Lack of Respect and Common scence

[WIMN]

I hear what you are saying and agree with your point. I think one of the things making this even a bigger problem, in recent years, is all the leasing of paper company land. It used to be open to everyone and now a few guys lease up big sections of land and post it. I know I lost a lot of area I used to hunt and I am sure many others did as well. Potlatch is the largest private land owner in the United States. When they closed up their land by leasing it made the state, fed, and county land that much more crowded. Many people trying to find a new area after being booted from land they hunted for years. Hopefully these guys find a better spot and leave your crew alone in the future!

I think we need to talk to our local legislators, this is an issue where I hunt, and it is not right that these companies get major tax breaks and then start leasing this land to make extra money. This is promoting the commercialization of hunting and I worry that we will turn out like MS, Texas, and other states in the south where you can only hunt if you own a lot of land or pay to have a lease. Guys down in TX pay thousands of dollars a year just to LEASE a handful of acres. Now, don't get me wrong, if somebody wants to lease land, go ahead... but if you're getting a MEGA TAX BREAK from the government, I think that land should be open to sportsmen! I feel like the state of Minnesota is proud of its rich outdoors history (hunting, fishing, canoeing, etc.), and we should follow the footsteps of our neighbor, Wisconsin, which allows hunting on any property which receives a tax break!

[MUSKY18]

Sounds like a few of you need to save some pennies and buy some land of your very own.....

Just sayin....

.

I'm a single father of two kids. Think I wouldn't love to be able to save some pennies and buy my own land? After paying bills then the kids come into play. Do you know how much it costs to put your kids into sports these days? It aint the good ole days where you sign up to play football, pay 10 bucks and thats all there was to it. Last year my daughter played JO volleyball......that one sport alone cost me $365 bucks. Some day I will be in the position that I can save money and hopefully buy my own piece of property, but until that day, I am forced to hunt public land and have to deal with these kinds of problems. If everyone would just take the time to think and treat each other with some mutual respect, it wouldn't be half bad. Some folks just think that they can do whatever they want because it is public land, and that usually leads to some kind of confrontation. My father always taught me to treat other hunters how you want to be treated..........

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

As I was picking the BB's out of my head... I would be thinking of doing something different... Find a farmers land to hunt on... find some friends with land... something different for sure... what is your life worth?

I personally dont have an issue with deer hunting. We have family land.

I was just pointing out that if I had to hunt public land for deer, I would quit before I would go that route.

I was using my duck hunting experience as an example of why public hunting is not my cup of tea...

[Musky Buck]

There's definitely more types today that would just ruin your hunt vs. even trying to have a decent hunt themselves, they're usually pretty miserable types year round.

[Coach1310]

In response to Todd's original post....

#1- On Public Land you just can't control anything and have to EXPECT everything. We hunt on public land in the Merrifield Area and every year someone is surprised when it gets light out on opening day. We have had many groups come and go.... we just take it for what it is worth and we have been really crowded, but everyone has been cordial(except the guy who had been there for 40 years and blamed everyone else for surrounding him when nobody is within 500 yards)- he doesn't hunt there anymore.

#2- Don't feel entitled. I know you mentioned you have been there for X amount of years and get there early, etc.... but on public it doesn't mean a lot. I don't think it should ever be I have been here longer it is mine, but I know our group works hard to set up away from any other stands and most in our area do the same. Todd this isn't a criticism, just how some people view it

#3- Get what you can out of it. We used to hunt private land until the owner sold it all for big money. We used to have our own spots, better deer and much better odds, but we still have a great time. The hunting is great, but hanging out with old friends, telling old stories and just getting away from the day to day is as important as the deer.

Lastly, a lot of the courtesy and common sense is gone, but I think 50 years ago if as many people were trying to hunt on the limited land we have, you would still have issues like this It is a tough spot. The excuse I hear a lot is " I am so busy I can't worry about everyone else." A sad fact, but I do think for many it is a fact. My oldest is 7 and is a naturally giving person, thankfully, but I am fearful I will have to bring him on public land to hunt as I don't have the "pennies" either to buy my own. I can live with the lack of courtesy..... it is when the lack of common sense turns into DANGER that really gets me.

