illegal baiting

[Basseyes]

Why does it matter how big and numerous they get? Boats keep getting bigger and more numerous, so are fish houses. I don't understand the logic?

Have any pro-baiters baited?

Go to WI during the deer season to see what competitive baiting is all about. That is why I don't want it in MN. I don't want tons and tons of corn, apples, sugar beets, carrots, pumpkins, oats and other foods left to rot out in the woods in piles.

I doubt a high percentage of pro-baiters have any experience with a bait pile or a food plot. If we get rid of all recreational feeding, where does the bait issue stand? Is the real issue here, recreational feeding vs baiting?

[Big Dave2]

The real reason is that the DNR, and the majority of hunters in Minnesota find it unethical, and think it will have a negative effect on our sport. I don't understand how hard it is to see that. If the majority of people wanted baiting to be legal, there would be a push to change the law.

So, when the majority of Minnesotans rise up and decide that hunting is immoral or unethical and demand that it be outlawed you would suggest that all hunters just go away quietly? Who are you or anyone else to tell me what is ethical? Everyone needs to realize that ethics are different from person to person. If you enjoy rifle hunting will you be happy to quit that if the majority of hunters in MN decide that rifles are unethical and now only long bows should be used?

[bowhunternw]

I think that all feeding should not be allowed. Have you ever seen trail cam pics of racoons on the food pile. Sure good way to catch rabies or spread other diseases.

[Basseyes]

But who's to say whether or not little baby raccoons and squirrels aren't benefiting from the little piles of corn laying in the woods? Just think of how many baby raccoons and squirrels we could help

In all honesty I think that the people who are mad at the notion are the ones that are putting their blood sweat and money into this massive food plot, but gets aced out by the guy down the road that dumps a pile of corn on a trail and shoots the big booner that was supposed to be feeding in that big green leafy food plot!

The ones that need to err on the side of caution are the deer

I'm seeing this from both sides, and it's hard not to see it this way tough. Thanks for keeping it respectful guys, that's what this is all about! A decent conversation that doesn't need to get too personal!

Good post, a sense of humor goes a long, long ways. And agree the lack of personal attacks seems very unusual? If allowed to bait, it could get comical to see the trailers full of corn heading north up 35. Could be good for farmers. I doubt baiting will get legalized. But I do see recreational feeding coming under fire more and more.

[Big Dave2]

Have any pro-baiters baited?

Go to WI during the deer season to see what competitive baiting is all about. That is why I don't want it in MN. I don't want tons and tons of corn, apples, sugar beets, carrots, pumpkins, oats and other foods left to rot out in the woods in piles.

Yes, food and organic material left in the woods for the wildlife to eat is a terrible thing.

I doubt a high percentage of pro-baiters have any experience with a bait pile or a food plot. If we get rid of all recreational feeding, where does the bait issue stand? Is the real issue here, recreational feeding vs baiting?

No, the real issue here is why make something illegal when there is no real basis for the law other than "some people don't like it".

[Big Dave2]

If allowed to bait, it could get comical to see the trailers full of corn heading north up 35.

If we think that baiting itself can be controlled by outlawing it, couldn't we then also control the size of bait piles with laws?

[InTheNorthwoods]

I usually don't see eye-to-eye with BigDave when it comes to general hunting ideology, and I don't think I agree with baiting, BUT, I have to agree with many of his defenses here.

There are a lot of stretch of the imagination/weak/illogical arguments being used against baiting. The one that always makes me laugh is the disease argument. Could it spread disease? I suppose so. But any hunter who has spent more than a day or two in the woods, has seen how deer interact and have bodily contact on a daily basis. And those who live in areas where deer yard or congregate in herds in the winter (a majority of MN), know how close deer are together and how they share food sources already. Hence, it seems like arguing that baiting will lead to disease spread is little more than a "feel good" argument when that bodily contact is occurring naturally.

Furthermore, it is blatantly wrong (against the research) to argue that supplemental feeding is not beneficial to deer when done responsibly. Supplemental feeding is done by many of the very same governmental bodies of states that don't allow baiting during hunting. Supplemental feeding has also helped deer make it through severe winters. Its a simple fact, and it shouldn't be ignored.

My point is simple, that while I don't necessarily care for baiting while hunting - I find it a little lazy - I think that we should use common sense in arguing "why".

(For the record, the single reason that I don't like baiting is that it promotes competitive baiting and an unnatural location for food. Meaning, it can have a great impact on when and where deer move affecting neighbors. (In advance, the difference with a food plot is that it won't grow in a swamp, a thick bedding area, etc. It requires tillable land/open areas.)

[Basseyes]

Yes, food and organic material left in the woods for the wildlife to eat is a terrible thing.

No, the real issue here is why make something illegal when there is no real basis for the law other than "some people don't like it".

Interesting?

There is a point where bait piles rot, to the point of becoming unusable to wildlife. And they become a very unsightly, smelly mess, not good for much of anything. That is why bear hunters are to clean up their bait piles after the season is over.

