Lowering our Low Expectations

[Gordie]

Harvest numbers also drop due to the rules that we must follow, such as either choice zones or lottery areas. when you go from a intensive harvest area then it turns into a lottery zone your numbers are going to drop.

The area I hunt is a either choice that was intensive that went to management and now is either choice and if it goes to a lottery zone those deer harvest numbers for that area will change one again.

I do not hold great stock in the numbers that are posted as a basis to predict the outcome of the hunting other than how many were taken in a given year.

[harvey lee]

I never even look at the harvest numbers for any location or state I hunt.

I do my homework, do some scouting and off I go.

It has worked for me for years both archery hunting and rifle or slug gun hunting.

I do not remember the last time I went deer hunting in any state and did not fill my tag no matter what the weapon of choice was.

I go out, enjoy the outdoor's and if I have done my scouting, I typically harvest the deer I am looking for.

2 years ago I started to hunt Mn again and the land I use to hunt was all taken so, I had to go out and find some new land. Found a little 5 acres pice of woods and the last 2 years, filled my archery tag both years. Yes, I drove some miles and talked with alot of landowners as I got many no, you cannot hunt here.

First year for my grandaughter for the youth season. The area I live dsoes not have a open area so I went to another area and boy, did I have to talk to alot of farmers and landowners to get permission to hunt.

Finally I found a 10 acre piece and the farmer let me know where they hunt the wood's during the gun season and where thier double stasnds were and said we could use those.

Well, day 2 of our yoth season hunt, Taylor shot an 8 pt buck.

I took a photo of the deer, added a gift certificate to the envelope and we took a trip to the landowner and thank him.

Point of my post, in most areas, with enough leg work and talking, one can find good pieces of ground to hunt. Yes, it may not happen the first day but those landowners are out there if you knock on the right amount of doors.

[archerystud]

The youth recruitment numbers are hard to compare to the past. I played football and hockey and had no prob doing archery and gun hunting. My son only plays hockey and I only allow him to gun hunt. Reason being is hockey alone chews up all of his weekends.

[Musky Buck]

Add new spots is the answer, your expectations will be higher, whether you score or not it reinvigorates your faith, my zone 1 spots the 1st 9 days of gun season go unhunted, if I fail in zone 2 I have backup in zone 1. Like Frosty on here, we were sharing a nice 12 pointer last year on camera, he got him, I left the area immediately and focused my efforts elsewhere and was rewarded with a 8 pointer that dressed at 195. Took some effort to maintain 9 stands, but it gives me more faith than scenting up your main stand day after day after day, I'd have very low expectations after the opener if I had 1 spot, with medium pressure in the area, you may not be seeing much because they have you pegged as well as others in the area and they will search out areas free of human scent or what they deem as a danger to them, rut or not. They always get fairly nocturnal and we know we need a hot doe or a weather change to have a chance, any moment could be a chance but are you there? My expectations are high for next year seeing so many yearling bucks and 2.5 year olds this year and hearing very little shooting. Now for a decent winter, they're in good shape heading into it. Good luck to all and maybe next season it's your turn. My reli's last year 1 deer, there neighbors 9. This year my reli's 10 deer, the neighbors 1, go figure that out.

[wally243]

Keep shooting them does!!!! LOL Heck 8 point bucks can create a fawn on its own now days. I also love the guys who are for APR, but hunt on someone else's land. If your dream comes true you will be sitting at home watching tv while a guy from Minneapolis is hunting your tree stand. I am all for APR by the way. The number of does has to be the number one priority in any plan for a deer heard I would think??? The habitat is what it is you can't change that nor should you since it is an owners right to do what he wishes with his land. So that being said the only thing we can control is to stay off the trigger period. This means hunting without killing a deer every year. The APR guy in western Minnesota that shoots 130" buck and his buddy shoots a doe is his own worst enemy. Just saying. The neighbor that shot the 4 point is way better off for everyone involved. Stay off trigger period. Otherwise hope a fork comes by before a 2.5 year old 8!!!!!

Thanks

[SmellEsox]

Yeah, its good to have multiple spots, but it is a shame that we have so much awesome deer habitat w/ few deer in it.

[Bear55]

I do kind of wonder if those boom years of the early 2000's spoiled us a bit. You could pretty much shoot a deer anywhere back then, now it takes a little more hard work/skill to be consistent. Have to admit I didn't know what scouting was growing up, the old man just walked in the woods and picked a spot. That was your one and only stand for the rest of your life for the better or worse. Glad I decided to learn a little on my own and spend a lot more time in the woods.