[gp13581]

[We have 5 in our group and there are 3 in the other group, we camp on the road leading into it. We always get up there early on friday to set up camp, deturing most from hunting there.]

I get what you are saying but your attitude in the fact that you get up there early, make camp on the road leading in to deter others from hunting the area is what bothers me. I hate guys that think they can "reserve" a spot or think that just because they are there, no one else should be there. It's public land. If the guy wants to sit 50' from you, so be it. Not realy respectable but it is what it is. Why should he not hunt where he wants just because you got the day off. We have a guy on the public land we hunt on that has built a permanent stand and then expects no one else to hunt around him. Next year, I'm tearing it down right before the season. People thinking they have "dibs" on land are mistaken.

[monstermoose78]

Let me know if you need help taking it out of the woods?

[Cheetah]

We hunt state land in North Central MN we have hunted this area for the past 50 years along with another group, yes I know it's state land and is open for every one to use but.........

If I had a nickle for every time I heard that line when deer season comes around I'd be buying a new bow every year.

[BLACKJACK]

Hunting public land sucks. Is there any wonder why we're losing hunters?? I hunted public land for years, you'd get to a spot early, and right at daybreak some yahoo would come marching right thru your field of fire. And then you have the people that build/erect stands on public land and claim that spot as "theirs".

Jump over to the Pheasant forum and the discussion on grazing of WPA's. We have thousands of acres of public land that could be enhanced for all wildlife, providing deer hunting opportunities, spreading out hunters, but all they want is prairie.

[FishinFools]

+1

[jay83196]

It should be whomever gets to a spot first that person should be left alone to hunt the area (within reason). And anybody else seeing somebody in a spot should avoid it out of respect and go elsewhere. I don't think people should reserve a spot by putting up a stand and if they are not in it expect people to leave the area alone. But people (some of you making these comments) think its ok to just march around anywhere wrecking somebodys hunt just because its public land(its legal but that doesn't mean its the right thing to do) and we can do whatever we want, that is just ignorant and low class! You can see the orange a mile away if somebody is in a spot be respectful go elsewhere its common sense and being courteous. If your in line at cub its not ok for me to walk in front of you because I can or I have less stuff or paying more $...The real problem is way to many people are selfish and lazy and don't want to work for anything. I'm not that old and I can remember people being so much more respectful 10-20 years ago whats wrong with people just being nice, its a sad deal we have so many people arguing on this it should be just everybody respect each other and get along, life is too short to be so petty.

[Musky Buck]

Blackjack are we really losing hunters, I have never in my 29 years saw so many in my life, anyway how about this for lack of respect, I decide yesterday why sit all day, haven't seen a deer yet in 2 days so I go eat lunch Monday afternoon, dad says they're driving where you hunt at the neighbors, I'm like who what ? I go over there again and you bet, they have 0 permission but now the 80 is totally ruined, I watch a doe and fawn run out and now that I'm there they don't want to shoot, I got "well we wounded 1 this morning" I said stop stop stop, no 1 fired within 2 miles of here this morning do you have silencers on your guns ? Well the farmer said I said stop stop stop, he said ok because he believed your cockamaimae story, so you guys drive as much land as possible around here shooting everything you can and then save the 80 across the road for where you sit, that's over with boys. Drive that 80 if you want, so they purposely kept driving by etc. and the minute I left they put there plan into action, good heavens how often has that went on.

[Todd Caswell]

[We have 5 in our group and there are 3 in the other group, we camp on the road leading into it. We always get up there early on friday to set up camp, deturing most from hunting there.]

