Feeding deer??

[BuckSutherland]

I do a little feeding at home in my back yard to help pass time in winter. I am not doing anything major. Just a little taste every now and then.

I am concerned about the deer near my land in N Cass county. Is it a good idea to feed them or is a guy better off to leave them. I have 10k bushels of cheap corn in the bins and could surely spare some if it meant saving a few. I dont want them to herd up and become dependent though, especially if there is so many that they eat all the natural food in the area or get each other sick. Thoughts??

It didnt seem like there was that much food in the area for them to eat. That dry summer hurt a little and now all this snow.

Gonna try to do some major habitat improvement for them next year.

[jentz]

Congregating them in a small area can spread disease.I also feed deer when the late winter is hard.I do alfalfa bales and only 1/4 bale at a time,small square bales.Get 10 to 22 deer.I leave apples on the 3 trees also.So before the bales are put out they have been here.Corn??Try to google corn for wild deer feed.I think I have read its hard to digest and supplies no or little nutrition?? But I may be wrong?Check it out before you use it as survival feed.In hard winters I also do Pheasant feeders,That corn is supplied by PF through the local DNR.

[Musky Buck]

If there was no nutrition in corn then deer are really stupid lol. When we feed it's way way too early to tell but we've had 150+ congregated in 1 area with 0 disease, they were gonna die from starvation if we didn't so disease we weren't worried about, the DNR was helping us by supplying those alfalfa pellets that they didn't really care for, we'd put down a slice of hay and pellets on top and they'd rip that hay out and eat it first for sure, they like greens and corn alone is not the answer, that would be tough on them but they browse and get roughage etc my uncles for 50 years have supplied corn only and we're waiting on disease # 1 there they are smart enough to avoid not browsing or putting some grasses,cedars,etc in their gut with that corn, but for now the deer are very fat so there's no worries at all, we'll see how it all plays out, spring is when they're really in a weakened state or if snow depths just get unbearable with long periods of corn, I'd say feed them hay overall, digests well and don't just corn it like my uncles although they check there feeding sights every other day they're retired, have the time and money and will see it to the end of april if necessary, don't start em and stop on em.

[BuckSutherland]

I only usually get up there once or twice a winter so that really blows.

I wish I could get my hands on some nice alfalfa. That stuff is like crack to them.

That is what I used to feed them behind the house. I would put a little out each night and make different stations for them so they would all have their own area.

There is almost zero alfalfa left in the area. Especially since there was such a big winter kill SE of here last year. Then there is the logistics of getting it out there. Whatever I do it is just a dump and leave thing.

[DonBo]

If you've got some woods up there and plan on doing some habitat improvement anyway, I'd think about cutting some of these trees down when/if the deer start to show some stress. The tops will keep them well fed for quite a while.

[Musky Buck]

Agree Donbo, we used to drop a few poplars and the deer love that. The part I don't like for now is there is quite a hard crust in my area making digging to the ground tougher, pheasants and turkeys to were really scratching hard yesterday afternoon, but get through this cold snap and maybe a breather will come, as long as we don't get snow a foot at a go would be huge. My plan, pull trailcams, stay out of their grounds, no shed hunting unless winter moderates, work on my stands when the coast is clear, simply add 0 pressure or stress to them if winter seems difficult for the deer and since I own wintering ground, we're staying away. But it's way way early to worry about it, keep it in mind for sure, but it's early.

[mntatonka]

don't forget that there's a feeding ban in two parts of Minnesota, the CWD and TB areas. Be sure to check that you're not in those areas before putting out feed of any type.

[PurpleFloyd]

This is going to be a long, hard winter.

I say instead of dumping one big pile, make several piles scattered out so as not to concentrate whatever is feeding there and to make sure one dominant thing doesn't hijack the pile.

[MahtowaDave]

I recently spent two days buzz sawing trails thru my land following the rifle season. The trail cams I retrieved today revealed that the deer were using those downed poplars heavily already, that is, until the last hours of the storm covered the cams completely! Yeah....we got snow guys! After digging them out, I found that out. Some of the freshly downed trees were tore to shreds from both hares and deer. I did not take down the trees to feed deer, but if it helps them out, great. Deer beds were isolated to one area, a cedar swamp. It was the only area I could have walked through without snowshoes. I noticed it was warmer in there too. Only two pairs of wolf tracks were seen and that was on a well worn snowmobile path in the area, not where the deer were, thankfully.