Here's a list of what I base my opinion on for keeping baiting for deer unlawful;

1. There is little, to no long term benefit for wildlife.

2. It will lead to competition on public and private land, that will have many negitory effects.

3. CWD and TB are real issues.

4. Non hunters look at hunting on the whole as an issue like any other. Baiting tends to sway that non partisan thought process towards one with an unfavorable bias.

5. My favorite, I just don't like it.

6. The mess it will leave, will be similar to how lakeshore cabin, home owners and sportsman look at trash left on the ice by ice fishermen. It does not paint a respectful picture.

Majorities, ethics and the regulatory process, walk a tight rope. There are many laws on the books, that are there because of tradition and have no real basis other than they are there because we deem them to be beneficial to the creature we are hunting or the tradition of fair chase. Is everybody going to agree on everything? Nope. Do you think there is a real reason to keep baiting banned? Obviously not. That's your right. For me, I have given you a few reasons why to keep it illegal. Now tell me what are the benefits of legalizing it, other than there's no basis for making it illegal? What is the up side to it for wildlife?

http://wideerhunters.org/articles/bfhalfgal.pdf

[Musky Buck]

Problem is in 2012 responsibly or responsibility is a word that MN'ens seem to have forgotten, not all, but too many. Just had a PT conference and noticed 9 out of 22 families didn't make it since we were last and there's examples of how icky our state and others are on a daily basis, watch the news, not many want to have responsility. I hear ya inthenorth and you're quite right on, if it were 40 years ago if baiting was implemented we had the very responsible types of people leading families then. There aren't enough of em around anymore. Everything is supposed to be free,cheap,easy,fast,faster. Baiting basically destroyed the 1 area I hunt and done with a bow and arrows long before the orange army hit the woods, I kept thinking if they shot 20 deer over bait, how many total have they dusted over bait ? How long have they been at it, why did it work so well in Septmeber, wouldn't it be more effective the colder it gets? Would a CO believe me that I didn't know about these guys baiting if he pushed that it must be me, have I unknowingly been hunting an illegal area or did the critters clean it up before the 10 day period and finally no wonder I've seen squat in that swamp the past 5 years and tend to go there less and less.

[Big Dave2]

1. There is little, to no long term benefit for wildlife.

What is the long-term benefit of allowing rifles for hunting? What's the long-term benefit of allowing elevated stands, GPS, trail cameras or doe scent? Why does there have to be a long-term benefit?

2. It will lead to competition on public and private land, that will have many negitory effects.

There is already competition on public and private land. If you think bait piles should be limited that would be fine with me.

3. CWD and TB are real issues.

I'll say it one more time. It's a non-issue in this conversation until all deer feeding is banned.

4. Non hunters look at hunting on the whole as an issue like any other. Baiting tends to sway that non partisan thought process towards one with an unfavorable bias.

I don't think that is true. Non-hunters would not be aware of this issue if we did not raise it ourselves. They would think it is just another acceptable hunting practice like bear baiting and using bait to catch fish.

5. My favorite, I just don't like it.

Now we are getting to the REAL heart of this issue. You don't like it so it should be illegal. I don't like Sail boating but I don't call for it to be banned.

6. The mess it will leave, will be similar to how lakeshore cabin, home owners and sportsman look at trash left on the ice by ice fishermen. It does not paint a respectful picture.

Like I said, if you feel a need to limit the amount of bait allowed I'm fine with that. That would take care of the issue. If the local wildlife can't eat a couple of 5 gallon buckets of corn before it goes bad then they aren't very hungry.

I have given you a few reasons why to keep it illegal. Now tell me what are the benefits of legalizing it, other than there's no basis for making it illegal? What is the up side to it for wildlife?

So anything that doesn't have an upside should be banned? Whats the upside of rap music? How about skateboards or IPods?

http://wideerhunters.org/articles/bfhalfgal.pdf

[Gofishleech]

I wish I could stop looking at this thread!!

[Gordie]

Haven't heard the upside yet ?

Up side To iPods ... Stores music so does 8 tracks but nobody used those any more

Up side to rap. Freedom of expression

Upside to skateboards ... They help make up the worlds dumbest videos

Upside to baiting...

I haven't found one yet

[eyeguy 54]

I don't like Sail boating but I don't call for it to be banned.

line of the year! LOL

[Big Dave2]

Haven't heard the upside yet ?

Up side To iPods ... Stores music so does 8 tracks but nobody used those any more

Up side to rap. Freedom of expression

Upside to skateboards ... They help make up the worlds dumbest videos

Upside to baiting...

I haven't found one yet

I can play that game too.

Upside to baiting... I can get multiple deer into range so I can not only make an ethical kill shot but I can pick the deer that I want to shoot easier.

[hockeybc69]

I cant wait to get in the fields and spend some quality time this spring planting food that the wildlife are going to frolick through all summer, fall, and winter next year.

[Gordie]

No its easier to pile up some corn and shoot all the deer .only thing easier is to put up fences..

[Big Dave2]

I wish I could stop looking at this thread!!

You can quit looking if you want, it's the same as the other 5 threads a year that get started on this topic!

[Big Dave2]

No its easier to pile up some corn and shoot all the deer .only thing easier is to put up fences..