I get what you are saying but your attitude in the fact that you get up there early, make camp on the road leading in to deter others from hunting the area is what bothers me. I hate guys that think they can "reserve" a spot or think that just because they are there, no one else should be there. It's public land. If the guy wants to sit 50' from you, so be it. Not realy respectable but it is what it is. Why should he not hunt where he wants just because you got the day off. We have a guy on the public land we hunt on that has built a permanent stand and then expects no one else to hunt around him. Next year, I'm tearing it down right before the season. People thinking they have "dibs" on land are mistaken.

Like I said in my original post it's public land people can do as they wish, I have no desire to own a piece of land just for deer hunting, I really don't get into it that much, waterfowl and retriever are my passion. I continue to do it because of my father and I enjoy eating it, when he's gone I will most likely stick with my muzzle loader, less people, waterfowl season is over and much more of a challange. But for mow I will continue to hunt stae land and keep my cool, I do find a few of your commments interesting.

1. "I hate guys that think they can "reserve" a spot or think that just because they are there, no one else should be there. It's public land. If the guy wants to sit 50' from you, so be it."

We camp there because we hunt there, any one with any commen scence should realise there are people hunting there, and in my commen scence way of thinking " it's taken " If you walk into MCdonalds at noon and all the booths are taken you don't just push some one over and sit down do you? Falls into the same catagory as putting a stand up 50 yards away from some one, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. BY your post your kind of admitting that your one of these guys....

2. Why should he not hunt where he wants just because you got the day off.

Plain and simple he wasn't there first, if you pull up on your favorite crappie hole and there is a wheel house sitting on it do you hook up and move it or move right in on him? Public water isn't it, he had the day off and you didn't, so your way of thinking is "I have just as much right to this spot as you" even though the spot has already been taken.

3. We have a guy on the public land we hunt on that has built a permanent stand and then expects no one else to hunt around him.

Kind of depends what around him means, within sight and interfering with his hunt then yes he has ever right to be [PoorWordUsage] if he gets out to his stand first, and again why would you knowingly put up a stand that you know is going to interfear with another persons hunt, doesn't make any sence to me.

I really believe most people have a clue and treat people like they would want to be treated but like the old saying goes " You can't fix stupid"

[CodyDawg]

I dont hunt public land for deer, but I can empathize with you. I think it was Jay above who nailed it.

Whoever gets there first should be able to hunt it and those that follow should have the ethics to back off. yes, that means that if someone shows up there and camps in your spot on Thursday, that should be your group backing off. But if you are there first, ethically, I believe other people should give you a respectful distance so you can enjoy your hunt without interference.

This isnt so much of a legal argument, it is an ethical argument. If everyone respected others who got there first, it would be a much better hunting world.

The thing that really rubs me wrong is when one group has done everything right, is there first, is ethical and some jerks come in late, with no preparation and ruin it for everyone. That isnt right. it may be legal, but that dont make it right.

Sometimes I think we value getting a deer way too much.

[Buckhunt]

Dont post on here often as I tend to find myself as a reader not a writer on these forums. Never wanted to get caught up in the jumble that are other people's "opinions" but I wanted to chime in on this topic – warning it might get long and this is just my opinion…

I want to pre-face this by starting with a little of my history. I am 33 years old, grew up in a family that did not hunt and became passionate about it in junior high school with the help of some great neighbors/aunts and uncles who would allow me to use their property and/or hunt with them. I spent my first 3 years (ages 12-14) deer hunting by myself with a single shot 12 gauge (under a watchful eye of parents from the house) knowing nothing about hunting other than what I read in Outdoor Life. The vast majority of my hunting experiences at a young age were on public land – something that was provided by others who had the foresight of how valueable this would be. I have since become and will remain very active with several organizations to help maintain/increase the amount of public land in our state.

At about 18, my younger brother began hunting with me and a couple years later my dad started to come with. At 21 we began deer hunting with a family friend in the greater Brainerd area on Potlatch land and 5 years later gave up on that with increased involvement with other hunters which ended at another hunter shooting a fawn that was standing 20 yards from my stand – and yes the fawn was between the two of us so he shot directly at me. The next year we were awarded the Potlatch lease on the parcel that we hunted and have chosen to hunt behind “No Trespassing” signs since.

