People and baiting

[jay83196]

I'm sure ill regret or kick myself for asking and not getting it but...been a long day, APR horse?

[deerminator]

Antler Point Restrictions ... Back to the show! lol

[96trigger]

This was the first year I tried to put in food plots. I failed miserably. I was trying to hold more deer in our little 40 acre piece. The farmland around gets picked early and immediately plowed under. My plots were not big and the turkeys loved them. I found planting them and watching them grow very satisfying, right up until the drought killed them in july. To me it was not the same as putting out a pile of corn or apples, which I have never, nor will I ever do. I am seeing more and more people putting in small food plots down here. Lots of them are the size of small gardens,but their are multiple plots. Many of these small plots will feed deer for much of the winter when the fields are picked or plowed under. I fail to see how this compares to a 5 gallon pail of corn dumped once a year to bring deer in front of a stand. It might just be my obtuse thinking, I don't really know for sure, and I have not seen any kind of benefit so far.

[eyeguy 54]

[Scott K]

I guess I am looking at it in a different way.

Lets say nobody baits, and nobody plants deer food plots to attract the deer. Deer are moving naturally through everyones land. Fair to all.

Then lets shake this up, and allow food plots only to be legal. Obviously this benefits the larger land owners. So now the larger land owners are altering the deers normal paths, taking them off of the smaller land owners land, which they traveled regularly on until the new large food plots were planted. This benefits the large land owners.

The small land owners can try to plant a small food plot on their land, but it wont compare to the large ones made by the large land owners. Even if everyone planted deer food plots, it would benefit the large land owners.

Baiting, will allow the small land owners to attract deer back into his land, like the deer were traveling on before the large land owner decided to plant deer food plots, and alter the deer more onto the large land owners property.

Most surrounding states allow baiting, and they have good deer hunting. But MN doesnt allow it, so that makes it bad.

Let me ask you this, do you bait for bear? If so, why is that ok, but it isnt ok for deer hunting? Same aspect, you are trying to lure the bear in, by using food. How is that ethical, but it isnt for deer?

[CANOPY SAM]

What's happening here? Yesterday we were talking about bags and boxes of product sold in stores for the purpose of attracting and holding game at a "bait station".

And we were talking about how to bait people.

Now I see people eating popcorn and chocolate bars! Is this an analogy for baiting people? Popcorn and giant chocolate bars?

I would definitely run the gauntlet for a chance to eat that giant chocolate bar!

[96trigger]

4WE, I think were you hunt at and where I hunt at are two different areas. Comparing baiting and food plots where you hunt, to where I hunt are probably very different. Food plots around here are great, and they are supplemental, but there are also thousands of acres of alfalfa and corn fields. Food plots don't hold the deer nearly as well as the standing corn. I believe that they help feed the deer, but I do not believe that around here, every deer in a quarter mile will feed only in that food plot, leaving a vast deerless area for everyone else. We also have large fields that never seem to get picked until late December, these cornfields hold more deer than ANYONE's food plots. Most of your farm fields will keep deer in the area until they get completely covered in snow. More than any food plot. I think up in areas where there is not as much, if any, cropland food plots would play a bigger role, and I might feel differently.

[Scott K]

You are correct. Not much for farm crops in the area. Those that are in the area, were pretty much planted for deer, knowing they werent going to have a long enough growing season to produce a valuable crop from it.

As I said before, I am not really complaining because I am fortunate to have good deer movement through my land, even though the large land owner did plant large deer plots, and the fact, I have also planted stuff to attract the deer into my land.

I was just trying to defend the fact that just because baiting seems like the easy way out to one person, it maybe his only chance to lure deer back onto his property, because of people that planted deer plots, or many other reasons. What may seem cheap and unethical to one, may be anothers only chance to even get a deer.

I spend enough hours in the woods each year, that I would fill my tags regardless. I enjoy spending time in stand, and it isnt just about filling the freezer. I just got back into bow hunting, and I bow hunt with my son. I go to Wisconsin for the youth deer hunting in October, I slug hunt in MN, I spend the 9 days in Wisconsin for the regular gun season, then go back up in December to fill any un filled doe tags in the late Wisconsin deer hunting season. Then back bow hunting if the tags arent filled.

