changed the oil today

[mnviking28]

Finns-I know you were, not directed at you.

Macgyver, we are going to just agree to disagree. If you have a cheap filter, without a good quality filter media and even spacing of the pleats, it creates a channel for the oil to go through. The channel still allows the oil to circulate, but does nothing to remove the contaminants (dirt, carbon, etc.). The extra contaminants cause bearing wear and piston ring wear as well. Same thing with the cheap ones using a cardboard endplate and a stamped steel spring for relief instead of a metal end and a coil spring. The cardboard can collapse and make it just like you don't have a filter at all. The cheaper filters also typically don't have the end glued together very well, so you have leakage there as well. So, what I am trying to say is that it isn't a plugged filter that is causing it, it is the lack there of.

[SkunkedAgain]

...but isn't Macgyver's point that even with the majority of vehicle owners using sub-standard filters (from the oil change chains), that you seldom see an engine breakdown as the result of it? Maybe that's the place that you guys truly disagree.

[Macgyver55]

Quote:

we are going to just agree to disagree

I'm ok with that...

Quote:

If you have a cheap filter, without a good quality filter media and even spacing of the pleats, it creates a channel for the oil to go through.

If it does that, it is likely defective, or it does not meet industry standards.

As you probably well know, any mechanical part can be defective no matter the advertised quality.

Quote:

The extra contaminants cause bearing wear and piston ring wear as well

As the guy who tears them down, what I'm saying is that we do not find excessive wear from oil contamination. We find far more problems caused by overheating, gasket failure and oil contaminated with coolant than by any other reason on gas engines.

Contaminants can also be introduced to an engine through poor/dirty/missing/ improperly sealed air filters and through sloppy oil filling habits and cause damage to internals before ever reaching the oil filter.

I'm not discouraging using a quality part, just saying that using one wont necessarily assure you of longer engine life.

[mnviking28]

I used to tear them down as well. In addition to the time I spent behind the counter at the parts store, I had a part time job working in a machine shop for about 8 years. It is like the guy that runs pennzoil or quaker state in this climate. In the south, it seems to be just fine. Up here, the deposits left around the valve train is just amazing. There are engines out there that have issues with coolant leaks in the intake manifold and head gaskets causing the contamination of coolant that you are talking about, absolutely no arguement there. But, like I said, I have cut apart numerous filters of most brands on several occasions. They are not all created equally, not even close. They have been random filters taken off the shelf of whatever discount chain had them. Always bought the same part number of each brand so you are comparing apples to apples. The deposits and contamination also collect at various places around the engine such as oil holes in bearings, oil galley, and oil pump pick up screen as well. This will also help to cause your "lack of lubrication" that you referred to in a previous post. It is all related in one way or another. Anyway, have beat this topic to death, goes back to agree to disagree.

[Scott K]

My .02, if you change your oil every 3000, you more then likely wont have any issues with any of the top brand name filters, or oil. If you are using extended intervals, then a filter that can hold up to the extended miles, and time, should be used.

[Hookmaster]

I had already changed the oil a few times myself filling it with the amount of oil specified in the owners manual. I was not over-filling it. Then I decided to use the dealerships free oil change coupon I got with the new vehicle literature. After they changed it, it was over-filled per the dipstick oil level when compared to the dipstick oil level when filled with the amount specified in the owners manual. The owners manual specification was 4.5 or 5.5 quarts. I always added the 1/2 a quart exactly. I assume they gave me the extra 1/2 a quart making it 5 or 6 quarts.

[Scott K]

That sure is a possibility. The oil change tech may think that is the proper amount. Maybe a phone call to the service writer, or manager would be a good idea, just to correct the lube tech, so he doesnt continue to over fill them.

[flyfisher03]

I would also like to add for those who still change their oils at 3000 miles. That modern oils including conventional oil far outlasts does not break down as fast as it used to. So if your manuel recommends oil changes every 5000, 7500, or 10000. I would go by that or you are just through money down the drain. Not to mention using more oil that could be refined into gasoline or diesel.

And as far as using a synthetic oil the oil itself is not what breaks down it is the detergents used in the oil that breaks down. I know a guy who used amsoil in his Chrylser minivan and found a larger capacity filter and all he did was pull the filter and add enough to top it off. He sent in oil samples at that time. With no need to change all the oil.

If you are concerned about the miles and the oil there are places that you can send in an oil sample at certain intervals to be examined for contaminants.

[Scott K]

Or, for $17, I can just change the oil and filter, and know, I have new oil, and filter

[flyfisher03]

One of the biggest wastes with owning a vehicle is changing the oil too frequently. Not only is it a waste of my money but a waste of petroleum that can be used for other more useful things.

[Scott K]

But that used oil, then in turn gets used to heat a shop, that replaces what ever other fuel it would have used in stead.

I guess I never understood the concept of paying $10+ ship, and to have your oil tested at 3000 miles, when you can have new oil for a few bucks more. Then you know it is good.

I also change my clothes daily, and wash them, rather then sending them out to someone, to sniff them to tell me if they are good for another day, or if they should be washed now. Sure I could save water/soap/electricity to have some one sniff it, because more then likely it is good for a couple days, but I can just wash them, then I know they are clean

[flyfisher03]

I'm not saying that sending it for testing to see if it is bad is the way to go. Just double check your owners manuel and change via recommended there. If you are that concerned about a warranty keep a milage log with receipts showing oil and filter purchased.

Also there are a lot more efficient and cleaner fuels (propane, natural gas, geothermal) to use to heat a shop than waste oil.