First I wanted to clear a couple of misconceptions about Potlatch Leases – After years of continued frustration; I wanted to point out that lumber company land is NOT PUBLIC - it is privatly owned land. Large lumber companies can indeed get tax breaks if they enter specific lands in the forestry program (meaning it can not be developed among other rules) AND allow public acess. They are not required to do this and from what I understand (and I will admit it is not everything) not every tract of land owned by a lumber company can be enrolled in this program – zoning, etc. As most people have heard from the recent Moplus stories, the actual tax breaks were limited by law this year causing private land owners – yes lumber companies actually own and pay property taxes on the land - to rethink their policies because believe it or not, they have to pay to carry insurance to cover YOU while you are using THEIR land. With all of that, I have heard every story in the book while asking people to leave our posted land from “You don’t own it you only lease it so you cant kick me off” to “you have to provide the public access” to “oh I didn’t see the 6 No Trespassing signs I drove past to get here.” I try to avoid confrontation as most of these people are armed and politely say that the rules are sometimes confusing but I know the local sheriff and I’m sure when he gets here he can clear everything up for you. As you can guess, most people don’t stick around.

I also want to mention that in the 7 years of having the lease we have received exactly 3 (yes 3) phone calls from people asking to use our land. One was to actually hunt on it that we denied, our group policy is that you have to be a paying member of the lease to hunt on it. The other two were adjacent property owners that were given permission to cross our lease to access their hunting land from an easier direction. In these 7 years, tresapassing tickets out-number people asking permission 22-3. Leasing land was a more economical way for our party to enjoy a safe hunt on land that we minimally use – it isn’t cheap, but I am willing to pay for it for my peace of mind and to avoid some of the frustrations shown in this thread.

The public land debate seems to be getting more heated each year. Unfortunately there is no magic answer. What is the right decision when someone moves in on you – do you deliberatly wreck their hunt stooping to a lower level. Do you get up and move, basically enabeling this behavior. I wish I had the answer but as you all know, it will never exist.

What I do know is that we all CAN get along. Is it frustrating when others disrupt a weekend you have been looking forward to all year – incredibly so. Our lease land is bordered by a lake on the west side and I had a group of duck hunters set up 50 yds from my stand this past Saturday – for some reason they really liked to holler after they missed a duck. Unfortunately they only shot 4 ducks in about 35 shots so the hollering was frequent…..What was the right decision, go yell at them, do something to disrupt their hunt, leave – giving up my best stand and concieding their disrespect by setting up knowingly that close to me. I decided to walk down and talk to them and was dissapointed by the response: “We’re on public water and we can hunt wherever and whenever we want.” Brazen words for the 12 year old in the group to hear his dad reply to me for simply asking if they were going to come back on Sunday. I was happy to have kept my cool, turn the other cheek so to speak, and remind myself that if I can teach 3 others respect while hunting, the disresectful 1 will keep losing ground.

The good news is that only we have the process to do something about it. Get invloved, weather it’s making a stronger attempt to explain to others what hunting ethics area all about, join or start an orgainzation that supports your beliefs, or all the way to contacting elected officials. The only ingnorance is silence. This is an ethics debate, one that will never have clear cut rules or rights and wrongs. We as ethical sportsman have to think beyond what is best for “me” or what is most convienent for “me” to what is best for everyone. Try not to blame others for your bad experiences but think in terms of what more can I do to better the experience for everyone. Trust me I understand the frustrations, but through involvement we can ensure that we and future generations’ coninue to experience some of the things that we tell stories about, are passionate about, and if you’re like me, look forward to for most of the year.

Stay safe

[fr0sty]

Nicely said...

[TruthWalleyes]

I think the OP handled this nicely. Way to keep your cool.