Now if you are talking more mature buck hunting well that is a whole new ballgame. They don't live everywhere and even someone with hundreds of acres might be out of luck. You either need to be in an area that holds a lot of them because the pressure is low or most hunters in the area let them go. Your other option is to grow them on your land by passing them but this isn't always easy, even if you own a section that buck will spend a lot of time off your land and you need to catch him during shooting hours. The last and most difficult option is to actually go after them on their terms, which often means searching/scouting a ton of land year in and year out to find a nice buck or two. I have some nice chunks of public land by my home, problem is those deer are highly pressured so there sits a couple thousand acres that I don't even bother hunting because it rarely holds large deer. If you are hunting the same old ground year after year and never see anything big, don't blame the dnr blame yourself for hunting the same place year after year.

[Musky Buck]

I agree smell it's why I'm adding deer stand 10 11 and 12 this winter, one of the dozen should produce. I'm adding them because of pressure from other hunters, the varying degree of where the deer are each November, it keeps me ahead of the game, well at least not behind the game. I'm also only after larger bucks, if I was content with any deer 2 stands would do. Mature bucks in my area are very good at avoiding boxes on stilts and wide shooting lanes, they've been around the block a time or two, it's why I have 0 of them, it's why buck number 29 went down this year. Completely agree with you Bear55, you bet people got spoiled big time, everyones poll was full of deer, then zone 4 went to 2 adding days, all can musket hunt, timberwolves moved in, archery hunting exploded in the area, farmers plowed everything black during the worst winter of the last 5, winters are a dump shoot and wallah, we have lower deer numbers why is anyone surprised in old zone 4 at least my area of it, entire wintering herds in places no longer exist, knew 1 of my areas was real thin on deer when I couldn't find a shed or a track even in a swamp that held a wintering herd for the 40+ years I've been alive. It only takes the 1 right deer to make your season. I'm no dummy I hunt alone 75% of the time, the more smell pressure I feel lessens my odds at the mature buck. Now I'm ramping up for next year when most have turkey and dressing on their minds I'm fixing, clearing, analyzing what I missed during season so next fall it's game time and I'm ready. I do want to up my odds the best I can to hunt for the biggest narliest buck in the places I hunt. Some years the deer just win out.

[PurpleFloyd]

How many hunters in MN know what a browse line is?

Heck, lots of posters on this forum son't know what pleonasm is either but that doesn't stop them from posting on the forum again.

[Gordie]

If everyone shot a deer then what would happen? Your expectation would be at its lowest!

[nonteepical]

If you are hunting the same old ground year after year and never see anything big, don't blame the dnr blame yourself for hunting the same place year after year.

I do everything i can on my 100 acres of land to benefit wildlife,deer in particular, so when the DNR puts out to many tags for years, and uneducated (stupid)hunters kill as many deer that the DNR allows (when the deer population dosen't justify the tags) so they can "fill out", your saying I'm to blame, and i should sell my property and scout for new land and hope the neighbors are conservation minded?

The DNR needs new management practices, they don't have a clue how many deer there are, they go off of 5-10 year old population surveys and try to make a educated guess from there, they need to listen to the hunters more (beyond sending an email), every district should have public input meetings yearly, deer, ducks,birds and fish open subject matter pertaining to that district managers area. Bucks and does need to be managed, you can't have no doe permits in an area, and have the deer harvest bucks only and not manage the bucks being killed, especially when we hunt the peak of the rut.

[TruthWalleyes]

ever try hunting somewhere else?

[nonteepical]

It went over your head. you shouldn't have to travel all over the state year after year looking for good hunting and waiting for the deer herd to improve, especially when you buy hunting property.thats most hunters dream is to have their own land to hunt.

I hunted zone 1, 1000's of public land acres for 30+ years and when you aren't seeing deer, or sign of a nice buck you have the luxury of moving around, when you are on a hundred acres with property lines and neighbors, your limited, and at the mercy of the DNR's deer management and neighbors hunting practices of always trying to take the maximum deer they can.

[PurpleFloyd]

It went over your head.

I hunted zone 1, 1000's of public land acres for 30+ years and when you aren't seeing deer, or sign of a nice buck you have the luxury of moving around, when you are on a hundred acres with property lines and neighbors, your limited, and at the mercy of the DNR's deer management and neighbors hunting practices of always trying to take the maximum deer they can.

Please do me a favor and explain the uneducated, stupid hunter comment.

[PurpleFloyd]

when you are on a hundred acres with property lines and neighbors, your limited, and at the mercy of the DNR's deer management and neighbors hunting practices of always trying to take the maximum deer they can.

I hate to break it to you but this is America and I find the idea that you want to have the government dictate what other people do on their property to be rather offensive. I just hope that you never have a PETA member buy a plot next to you and try to dictate that you don't hunt at all on your 100 because they don't have the same beliefs as you do.

[nonteepical]

They think because a tag is available that it's supposed to be filled so they can have the maximum amount of deer they can even if the deer numbers don't justify it. I hunt the southern border of 240 it's managed this year because the northern part, 40 miles away, has a higher population, the other side of the road of my property is 213 wich is HC, in other words their aren't many deer in this area of 240 to justify a managed tag, it's been low the past 5-6 years but because a tag is available uneducated (maybe i should call them casual) hunters will try to fill those tags with every deer that wonders by, making the deer recovery slower. their choices affects all the landowners in the immediate area.