[harvey lee]

Purple floyd made a great suggestion in regards to feeding in numerous locations.

One year I was going to buy 30 big round hay bales and put some in the fields where we hunt. I talked to the locasl CO and he said if I were to start to feed them, do not quit until spring as they will get so dependent, they could die if one stopped feeding.

The other big concern he had was that he suggessted to feed in many different locations in the same field. He said if we put one big bale out, in our area that could attrack 100 deer or more. he said with one bale, some of the deer will never leave that direct area and they would also not let many others feed there at any other time, the reason for numerous locations.

he said North Dakota does not like to see people feeding deer as they either stop feeding them after a month or two as they did not realize what it could cost and the other big factor was they feed in only one spot. he said if they do it correctly, it can help the deer but most people do more harm than good the way they go about it.

[harvey lee]

Purple floyd made a great suggestion in regards to feeding in numerous locations.

One year I was going to buy 30 big round hay bales and put some in the fields where we hunt. I talked to the locasl CO and he said if I were to start to feed them, do not quit until spring as they will get so dependent, they could die if one stopped feeding.

The other big concern he had was that he suggessted to feed in many different locations in the same field. He said if we put one big bale out, in our area that could attrack 100 deer or more. he said with one bale, some of the deer will never leave that direct area and they would also not let many others feed there at any other time, the reason for numerous locations.

he said North Dakota does not like to see people feeding deer as they either stop feeding them after a month or two as they did not realize what it could cost and the other big factor was they feed in only one spot. he said if they do it correctly, it can help the deer but most people do more harm than good the way they go about it.

[lakevet]

Never fed deer, never will. They don't need it in my opinion. What they need is great habitat, which takes time (can we say years?), patience and foresight. They are not a bunch of steers in a feedlot. Deer herd will survive and rebound even if the winter does actually turn out to be the worse ever recorded.

We planted more cedar again this spring. Had ordered trees before we found out it was going to be a long winter (anyone else besides us ice fish the first week in May 2013?) Had to fence it to prevent deer from wiping it out. Got some good growth on it already this year. Had planted some after the bad winters of the mid 90's. Lots of hard red maple saplings to browse and aspen shoots from logging activity and normal regeneration that is available unless snow gets 6 feet deep, balsam/spruce for thermal cover in addition to the cedar we are regenerating. All but the cedar is natural habitat managed by logging. The deer are bedding now under the cedar planted in the 90's. Time spent this winter on helping deer survive is zero. Unless wolves are severe we always have deer wintering in our woods. Found one wolf killed deer under the cedars last weekend. Still decent number of deer in area, more than it has been for 4 years.

Northern white cedar is the only winter browse that deer can actually gain weight on over winter. Cedar regeneration is a pain because of browse pressure. We are planting it cause it has never come back after my ancestors cut the cedar off about 100 years ago. Reason why no cedar is deer wipe out any regeneration. Lack of cedar regeneration is a big winter habitat problem across all the great lake states.

Any larger stand of evergreens, especially in swamps, provides thermal cover which is critical. Also snow depth is less under evergreen trees increasing ability to avoid wolves and decrease energy burned to move around. Hay and corn don't help in these areas, are costly for most, are labor intensive, and practically work only if you live in the area or hire someone to do it. Dropped trees is an option and can be integrated into a woodland stewardship plan, thinning a stand of timber to increase growth, cull poor quality trees with defects that decrease timber value, etc.

lakevet

[candiru]

Well said lakevet. Don't feed corn.

http://www.examiner.com/article/supplemental-deer-feeding-may-do-more-harm-than-good

With the hard-crusted snow we have on the ground, wildlife have a tough time finding food. Deer and turkey especially are having trouble finding suitable forage. As such, many well-meaning folks are putting out bagged corn or grain for both species. While commendable as it appears, their graciousness is only harming the species, deer in particular.

According to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, supplemental feeding of deer in the winter is the best way to kill a large number of deer in a small area in a short time. The problem, says Gerald Feaser, PGC information officer, is that a deer’s diet cannot be rapidly changed in winter without damage to its digestive system.