I do hunt public land, typically during muzzy season. I have never "Sat" while deer hunting on public land, I only do a single man push. Basically, get neck deep in cattails and spook the deer out. Lots of deer leave, but it's not too often you can get a good shot at a deer in cattails...But it's better odds than expecting to sit on private land and not see another hunter...I've kicked more deer out of areas that have just been phesant hunted than you'd believe. Like one poster said - 1/2 mile in you won't see many people, 1 mile in it's not likely to see anyone. You can put you paycheck that if 1 mile in is cattails and slough - you'll be the only guy there. Even 1 mile in, it's not likely the hunters walked the toughest stuff - deer know people don't like to struggle walking through cattails/snow/muck/etc... But I do

Get sweaty, get your deer. Or hunt off the edge of the road like the ones with little curtousy and you can expect disappointment.

[shortfatguy]

I am pretty sure in Minnesota land owners are protected from liability if they grant permission to hunt on their land. Unless they are directly negligent ie hitting someone with a vehicle etc.

[mainbutter]

I got shot in the back of the head duck hunting at Carlos Avery.... The guy was 75 yds away, but drew blood from my ear. Pellets sprayed me.

You can bet I'd be on the phone with the local law enforcement immediately after that. If there was any physical damage from being sprayed, particularly blood drawn, you can bet I'd be pressing charges.

[hockeybc69]

20 years ago that it happened.... Back then I just tossed a lot of F bombs, rowed out of my blind and and confronted them in their blind and lit em up with more F bombs....

[TruthWalleyes]

I've been sprayed duck hunting several times...I don't duck hunt anymore. Heck, my old man shot me once pheasant hunting - He was the one who taught the town of Fulda gun safety training... He caught some crp, and luckily i was just fine.

[CodyDawg]

nice post buckhunt. very nice.

one thing i have thought about is when confronting someone with kids is that I think I would point out that they are not being a good example for their kids. Taken a step further, I would ask the kids to discuss this encounter with their Mom and see what she has to say. I would do this in a very respectful manner, but think that if the dad is being a jerk, this might just shut him down. at the very least, he is going to have some 'splaining to do.

[JeffB]

Dont post on here often as I tend to find myself as a reader not a writer on these forums. Never wanted to get caught up in the jumble that are other people's "opinions" but I wanted to chime in on this topic – warning it might get long and this is just my opinion…

I want to pre-face this by starting with a little of my history. I am 33 years old, grew up in a family that did not hunt and became passionate about it in junior high school with the help of some great neighbors/aunts and uncles who would allow me to use their property and/or hunt with them. I spent my first 3 years (ages 12-14) deer hunting by myself with a single shot 12 gauge (under a watchful eye of parents from the house) knowing nothing about hunting other than what I read in Outdoor Life. The vast majority of my hunting experiences at a young age were on public land – something that was provided by others who had the foresight of how valueable this would be. I have since become and will remain very active with several organizations to help maintain/increase the amount of public land in our state.

At about 18, my younger brother began hunting with me and a couple years later my dad started to come with. At 21 we began deer hunting with a family friend in the greater Brainerd area on Potlatch land and 5 years later gave up on that with increased involvement with other hunters which ended at another hunter shooting a fawn that was standing 20 yards from my stand – and yes the fawn was between the two of us so he shot directly at me. The next year we were awarded the Potlatch lease on the parcel that we hunted and have chosen to hunt behind “No Trespassing” signs since.

First I wanted to clear a couple of misconceptions about Potlatch Leases – After years of continued frustration; I wanted to point out that lumber company land is NOT PUBLIC - it is privatly owned land. Large lumber companies can indeed get tax breaks if they enter specific lands in the forestry program (meaning it can not be developed among other rules) AND allow public acess. They are not required to do this and from what I understand (and I will admit it is not everything) not every tract of land owned by a lumber company can be enrolled in this program – zoning, etc. As most people have heard from the recent Moplus stories, the actual tax breaks were limited by law this year causing private land owners – yes lumber companies actually own and pay property taxes on the land - to rethink their policies because believe it or not, they have to pay to carry insurance to cover YOU while you are using THEIR land. With all of that, I have heard every story in the book while asking people to leave our posted land from “You don’t own it you only lease it so you cant kick me off” to “you have to provide the public access” to “oh I didn’t see the 6 No Trespassing signs I drove past to get here.” I try to avoid confrontation as most of these people are armed and politely say that the rules are sometimes confusing but I know the local sheriff and I’m sure when he gets here he can clear everything up for you. As you can guess, most people don’t stick around.