[CANOPY SAM]

I think 96T and 4WE are ignoring my giant chocolate bar bait!

[96trigger]

Not ignoring it, I just already have a 20lb Crunch bar at home.

[Scott K]

I love chocolate, but I can hardly eat a normal sized bar before getting to sugared out.

[bigbucks]

First of all I started the whole people baiting part & feel really stupid it didn't register with me that that was the reason for those pics... Go ahead & have a laugh at my expense on that one, seriously. The Hershey's would have to have almonds or it's no draw for me.

I'm not really in favor of baiting, but I couldn't honestly say I'm horribly opposed to it. I don't get the whole argument about what's a guy supposed to do if he lives next to a farm & the deer are all in these big crop fields. That only make sense, lots of deer can't live on somebody's little 2, 3, 5 or 10 acre place. What would they eat, all year, not just during season? If you don't have a good place to hunt on your own property you have to find a different place to hunt, isn't that what the rest of us do? I've tried to improve my 50 acres & am pleased that a few turkeys have finally moved in, I've usually had deer, but because I didn't have turkeys before & wanted them I should have been allowed to bait? It'd be cool if there were wild elk & mule deer at my place too, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Would it be okay for me to go spread a wagon load of grain or corn on my cut hayfield so the geese will land there? It would work, but I know how that's going to turn out for me legally. I have to go hunt geese somewhere where they are if I want to shoot some, just like I'll have to get my elk out West most likely.

[Scott K]

But my point is, if everything was left natural, no deer plots. I am not talking farm fields, just deer plots, then deer would travel better on those small lots. But then you have the large land owners planting stuff to draw MORE deer on to their lands from the small land owners lands. Then the deer no longer travel on the small land owners lands. Only because the large land owners altered things to give them the benefit. What I am saying is, to be fair, they should either ban deer plots, or allow baiting, so the small people have an equal playing field. Instead of just making it, if you have lots of money, then you can attract deer, but if you dont have a lot of land, and money, then you get to find a different spot to hunt. Even though, the spot you had, was good, until the large land owner came and planted food plots, and drew the deer off your land.

[CANOPY SAM]

I'm not laughing at you BigBucks, I'm laughing with you.

Actually, I think the popcorn and candy bar pics are more of a spoof on "watching yet another debate play out"?

If we can't laugh at ourselves, how can we possibly make it thru this goofed up existence?

Peace and love to all! Now let's go back in the woods and shoot critters and grill their flesh with delicious seasonings!

[nofishfisherman]

But my point is, if everything was left natural, no deer plots. I am not talking farm fields, just deer plots, then deer would travel better on those small lots. But then you have the large land owners planting stuff to draw MORE deer on to their lands from the small land owners lands. Then the deer no longer travel on the small land owners lands. Only because the large land owners altered things to give them the benefit. What I am saying is, to be fair, they should either ban deer plots, or allow baiting, so the small people have an equal playing field. Instead of just making it, if you have lots of money, then you can attract deer, but if you dont have a lot of land, and money, then you get to find a different spot to hunt. Even though, the spot you had, was good, until the large land owner came and planted food plots, and drew the deer off your land.

How will baiting give the small landowners the advantage they need when bait would also then become legal for the large land owners as well?

Also how would you legislate food plots? How can you know for sure crops were planted for deer only and not harvested for some other purpose? Would any small planted area become illegal regardless of intent? Are apples trees going to be banned as well? There is just no way to 100% define what is a food plot intended for hunting and what is a plot planted for various other purposes.

[Musky Buck]

Maybe with so much baiting already happening in MN maybe some are misguided in thinking their area has changed due to food plots when in actuality baiting may be behind the changes. It isn't like we go walking other peoples properties during deer season to find out and most aren't readily sharing that info. 23 days to deer camp guys, time to focus on outfoxing the biggest buck I can. I wonder if he knows we're a comin soon!

[skee0025]

Say what you want that food plots are like baiting they are not. Anyone can go to a store buy a bait and set it there and they are done. These plots have been up for a long time and they are used 6 months out of the year by many animals. You can say I am targeting deer but it helps many other animals out as well.

