to follow along with this thread and have quite a bit I'd like to comment on but don't have the time to write a book.

Basically it boils down to problems being caused by a few on both sides of the fence, pun intended. If we all take the time to read and understand the laws and abide by them, and then follow up with being civil to one another, everything can be worked out without too much strife.

One comment I will take the time to make though since I felt compelled to look these things up: Trespassing (real estate) is defined as entering another's land without permission. It's a word, not a crime. The State determines at what point it becomes an infraction of the law. One thing it is NOT for sure is a felony, and moreover not a violent felony. Having a violent felony committed toward your person is the only time self defense by bodily harm is legally acceptable. That is applied equally to landowners and trespassers.

Stay safe out there. We're all in this together whether you agree with the rules or not.

[leechlake]

heck, I'm not asking for anyone to beholden to me one bit. Just don't drive down my 1/8 mile driveway and shoot at a deer by my cabin assuming all the metro folks close their place down after Labor Day.

On a separate note if is funny all the deer that bail out of the woods and hang out by all the cabins. No wonder the guys troll the area. Oh well, I'm going to South Dakota tomorrow for a few days chasing ducks and roosters I'm done ranting for a while

[harvey lee]

As I have said all along, just ask, no problems for anyone.

None of these issues would arise if the largest percentage would simply ask if they can go on another's property. Yes there will always be a few who think they can do as they please but that is a very small percentage. They will never change just like fish hogs.

One can say, I cannot find the owner and I do not know where the property lines are, yes, once in a great while that happens but again, a very small percentage if one takes the time to check it all out.

So simple, maybe this saying might factor in here, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

[bigbucks]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread Harvey. I know there's a difference it legal posting, but a rule of thumb should definitely be if you see any type of posting unless you absolutely 100% know it's public land, stay out. If I ever thought about going on land without permission because the owner wasn't there to ask & saw game to pursue, there's no way I would consider it if there was any type of posted, no hunting, no trespass, keep out sign, you name it. If you can clearly tell the owner's intent, staff off.

I get where private land butts up to public land & can see where it might be hard to tell if it's not posted & think an owner's leaving the door pretty wide open if that boundary's not well marked with postings.

[RK]

Right now on our farm in west central mn we have a trespasser that has been sneaking on to our land to use the stands of a bowhunter that has hunted our land for decades. The guy who hunts our place is very careful in picking which stands he hunts when so he doesn't burn them, but now he has some jack wagon burning his stands anyhow. He's frustrated and my brother who farms there is furious.

In this case there's no way the guy could plead ignorance either. To get where he's been going, he has to at a minimum cross multiple stretches of tilled land, go through stands of trees along the country road that are properly posted then cross tilled land, or cross fences and cross tilled land.

Whether it's posted or not there will always be some who just do not care. It's stuff like this that really turns a landowner off from letting anyone other than family or very close friends hunt there even when they do ask.

I expect I'll also be dealing with wandering hunters during gun season. The guys our neighbor allows to hunt his place seem to have a real problem remembering where the property lines are even though I've showed them several times over the years. In one case the guy was actually sitting in my stand when I went out for an evening sit...

Irony here is the landowner whose land they DO have permission to hunt on is a raving lunatic about trespassers. Posted plastic signs aren't enough for him. Nor is our fenceline. Every couple hundred feet along where his property line joins ours, he has metal posts poured in concrete with sheet metal welded to them, and "No Trespassing" welded into the sheet steel. The posts are all painted fluorescent green. But, he has stands right along the fence line (also made of sheet steel - they look like bunkers), and has no problem shooting over the property line.

Other than trailing a wounded deer we've never trespassed on his place, but when we tell him the guys he has hunting his land trespass on ours all the time, he just shrugs. Some people...

Harvey has the right of it - ask in any case. If you get told no, accept it. Sadly, chances are someone who didn't ask has already poisoned the well ahead of you...

[harvey lee]

You got it RK, many landowners are sick and tired of people thinking they can just walk in without asking and then they close up all the land they own to everyone, that is why I try to tell others to ask. It would be better for all if we all did this.

I know, we have to right to do this and that but in the end, there will be very few acres left to hunt as some believe if it is not posted exactly to the letter of the law, that gives them the right to just walk in. I will never understand that type of thinking.

Please just ask, it is so simple for 99% of the situations out there. Everyone would be better for it.

[delcecchi]

Del,

I get your twist on the story and I understand the "outsider" thought process also. While I understand it however many times these "outsiders" are funding the local school, as an example, through property taxes. So I as a land owner/cabin owner in Hubbard County pay higher taxes than the local "non-outsiders" and for my contribution I have less of a right to keep people off of my land because I also live in the Twin Cities, heck I was born and raised in Edina, MN which makes it even worse. I'm a true outsider.

(snip)

The old "what's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable". Outsiders may be paying the taxes but they are also making the property unaffordable for locals and sometimes acting like jerkbaits. And some of the locals resent all of those things. Having a "rich cake eating" 612'er post a piece of land that they have been hunting for years can be sort of irritating.

[PropsterII]

Here you go

[smsmith]

Outsiders may be paying the taxes but they are also making the property unaffordable for locals and sometimes acting like jerkbaits. And some of the locals resent all of those things. Having a "rich cake eating" 612'er post a piece of land that they have been hunting for years can be sort of irritating.

Yup. Plus...the locals live there. They know when the metro folks are up and when they're not. That's absolutely no reason to go trespassing, but if a landowner from the cities is a "jerkbait"...be prepared to deal with local disrespect.

