Stupified and Flabbergasted!!

[Ufatz]

My supe hot wife has a bright red Chevy Aveo, 2005. It is a much maligned and ridiculed little car. All it has done for us is run every day, at 32-34 mpg, summer and winter, without a problem. But!

Check engine icon pops on up on dash. I take Aveo to loca dealer. Shop boss comes back and says "Computer say it OX2 sensor. Part is $345 and with labor the total will be $530." I turn up down my pacemaker, stagger back three feet and grab a passing blonde to stay on my feet. She not much like it, but it worked. I mumble something and stumble out of the place.

I go home. Search finds the part for me at prices ranging from $45-$65 and it is OEM stuff. I order one and have it on my desk at the moment. I will find some little shop near Fergus Falls to put it in since I can get to FFM easiest.

But can you guys imagne this repair quote!! I suspect I will not return there, and we have THREE GM vehicles around the place.

[Ufatz]

You mean to tell me nobody has a reaction to the price quoted me for this little job? Okay...everybody thinks it's reasonable then? Holy Moly....maybe I really AM out of touch because it seems preposterous to me.

[TruthWalleyes]

My supe hot wife

Pictures or it didn't happen

[x1957x]

Its not that they dont believe it or think its not to high. THEY ARE ALL IN SHOCK FROM THE GOUGING they wanted to give you!!!!!

[nofishfisherman]

I had the same sensor go out in my car a couple years ago. Don't recall what it cost to get replaced but it was no where near $530.

[LwnmwnMan2]

I didn't respond because it really didn't warrant a response.

It's no different than my business. I want $100 to mow your yard, neighbor kid will mow it for $15.

Everyone has their pricing structure, overhead, etc. You didn't want to pay it, so you moved on and found a cheaper option. End of story.

[Scott K]

This is the way I see it,

The Gm Dealer has Factory parts, not OEM

List price for the O2 sensor from GM I show listing for $396.76

Diagnostic charges of 1.0 hours more then likely were added into the price, chances are that is $100+ per hour

Replacement time for the part is .4 hours

So 1.4 total labor equals $140 at $100 per hour

List price for the GM part, not an aftermarket part, they are not the same! $396

Total without tax $536

[Ufatz]

Okay by golly. Thank goodness I still have all my faculties at my age and am able to say no when things seem beyond reason. Thanks for laying it out there for me. I feel better about it already and know I did the right thing by walking out.

I will post a short note when I have the work done, probably tomorrow.

[Ufatz]

My final report, and I thank all who responded. And yes, I understand I have the right to turn down one price and seek another. Spent many years in business. Many years.

Today I had my $61.00 part installed by a small shop which charged me $73.50 to clear codes and install. Total $134.50

I will continue to do business with the dealership where I buy my cars and trucks. But if they quote me something I consider outrageous I reserve the right to get a second opinion.

So there ya go gang.

[ozzie]

sounds about right on how things go especially in the auto repair business...shopping around can be very benificial at times. Glad you got your problem resolved and saved $400 in the process...now lets hope it works!!! haha

[Scott K]

Not to defend the dealer at all, but the thing that brought the price up that high, was the cost of using factory parts, instead of cheap aftermarket parts, which you may find, will not work very well, and be setting a check engine light anyhow. To me, there are only a few sensors that I wont install with aftermarket, and that is Mass airflow sensor, and an O2 sensor. Maybe you will be lucky and get a good quality cheap one. But I see a lot of issues with the aftermarket O2 sensors.

As for the cost of labor, the shop you brought it to seemed to over charge you on the labor side of things, considering it was a .4hr job, and erasing codes shouldnt have cost you anything at all. So I see that they charged you $73.50 for .4hr labor, that is equivalent to $183.75 an hour labor.

Hopefully the aftermarkey sensor fixed it, or you will need to return, and get the expensive factory O2 sensor anyhow.

[Ufatz]

You're right. You win. I'm a fool.LOL

[Scott K]

I never said you were a fool, and I would always encourage people to shop around, but you need to compare apples to apples here. You are comparing a part Made by GM, to a part, made by, well who knows who, or where it is made by.

For intsance, you want to go out for dinner, you can go to an Applebees, and get a decent steak prepared by someone that knows what they are doing, cost $35, or you can go to McDonalds and get a McRib snadwich for $3, Sure they are both food, and will fill your stomach, but almost guaranteed the Mcrib wont last as long, and you wont be as happy in the long run.

It looks to me that the service department at the dealership gave you a better rate then the shop you brought it too, but the dealer just quoted you the high quality parts, that it was built with. Sure they quoted you list price, and they could have given you a better price, if you would have just asked for one, you never know.

[CAMAN]

I will say I bought a $32 AC Delco O2 sensor for my truck from Am@zon last year and installed it myself, haven't had a single issue with it and even if it does go bad I'd be more than willing to drop another $32 and 15 minutes of my time rather than pay $300 for a so called factory part.

Now if I were paying for someone else to install, I may have went with the factory part as it will probably have a better warranty , but even with that you may still be paying for someone else to replace it if it does go bad.

Just another reason to learn how to turn a wrench from time to time.

[Whoaru99]

It's a little bit different, but not entirely. I've had my fill of aftermarket starters and alternators. I don't care if they come with long warranty, I don't want to replace them every 11 months.

I paid more for the "factory" parts, and it was worth every penny to me. Haven't had to mess with starter or alternator for some years now. YMMV.