[Scott K]

Then what are you going to do with all of the waste oil?

[Jeremy airjer W]

I guess I never understood the concept of paying $10+ ship, and to have your oil tested at 3000 miles, when you can have new oil for a few bucks more. Then you know it is good.

I also change my clothes daily, and wash them, rather then sending them out to someone, to sniff them to tell me if they are good for another day, or if they should be washed now. Sure I could save water/soap/electricity to have some one sniff it, because more then likely it is good for a couple days, but I can just wash them, then I know they are clean

Ditto!

[flyfisher03]

Recycle or re-refine it to make "new oil".

http://www.epa.gov/osw/conserve/materials/usedoil/index.htm#tips

Would reduce our need for foreign oil.

[DTro]

I've always preferred to change my own oil, even at a higher cost. Not only do I get to poke around under the vehicle to look for trouble spots, I get a sense of 'man' fulfillment by getting a little dirty.

Plus, I don't think I've ever forgotten to put the oil filler cap back on and I stay a little more stress free when I don't have to hear, "your brake pads are borderline, you have a ball joint that is a little loose, and you are going to need a set of tires really soon".

[BobT]

Quote:

I also change my clothes daily, and wash them, rather then sending them out to someone, to sniff them to tell me if they are good for another day, or if they should be washed now. Sure I could save water/soap/electricity to have some one sniff it, because more then likely it is good for a couple days, but I can just wash them, then I know they are clean

Man I'm glad I'm not looking for a job.

[BobT]

Plus, I don't think I've ever forgotten to put the oil filler cap back on and I stay a little more stress free when I don't have to hear, "your brake pads are borderline, you have a ball joint that is a little loose, and you are going to need a set of tires really soon".

Actually, that's part of the reason I do take mine to the dealer. They have a better idea what to look for in trouble spots than I do anymore and I've developed a certain level of trust with them over the years.

[DTro]

I think that is great, but a good friend used to work at Tires Plus and it was well known that they went "the extra mile" to find something to fix.

But if the trust factor is there, cool!

[JOHNBIGDOG]

You know how many DIY's come in to our shop (F150's) for the fuel tank strap recall that have ball joints that are about to fall out because they are not checked properly/never checked? Or how about people that go to quick lubes ALL the time? Every once and a while you need to have someone look over your vehicle completely. What happens when something fails spectacularly and totals the vehicle? Hey the engine still runs.

rant complete...

[CAMAN]

You know how many DIY's come in to our shop (F150's) for the fuel tank strap recall that have ball joints that are about to fall out because they are not checked properly/never checked? Or how about people that go to quick lubes ALL the time? Every once and a while you need to have someone look over your vehicle completely. What happens when something fails spectacularly and totals the vehicle? Hey the engine still runs.

rant complete...

Ha!! Well I've had a dealership and the "21 Point Inspection" miss ball joints also...

[Jeremy airjer W]

You know how many DIY's come in to our shop (F150's) for the fuel tank strap recall that have ball joints that are about to fall out because they are not checked properly/never checked? Or how about people that go to quick lubes ALL the time? Every once and a while you need to have someone look over your vehicle completely. What happens when something fails spectacularly and totals the vehicle? Hey the engine still runs.

rant complete...

Yup, just about every car that comes to the shop on the hook with broken front end parts has a quick lube sticker in the window. So not only did they get hosed on an overpriced oil change but there vehicle never got the inspection it needed. I'd much rather see them come in on the hook. It costs them a lot more after things brake and of course I make a lot more!

For those of you that take advantage of the super low oil change prices offered at real shops and don't ever buy any of the upsells, shame on you! Eventually we start to figure out who you are, and we become less likely to remind you of those loose parts that we have been telling you about for the last year! Your already saving $20 so why is it so hard to ask to see the air filter and if it's dirty buy one? Your still money ahead! Same with bulbs,cabin filters and wiper blades. You know you need them, you know we have mentioned it for the last 15 thousand miles. We know you don't really have them at home in the garage AND explain why it is talkin so long to sell your vehicle ( another popular excuse).

Honestly if your only showing up for a cheap oil change your in the wrong place and your talking advantage of a service. If your not interested in maintaining your vehicle than go pay full price at a quick lube and hope nothing falls off.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I stay a little more stress free when I don't have to hear, "your brake pads are borderline, you have a ball joint that is a little loose, and you are going to need a set of tires really soon".

Because if we don't guess who the lawyers are calling after there is a situation! I know there are shops that like to recommend this stuff because it's fun to see all the numbers add up on the estimate. For every one of those shops there are several shops that will tell you like it is, no b.s.! If you havent found one of those shops than you haven't been looking in the right place!

I see it all the time in this forum. I bought tires at tires plus, NTB, pep boys, etc and they said I need a billion dollars worth of front end work. Well of course you did! Your dealing with a company that offers the least profitable parts as there main sell. They have to recommend those parts or they would be out of business!

[Dave S]

My wife took her car to the former Saturn dealer in Burnsville for an oil change and was told she needed new tires. This warranted a special trip on my part to talk to the service manager directly and ask why they recommended new tires when the set on the car was only 3 weeks old? After alot of back pedaling on his part, I left unconvinced by his excuses and never went back.

Sad thing is, there's too many dealerships that are no better than the fleecing tire shops.

[JOHNBIGDOG]

Ha!! Well I've had a dealership and the "21 Point Inspection" miss ball joints also...

* No one is perfect.......