So your argument is that your form of baiting should be allowed because you spend more money and time at it? I ask again, if the same rules applied applied would you still plant the food plot? If your honest answer is no, then the "it helps other animals" line is just a cheap copout. AS far as standing crops and bow hunting, I dont see it as an issue, everyone out bowhunting has the same rules, which cant be said during Firearms season..

[skee0025]

How can you know for sure crops were planted for deer only and not harvested for some other purpose? Would any small planted area become illegal regardless of intent? Are apples trees going to be banned as well? There is just no way to 100% define what is a food plot intended for hunting and what is a plot planted for various other purposes.

Your a CO checking a small (lets say 1 ac) clearcut in the middle of a wooded 40 Nov 1st. Your see 2 deer stands and the area is planted with clover and sugar beets. Can you provide an plausible answer that would explain it other than food plot used for deer hunting?

[Kdog10]

Your a CO checking a small (lets say 1 ac) clearcut in the middle of a wooded 40 Nov 1st. Your see 2 deer stands and the area is planted with clover and sugar beets. Can you provide an plausible answer that would explain it other than food plot used for deer hunting?

Yes I can provide a plausible answer...the "deer stands" are actually look out towers used by hunter control officers to protect the deer using the plot as a food source from the hunters.

Personally, baiting is illegal...so is speeding. You decide which direction your moral compass will take you. In my opinion something sown from the ground doesnt fit my definition of baiting.

[Scott K]

Ya, and my pile of corn I dumped out is for the squirrels, and the squirrels only, and if I see a deer eating any of the corn, I will shoot them

[Jason_Gundersen]

I just shot a doe last week in Burnett county WI last week, where baiting is NOW illegal, and when I gutted it out I slit the stomach out of curiosity to see what was in it and low and behold there was corn in there... There are no AG fields within 20 miles, it was on a small chunk of public land (less than 100 acres) surrounded by private property... So people nearby are clearly baiting and I can say that we did it in the past when it was legal, but refuse to do it regardless of how many people I know are... I have seen more deer during daylight hours with pictures of a few mature bucks eventhough we are not baiting on this piece of public property

The only thing that us ethical hunters can do is put in your due diligence and plan accordingly... I also own 100 acres of private property with multiple food plots and even though neighbors are still baiting we still see plenty of deer... The people that are baiting deer really only hurt themselves since it turns mature deer nocturnal and we catch them in daylight hours when they are in transition moving to bait piles and natural feeding areas

I will always follow the regulations best to my ability and do whatever it takes to harvest a deer legally despite what neighbors are doing

[lichen fox]

So, if a deer has corn in it's belly he was definitly on a pile of corn and not a corn "plot" or corn field?

[jerkbait]

So, if a deer has corn in it's belly he was definitly on a pile of corn and not a corn "plot" or corn field?

The pile is usaully the conclusion that most people go to. A few years back my buddy shot a nice doe out of his stand and when he was gutting it he nicked the stomach and out come corn. We thought for sure the nieghbor was baiting them. Well low and behold later that winter I was out tooling around on my new snowmobile and I could see where the neighbor's had the plots of standing corn. Were not bait piles after all. But most everyone always assumes baiting 1st.

[Musky Buck]

Just daydream a little about 550,000 deer hunters dumping 25 million pounds of bait in our state or more, just picture the bow hunters, muzzleloader crew, picture that picture, and deer numbers are in check, we take them out of check and would we see a 1974 after a bad winter and high harvest with heavy wolf predation going on, I don't want to see that.

[slimngrizzly]

If you own a small piece of land, there are a lot of ways to hunt deer other than "on feed". Bedding, security, good browse, rubs and scrapes, travel corridors.... those are some example of why deer could be on your land and how you could hunt them....

I guess I just dont understand the claim that the rich neighbor has all the deer on his land. They probably use his land most because it sounds like hes providing them with what they want. But I would bet the 40 acres next to it is not void of deer. Figure out the positives the 40 offers and hunt acordingly.

NO land holds ALL the deer ALL the time!!!