[brittman]

Yup. Plus...the locals live there. They know when the metro folks are up and when they're not. That's absolutely no reason to go trespassing, but if a landowner from the cities is a "jerkbait"...be prepared to deal with local disrespect.

Trail cams are helpful on that issue.

[smsmith]

Trail cams are helpful on that issue.

Absolutely. So is not being a jerkbait

[laker1]

I think this topic got twisted about every which way and people forgot what the original question was?

[brittman]

Good dialog though from all facets.

[delcecchi]

Yup. Plus...the locals live there. They know when the metro folks are up and when they're not. That's absolutely no reason to go trespassing, but if a landowner from the cities is a "jerkbait"...be prepared to deal with local disrespect.

Local law enforcement and judges live in the community. They have friends and engage in social activities. That doesn't mean that they won't bust folks for crimes, but I would venture that maybe someone doing a little hunting while the owner isn't around might not be real high priority.

There seems to be a certain tribal nature in some areas up north. Maybe all over the state.

[smsmith]

There seems to be a certain tribal nature in some areas up north. Maybe all over the state.

Not sure about "tribal" or what you'd consider "up north"...but there are definitely ties that run deep in small communities well away from the metro. I'd use "clannish" rather than tribal...but that's probably just semantics.

[delcecchi]

Yes, clannish or close-knit is a better term. I didn't totally like tribal but I couldn't come up with a better word at the time.

[leechlake]

"The old "what's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable". Outsiders may be paying the taxes but they are also making the property unaffordable for locals and sometimes acting like jerkbaits. And some of the locals resent all of those things. Having a "rich cake eating" 612'er post a piece of land that they have been hunting for years can be sort of irritating."

I guess this must be like a liberal/conservative issue where neither party is going to agree with the other. It is irritating to me when my 14 year old daughter and wife are out at the shed getting some wood and some 218'er blasts a deer in my unaffordable driveway 200 feet from them. But after all his grandpa homesteaded 160 acres in 1903 and when his girlfriend is ahead of me at the grocery store she's using a WIC card. Nice seeing them at the bar on Friday's at 3pm too. Thank God I don't have one of the Million dollar cabins on the lake, I'd really be asking for it then.

[delcecchi]

It is what it is. We seasonal and recreational folks got stuck for a good chunk of $80 million in school construction for St Louis County district (the long skinny one from Cotton to Orr that has all the stuff nobody else wanted) to "save money".

[harvey lee]

I have hunted on land that got sold and then posted, that's the choice of the current landowner, just maybe they purchased the land for themselves to enjoy, I thought that was ok but I guess some may look at that differently.

As I have stated before, continue to do as one pleases when it comes to private land and soon all will have to trespass, one cannot continue to upset the landowners anymore. Maybe we could look at how well that kind of thinking has worked in the past 20 years, simply more land will get posted, thats just fact from prior years of trespassing.

Back to the ethics I guess, maybe only a few have that anymore at all.

[harvey lee]

"The old "what's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable". Outsiders may be paying the taxes but they are also making the property unaffordable for locals and sometimes acting like jerkbaits. And some of the locals resent all of those things. Having a "rich cake eating" 612'er post a piece of land that they have been hunting for years can be sort of irritating."

I guess this must be like a liberal/conservative issue where neither party is going to agree with the other. It is irritating to me when my 14 year old daughter and wife are out at the shed getting some wood and some 218'er blasts a deer in my unaffordable driveway 200 feet from them. But after all his grandpa homesteaded 160 acres in 1903 and when his girlfriend is ahead of me at the grocery store she's using a WIC card. Nice seeing them at the bar on Friday's at 3pm too. Thank God I don't have one of the Million dollar cabins on the lake, I'd really be asking for it then.

If the price paid for the piece of land was high, one alone cannot drive the price up, that's 2 or more.

One works hard and saves and buys a piece of ground for the asking price, don't see how the 612er caused that all on his own. If the landowner then drive sup in a shiny new pick up, does that mean he is a wealthy 612er?

I believe it is down to jealousy of the other who purchased the land so we can hate him just for that.

So now, from what I read, you can judge all as they are from a metro area? WOW.

land sells for prices I could have never dreamed of but it took more than a few to drive that price up. If they are willing to pay what it takes to get a section of woods and can afford it, more power to them.

[smsmith]

So now, from what I read, you can judge all as they are from a metro area?

Not sure if I'm understanding what you're saying here...but if you're saying the locals can pick out a metro person....then yes...that's pretty much true. Not by their pick ups so much (though if its really nice and shiny and on a gravel road...yep...not a local), more so by their clothes, mannerisms, and speech.

[BobT]

here is my thought any time I see or hear of trespassing:

You and three buddies decide to buy 200 acres of hunting land somewhere. You spend $200,000 and build a little hunting shack and make a few plots and build some stands for deer hunting. You spend a lot of money, time, and effort for your new little piece of heaven. You decide not to hunt it after Oct 15 for grouse to let the deer settle down. You have it posted properly by the way. Friday of opener you get up there at noon and unpack all you gear for deer season #1. Your own little honey hole. At 3pm you hear some shots and go out on your land and three guys with 2 dogs are grouse hunting on your land. They tell you "we always hunted it when the Johnson's owned it, thought it would still be okay since we hadn't seen anyone up here since Mid October." You now are depressed, mad, and wondering why you spent $200,000 so you could have your own hunting land.

Don't buzz kill others and don't trespass.

In this scenario you say the land was properly posted. Those grouse hunters would be clearly in the wrong and their story was hogwash.