[CAMAN]

Yes I agree, if it's a part that is a pain to replace then I will do my research and see if there is a difference between an OEM and factory part. And from there I will try and get the most bang for my buck, either by buying a full priced factory part, an OEM at 1/4 price or somewhere in the middle . But with something that is as easy to replace as a O2 sensor on most vehicles it doesn't pay to go with a $600 part when a $30 one will work just as well and take no more than an hour of your time.

And obviously the factory parts have there faults as well or you wouldn't be replacing it.

[ncesi]

I didn't respond because it really didn't warrant a response.

It's no different than my business. I want $100 to mow your yard, neighbor kid will mow it for $15.

Everyone has their pricing structure, overhead, etc. You didn't want to pay it, so you moved on and found a cheaper option. End of story.

Ok I am a contractor and I come to you home to repair something that is broken, I tell you the part is $50.00 and the book says it will take me 5.6 hours to change it out, for a total of lets say for the sake of argument $900.00. I install the part and leave in 1 hour. Do you feel that I cheated you? The issue at car dealers is that you cannot see what is going on in the back and they do not allow you to see for a reason. A good mechanic is able to do the job in 1 hour and they park your vehicle around back for another hour or two. Or better yet you drop the vehicle off before work and return after work so you have no idea how long it actually took . As a contractor you most likely watch what time I show up and what time I leave. There is no good solution but the implication of gouging is there in both cases. Some car dealers have a reputation of gouging along with some contractors. I happen to agree with the original poster!

[aanderud]

Scott, the fact is your "factory" part has an EXTRA $170 in mark-up -- you yourself could buy it for $227, and the dealer wants $396. THAT is a big part of what drove up the price considerably. The "factory" is making plenty when you buy the part and they then take on an additional $170 on top of that? They're already making a killing on the labor. "Retail" prices should be charged to someone who walks in off the street and asks for a part at the to-go counter, not for someone who comes in and buys the part to have the shop charge outrageous fees to install it. THAT is preposterous.

Add in the fact that his other shop did the work for labor costs of roughly 1/2 the dealership's hourly rate, and you see where the costs of the dealership are going -- almost ALL additional profit, not "better parts".

Furthermore, on top of the $500+ quote, I'd guess that "shop fees" would have added another $30 or so to the price of it had he done it at the dealer. Between tax and all the fees he'd have walked out the door at over $600. Not because it's better, but because they're price gouging.

And, this being a free market, he shopped around and got a better price. Commendable.

[CAMAN]

Aanderud I somewhat agree with your markup complaint, but you have to remember dealerships usually carry a TON of overhead. If you need a part for your car or any vehicle of the make they sell/support they usually have it in stock. The costs involved just to do that have to be astronomical! And the costs involved in keeping mechanics, managers, desk staff, and others required to keep dealerships running get even higher, then factor in the land, building, and other shop supplies required and BOOM you have a $600 O2 sensor I can get for $32.

[Whoaru99]

And obviously the factory parts have there faults as well or you wouldn't be replacing it.

I'm sorta reasonable in my expectations....they did last something on the order of 15 years and 200k miles vs. a tiny fraction of that for the aftermarkets before I got fed up and wrote the check.

Oh, the other one was the blower motor. The original started making noise a few years back so I replaced it. The aftermarket one made more noise than the worn out original. Got a real part from the dealer on that one too and live happily ever after with a quiet blower.

[Scott K]

I am not disagreeing with you about the mark up at all. I believe it is crazy, and a lot of dealers get away with it. But if you try talking them down some, they will. If you want to know about what the dealer is buying the part for, take list, then cut it in half.

[Ufatz]

Okay gentlemen, let's wrap this up. I understand retail markup and profit percentage and labor charges. Have never objected to somebody making a decent living. In the case at hand the car involved is a small and inexpensive import-hand cranked windows yet- and I saw no sense putting one tenth of what I paid for the car into something as simple as that sensor. The sensor is presumably good quality. If it makes it a couple years I'm happy. If it were a part for my Benz it would be right from the dealer, installed by the dealer, and backed by MB. And you wanna know about MB parts and shop time?!! Ha Ha Ha!

In today's world a fella has to watch out for his expenses. Aa I said earlier I will continue to do busines with the dealer because I have other GM trucks/cars.

Then too, I gotta support GM.....because if you'll recall, you and I own a big piece of it!!

So. End of case.

[Snag]

I don't know much about cars, but a code reader, a youtube video and 5 minutes saved me $250 last month to replace a ignition coil. Picked up the part from the dealer.

I'm pretty sure every dealer I have worked with considered part of an hour a full hour of labor on the charges.

I once had a dealer fixing my brand new Jeep that had been in an accident and the seat was twisted off center. I told the manager and he grabbed the seat and tried to give it a twist. I was like [PoorWordUsage] are you serious. They put in a new seat.

I have about 10 more stories like that, but I don't have time. Unless it was under warranty, always got a ridiculous quote.

[Whoaru99]

I have about 10 more stories like that, but I don't have time. Unless it was under warranty, always got a ridiculous quote.

As others have said, running a big fancy business requires money. Quite a lot of it.

If one is able to DIY there is almost always room for savings. Especially so if you put no value on your time and effort.

Frankly, wrenching isn't my preferred hobby these days so I'd rather be fishing, so to speak, than fixing a car, boat, whatever. Not meant at all to dis mechanics, I used to really like that sort of thing but not so much anymore.

[Jaspernuts]

Your lucky they charged you list for the part. Most shop now have a "matrix" and mark parts up over MSRP. Lucky they didnt charge 450 for it. Matrix is just a fancy word for gouging the customer. Its not just the big town dealers either. I know dealers in mankato that have a matrix.