“Deer, says Feaser, have a four compartment stomach that relies on microbes for digestion. The types of microbes change gradually in early winter to digest woody browse and again in spring to digest green vegetation.”

Illnesses such as acidosis and enterotoxemia often result when the winter diet is suddenly switched to simpler, more digestible carbs like corn or grain. Enterotoxemia occurs when these carbs cause bacteria to bloom in the deer’s digestive system. This bacteria is beneficial during normal feeding events, but too much releases a neutrotoxin that is absorbed into the blood which results in death, as explained in a PGC booklet.

A prime example of this was explained to my friends Tom and Betty Lou Fegely, who reside outside Pennsville in Northampton County. What appeared to be a dying button buck that stayed close to their house, necessitated a call to Brad Krieder, WCO for Northampton County. After addressing the visibly infected yearling that was apparently wounded during the hunting season, Krieder recalled being summoned to a home to pick up a young dead deer that was lying atop a corn pile.

This goes to explain that it takes a deer time and energy to convert to new microorganisms, like that found in bag corn and grain. During that time it uses precious fat reserves that could have been spared if the deer had fed continually on natural winter browse, says the PGC.

The PGC points to studies that have shown that deer can die from feeding on highly digestible, high energy, low fiber feed such as corn in winter. This rapid exposure to a concentrated grain diet can cause a fatal disruption of the animal’s acid base balance. Deer that survive the immediate effects of “grain overload,” often die in the days or weeks that follow, due to secondary complications of the disease.

Evidently this is what happened to the deer Krieder found atop the corn pile. And young deer are more susceptible (and are the first to die) since they are the last ones to feed after the larger, older, stronger deer eat first.

Another point the PGC makes is that supplemental feeding sometimes congregates deer in unnatural densities. Luring large numbers of deer in a small area could create a risk for spreading CWD, tuberculosis - and in turkeys - that feed on “deer corn.”

The photo accompanying this column shows how deer have eaten the ivy within their reach from this front yard tree. They’ve also dined on azaleas within the same Northampton County yard.

The PGC concludes that supplemental deer feeding during hard winter months increases the winter death rate by 25-42 percent. They recommend planting certain trees, bushes and maintaining autumn food plots instead. That, and felling firewood trees in late winter puts deciduous tree-tops where deer can reach them.

To read more on the subject check “Winter Feeding of Deer and Turkey,” a 26-page document available on the PGC’s HSOforum www.pgc.state.pa.us. Click on “Wildlife” on the left, then scroll down to the “Wildlife Reference Guides” section to view the digital booklet.

[candiru]

I may also drop a few trees in the winter and let the deer browse on them. It also helps keep my woods young.

Feeding hay to deer: http://www.biggamehunt.net/news/iowa-sends-out-reminder-do-not-feed-deer

Iowa Sends Out Reminder - Do Not Feed Deer

By: Iowa Dept. of Natural Resources

Posted on: 02/14/10

Whenever we receive an abnormally severe winter --- and I'm pretty sure this one qualifies --- Iowa outdoor enthusiasts become acutely aware of wildlife's daily struggle for survival. Tens of thousands of us respond to the plight each winter with the installation and maintenance of backyard bird feeders.

Feeding winter wildlife is a noble endeavor, but only if done correctly. Doing it wrong can have dire consequences and, in some cases, can even lead to the deaths of the very creatures we attempt to aid.

Some of the most dramatic examples occur when people begin feeding deer. This practice is generally limited to the harshest of winters when foraging deer are highly visible and often move into highly populated residential areas in search of food such as shrubbery or the "small grains" found at backyard bird feeders.

Many people, me included, enjoy having white-tails visit their property. But since deer have cloven hooves and big brown eyes, just like Elsie the cow, many folks automatically assume that adding a bale or two of hay to their backyard feeding program might be a good idea. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

According to DNR Wildlife [Deer] Biologist, Tom Litchfield, there are basically two types of hay, and neither should be used to feed wintering deer.

"Grass hay is the worst," says Litchfield. "A deer cannot digest grass fast enough to keep itself alive. It is a rumen volume thing, which is why deer are browsers (twigs and shrubs) and not grazers.