It's easier to catch catfish in a boat too, maybe all boats should be outlawed and everyone should just shore fish? A lot of things we use make hunting and fishing easier, that doesn't mean they are unethical or should be outlawed.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

it's the same as the other 5 threads a year that get started on this topic!

Yeah and the 8 pages of this thread is the same drivel over and over too.

Not that its not entertaining to read....

[Gordie]

Yep everything is easier but lets all be lazy and shoot deer off a PILE of corn .

They run deer with dogs in a southern states so should is that next .

All the TV shows from texas bait for deer so should we.

Well if everyone jumps off a bridge so should we.

Should we have deer baiting becuase you like it?

Should we teach our kids that its EASY to get a deer by baitin and really not hunting them? should we teach ethics any more at all.

Pride and bragging rights cant wait to here this great hunting story

Might as well sit the chair on the deck and listen the auto drip coffee maker while your pickin out your deer on that pile of corn next to the garage

Hey ma get my gun the big bucks at the pile a corn

Makes for a great story

Happy hunting

I'm waiting to go catfishing in my boat

[Gordie]

It's easier to catch catfish in a boat too, maybe all boats should be outlawed and everyone should just shore fish? A lot of things we use make hunting and fishing easier, that doesn't mean they are unethical or should be outlawed.

I would have to disagree on this one a boat makes it easier to fish more productive water and you can't make that fish bite.

It would be easier if we used dynamite to fish .should that be legal?

It would be easier to use the old crank phone box to gather fish should that be legal?

This can go round and round just because somebody else is alowed to do something does that make ok for everyone else to do it.

If thats what you want so bad keep pushing for it but becarful what you wish for you might get something you can't control and then what?

Is this what type of tags you'll end up using?

The New Minnesota Deer Tag I mean Ear tag

[Bear55]

There is bait all over the place, its actually called food and the deer eat it in the wild every day. The reason we call it hunting is because we pursue our game, not have them hunt for us sitting over a pile of strategically placed pile of corn. Get out in the woods and actually have a look around, you might even find where the deer bed and where they feed. It's pretty simple really.

I hunt places where I don't see any other hunters, but I find a lot of abandoned stands way back in the woods. They are very old and one could never hunt out of them but I am surprised how well these stands are placed, often in a remote bedding area or funnel. It's pretty safe to say many of our forfathers knew the woods better than us and were likely woodsmen/hunters. Most people these days don't bother to hunt a stand if they can't drive a atv right to their stand.

Back to your regularily scheduled baiting thread.

[Big Dave2]

Yep everything is easier but lets all be lazy and shoot deer off a PILE of corn .

What if I said, "let's all be lazy and use GPS and fish finders and modern rods and reels"? We used to check depth with an anchor rope and our GPS was lining up with landmarks on the shore to find our spot. We could also catch fish with a jiggle stick if we weren't so LAZY!

They run deer with dogs in a southern states so should is that next .

I have no problems with using dogs for hunting. In fact I do it all the time for Grouse and pheasant and I love it.

All the TV shows from texas bait for deer so should we.

If you want to, if you don't want to don't do it.

Well if everyone jumps off a bridge so should we.

Who are you, my mother?

Should we have deer baiting becuase you like it?

Everything in a FREE country should be legal unless there is a REALLY good reason why it should not be.

Should we teach our kids that its EASY to get a deer by baitin and really not hunting them? should we teach ethics any more at all.

Define ethics. Don't you think it is possible for that to mean something different to everyone? Did the Native American tribes of the 1600's have ethics? I'm sure they did not care if a deer or other game animal were eating when they killed it for food.

Pride and bragging rights cant wait to here this great hunting story

Why does pride and bragging rights have anything to do with this? Can't some people just hunt for the enjoyment of hunting? I don't care to brag about things I kill.

Might as well sit the chair on the deck and listen the auto drip coffee maker while your pickin out your deer on that pile of corn next to the garage

Hey ma get my gun the big bucks at the pile a corn

How is that different from the guy with the heated box stand over looking the 5 acre food plot?

Makes for a great story

Happy hunting

I'm waiting to go catfishing in my boat

[Big Dave2]

I would have to disagree on this one a boat makes it easier to fish more productive water and you can't make that fish bite.

You can't make a deer come to your bait pile during legal shooting hours either.

[arrow]

I too have been encouraged by the civil discourse on this topic. Its a very challenging one and as evidenced in other states many of their sportsmen would disagree with baiting being illegal. I have hunted in both Michigan and Wisconsin and can tell you it becomes a real competition. Michigan I believe says to limit bait to a 5 gallon bucket full but nobody abides by this law. It's simply amazing the amount of bait that gets dumped. As you drive down the road you see signs everywhere posting bait for sale. Even the Holiday gas stations sell deer corn and apples. My brother in law lives in UP and they have an entire shed they devote to storing their bait. They drive out with a gator with a dump box and just pile it up in front of their blinds. Each blind is similar to a Mn fish house and has a heater. Very different form of hunting and what we would likely be looking at should Mn allow baiting. We do have this now with food plots but with baiting it would become the norm for most folks as it is in the UP.