[nonteepical]

So you see no difference in people trying to ban hunting all together vs. managing a recource. thats uneducated hunter mentality right there.

[flipper]

I think you need to take a break from hunting if it puts you in such a bad mood. Sort of defeats the purpose, eh? An educated person might conclude that there is much more to hunting than scoring that big rack or even making a kill for that matter.

[Gordie]

Because you don't shoot a deer on Your 100 acres(property) that there is know deer left in the state or the DNR should some how mange deer so that you get all the deer.

that's land owner mentality right there.

You do what ever you have to get deer/wildlife into your property and if it doesn't happen then everyone else hears the little boy that is crying wolf.

I use to have 40 acres of property solely for deer hunting up around the Hackensack area and also hunted state land near by. I shot a lot of deer off my property and I didn't try and force the issue with trying to get wildlife to it, if the deer were not present it was time to find state land that did.

Its a tough situation to own a chunk of land and not be able to enjoy it like you planned, but it does happen.

Take for instance if you owned a cabin on a lake and the fishing was great but then something happened and the fishing was at its worst. would you go to another lake to fish or float around searching for fish that you know are not there?

I know its maybe a bad analogy ,but its really not a bad analogy.

BTW when the DNR imposed those intensive limits that you talk of how many tags did you fill?

I have heard other guys from different areas that complain about this too, and they were stacking the deer in the freezer during those seasons too.

[nonteepical]

LOL! if it was all about the kill we wouldn'nt be passing deer, including passing in hopes it may make it through the season(buck or doe)so there's some for next year, all because there is a group of hunters that think because it's a deer it has to be dead.

[Scott K]

They think because a tag is available that it's supposed to be filled so they can have the maximum amount of deer they can even if the deer numbers don't justify it. I hunt the southern border of 240 it's managed this year because the northern part, 40 miles away, has a higher population, the other side of the road of my property is 213 wich is HC, in other words their aren't many deer in this area of 240 to justify a managed tag, it's been low the past 5-6 years but because a tag is available uneducated (maybe i should call them casual) hunters will try to fill those tags with every deer that wonders by, making the deer recovery slower. their choices affects all the landowners in the immediate area.

How dare them legal hunters shoot them deer. They should leave them alone, and dont shoot them, so their racks can grow big, and you can shoot them.

And you wonder why APR guys have a bad name? When you simply display it is all about "me" and what I want. How dare them other hunters legally take a deer, when that will prevent "you" from getting your trophy deer. Good grief

[nonteepical]

OH and I have no problem with people filling tags if the numbers support it, but you have to survey your area and make a detertmination if it can support it, if it can fine,if not tweak it, don't go by the DNR.

[nonteepical]

I never once in the post you highlighted mentioned APR,trophy or buck.It's over your head to.

[Scott K]

Not over my head. I own land, I do everything I can legally to get deer on to my land. Some years my crew does very well, some years my party gets a couple smaller deer. But then I drive past the neighbors, and they all have several deer hanging, from small ones, to big ones.

And not one time, have I thought the neighbors were wrongfully shooting deer, or shooting more then they should. In fact, when I see several hanging in their posts, it makes me feel good, that there is still a lot of deer in the area. They just didnt happen to walk past my party when out in the woods. Now if my party didnt see much for deer, and none of the neighbors did either, then I would be concerned. But if the neighbors are getting theirs, and I am not, that tells me I need to improve my land so the deer will want to hang out in my land more.

[Wanderer]

I hate to break it to you but this is America and I find the idea that you want to have the government dictate what other people do on their property to be rather offensive.

Then you must be offended ALL OVER the place. Just think about how much the government dictates what we do with our property right down to building codes, DOH well cerifications, and wetland management just to throw out a few across a broad spectrum of control. Wow.

Now add: Wild game does not belong to the property owner - game is a public resource.

I get to go on my first gun hunt for the year this weekend back to the land I've been bowhunting this fall. It used to be one of those places where you just had to be awake to see a deer. Yes, the boom days that once were are now over. The news this year is one group in the valley has taken on the "Fill every tag for every legal hunter that we can fit on the land" mentality and now people aren't seeing much for deer anymore. One group of three spent the entire week of the A season hunting to see three deer and harvest two. The neighboring landowner took his Grandson out and got skunked. Simply unheard of. I have my two tags but will feel fortuate to fill one and am REALLY thinking about not taking another doe from whats left of the herd.

YES! We've already started looking for new land in the area to hunt rather than stick it out on the same property we've been happy with for 20 years. Maybe we find something better; maybe its yours?

The "I want" card is being played by EVERYONE, not just the APR crowd.

Good luck Gents.