"Alfalfa hay --- a legume --- is more digestible for deer, although it's mainly just the leaves that deer select for," adds Litchfield. "But if an already stressed deer eats a large quantity of alfalfa --- especially if that deer is already losing condition and has eaten very little alfalfa in recent weeks --- it will usually be dead within 24 to 48 hours, sometimes sooner. It's that dramatic."

The reason, says Litchfield, is because naturally occurring bacteria in a deer's rumen [stomach] does most of the work associated with digestion. If a deer hasn't eaten much alfalfa recently, the rumen flora [bacteria] needed to digest that material are at very low levels. If a hungry deer suddenly finds alfalfa hay at someone's backyard feeding station and tanks up, it then has a stomach full of food it cannot digest. The end result is that the deer dies with a full stomach.

"This same scenario is true with most nutritious feeds if the deer is stressed and then suddenly comes upon an abundance of feed that it has not been eating recently," says Litchfield. "Deer are almost never single item feeders by choice, they like a variety and "famine to feast" where they can suddenly fill up on a single item is not a natural occurrence for herbivores."

Providing stressed deer herds with a sudden supply of hay is simply a case of killing them with kindness.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I don't feed the deer but for those of you who do I have one request.

Please don't put out the feed whether it be corn or hay or whatever, right next to the road. There are a few fellas that feed deer around my place. They stop their trucks, chuck out a couple hay bales, and drive away. Many of the deer they're trying to save end up as road pizza.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Another reason not to feed is it changes deer. They are short lived animals. A doe changes here winter yarding habit because deer feed is present and then teaches this to her fawns who never learn to go to a deer yard. All the browse around the deer feeding is over browsed every year creating an even bigger problem. Some folks just can't see the bigger picture or don't care aside from their little enjoyment of seeing a deer or two.

[B. Amish]

feeding deer can cause more harm than good. you can actually end up killing them.

[laker1]

A repeat of the message above advice.

Whatever you do don't feed next to a highway,many people put feed out by their house,next to a major road and have car-deer collisions frequently. With potential of people,beside deer getting killed.

One person had like 6 deer killed in front of his place,3 at one time. He was finally approached by neighbors and the area Conservation Officer to quit feeding. You were creating a hazard and knowingly could become liable for your actions.

The individual quit feeding.

[Stevoreno]

Thanks all. Very informative and I now plan on going out late winter and thining out some aspen. I assume birch and maple would be readily consumed also.

Ulness be get the big thaw...seems like weather is getting crazier every year.

[BuckSutherland]

Good info here. I will plan on dropping some trees this winter and not feeding hay or corn to them. I might just do a couple handfuls of acorns(I have a couple 5 gallon pails) in front of the cameras to try and monitor their health. And yes the road thing severely irritates me as well. Couple years ago the neighbor was feeding birds. Well at night the deer would come in under the feeder, which was right under the yard light and cleanup. None of us live up there so as soon as we left the poaching started. Couple different drag paths and blood trails from the feeder to the road (100ft and remote).

My property was select cut 3 winters ago and has usually been a sanctuary in the winter. Seems like way less available food out there this year than last year. Also have some neighborhood dogs that have been running them very hard. Season starts for them in a couple weeks. GW pretty much has his hands tied unless he sees it, and owners refuse to do anything about it.

[Barbelboy]

Quote:

Also have some neighborhood dogs that have been running them very hard. Season starts for them in a couple weeks. GW pretty much has his hands tied unless he sees it, and owners refuse to do anything about it.

That is the best line I've read in some time. I especially like the collared ones. You can call in and find out when/where they were collared.

And before anybody gets too sensitive, remember. As a pet owner it is YOUR responsibility to control them and to not be too sensitive when your animal(s) create problems which are addressed by other people in a legal manner which you may not agree with.

I highlighted the legal part so the inevitable internet police have less to complain about.

Back to the feeding. I've tried a variety of supplemental feeding methods over the years. I've found that habitat management is the most effective. Difficult, time intensive, but worth it.

[Black_Bay]

I don't think it was mentioned but feeding deer also ends up feeding wolves too. Back in the late 90's when we had very nasty winters, guys were packing down nice trails getting to yarding areas to feed the deer. Well the wolves found that the trails made it nice and easy to stay fat and sassy all winter long.

[slimngrizzly]

I feed 3rd cutting round bales. Best bang for your buck! High protein and they last.