I also want to mention that in the 7 years of having the lease we have received exactly 3 (yes 3) phone calls from people asking to use our land. One was to actually hunt on it that we denied, our group policy is that you have to be a paying member of the lease to hunt on it. The other two were adjacent property owners that were given permission to cross our lease to access their hunting land from an easier direction. In these 7 years, tresapassing tickets out-number people asking permission 22-3. Leasing land was a more economical way for our party to enjoy a safe hunt on land that we minimally use – it isn’t cheap, but I am willing to pay for it for my peace of mind and to avoid some of the frustrations shown in this thread.

The public land debate seems to be getting more heated each year. Unfortunately there is no magic answer. What is the right decision when someone moves in on you – do you deliberatly wreck their hunt stooping to a lower level. Do you get up and move, basically enabeling this behavior. I wish I had the answer but as you all know, it will never exist.

What I do know is that we all CAN get along. Is it frustrating when others disrupt a weekend you have been looking forward to all year – incredibly so. Our lease land is bordered by a lake on the west side and I had a group of duck hunters set up 50 yds from my stand this past Saturday – for some reason they really liked to holler after they missed a duck. Unfortunately they only shot 4 ducks in about 35 shots so the hollering was frequent…..What was the right decision, go yell at them, do something to disrupt their hunt, leave – giving up my best stand and concieding their disrespect by setting up knowingly that close to me. I decided to walk down and talk to them and was dissapointed by the response: “We’re on public water and we can hunt wherever and whenever we want.” Brazen words for the 12 year old in the group to hear his dad reply to me for simply asking if they were going to come back on Sunday. I was happy to have kept my cool, turn the other cheek so to speak, and remind myself that if I can teach 3 others respect while hunting, the disresectful 1 will keep losing ground.

The good news is that only we have the process to do something about it. Get invloved, weather it’s making a stronger attempt to explain to others what hunting ethics area all about, join or start an orgainzation that supports your beliefs, or all the way to contacting elected officials. The only ingnorance is silence. This is an ethics debate, one that will never have clear cut rules or rights and wrongs. We as ethical sportsman have to think beyond what is best for “me” or what is most convienent for “me” to what is best for everyone. Try not to blame others for your bad experiences but think in terms of what more can I do to better the experience for everyone. Trust me I understand the frustrations, but through involvement we can ensure that we and future generations’ coninue to experience some of the things that we tell stories about, are passionate about, and if you’re like me, look forward to for most of the year.

Stay safe

Very well written post, full of common sense.

[Pinusbanksiana]

I also want to mention that in the 7 years of having the lease we have received exactly 3 (yes 3) phone calls from people asking to use our land. One was to actually hunt on it that we denied, our group policy is that you have to be a paying member of the lease to hunt on it.

What if someone asked to hunt turkey or grouse?

[Buckhunt]

This has come up in the past - referring to others asking to hunt grouse. After a couple years of trying to decide what's fair, we came to the agreement that only paying members get to hunt....period. Even within our group of close families, we ran into wanting to bring friends from school, cousins, etc. which we decided wasn't fair to the other paying members, thus the camp rule.

Part of the lease policy through Potlatch requires to establish a camp president, vp, and so on and we are required to submit "camp rules" each year with our lease payment. With money involved, we take this serious and meet yearly to adjust rules, membership, and so on. May sound a little corny but it has been a smooth proces, allowing everyone a say on who gets to hunt where, new or changing rules, adding members, etc. In seven years, we have had two people drop out, added a new family (dad and son) to the group and changed several rules.