Opener date

[DaveT]

Well said Lakevet.

I haven't been on here for a couple years, (career change, life changing event), but in the past this was my favorite topic. I still bowhunt in MN, but I haven't tagged a buck here since 05 and frankly my heart isn't in it anymore. I have found my bowhunting Nirvana in Kansas, and even though it costs me ten times as much to hunt there as it does here, it's worth every penny.

The combination of a DNR concerned more with revenue than quality, and a force of hunters ingrained with years of "tradition", is too much to overcome. Keep fighting the good fight, guys. But when you get tired of it, bite the bullet, pony up the bucks for that non resident tag, and never look back.

You can thank me later.

[mntatonka]

Keep fighting the good fight, guys. But when you get tired of it, bite the bullet, pony up the bucks for that non resident tag, and never look back.

You can thank me later.

Yes, please, if you don't like the way Minnesota is set up for hunting (making it the #2 state for large bucks according to the QDMA report last summer), then by all means, leave. It'll mean more options for the rest of us.

[harvey lee]

Exact reason I left Mn hunting approx 25 years ago. One will never change what is ingrained in Mn. The rest can have Mn deer.

Mn is so much into how many licenses can we sell.

[Dusty]

With all due respect lakevet, I don't think the Mn Deer season ever opened on Thanksgiving week. Iam 71 yoa and have hunted deer since 1952. In the 60's I hunted in far northeastern Mn and hunted the whole 9 day season and was a newly wed guy at the time, so I think that hunting over Thanksgiving would have been a no no for me. We now hunt near the Canadian boarder and have since 1979. In order to avoid some hunting pressure, in the late 1990's we began hunting the second week of the zone 1 season. This Year, that was from 11/12 to 11/19. The change to the second week really hasn't changed our success rate. We usually bag 3 to 4 deer for our group of 6 hunters. This year we bagged 3 bucks all 8 pointers. Now that sounds great and it was but One of 8 points weight was 118, the other two were just over 140. All three would have been legal in an APR world but actually we have killed bigger forks and 6 points. APRs or moving the hunt later May have there place in some parts of the state but not where I hunt. We have snow most times we hunt including this year from Tuesday on. Over the years since 1979 I have hunted on snowshoes 3 times because snow was knee deep or more. Moving the zone 1 season to Thanksgiving is risking deep snow and resulting in lower hunter numbers and lower deer harvest but it would leave more for the bulging wolf population.

I would like to say that I have no experience of hunting SE Mn or or anywhere south of Orr for that matter and I think most folks relate to their own situations. I just don't think its fair to impose what some hunter in SE Mn thinks is right to other hunters in other areas of the state.

[harvey lee]

mntatonka

I believe in the past 20 years, Mn has dropped a few positions. One has to also remember that some states like Iowa and Ill who are doing very well have not had deer hunting for near as many decades as those other states which skews those numbers.

Mn should have a higher nymber of book bucks harvested when they have had deer hunting for many more decades than other stated who now have some great hunting.

Please show me the research for lets say the last 5 years for book bucks.

[mabr]

Harvey Im all for it. I say December.

Dusty, your post got me thinking. With all due respect,You use the cold and snow as reason not to put it further out. You also mention not to punish other parts of the state for reasoning that might work for southern parts of MN doesn't work up north. So how does the DNR and people who hunt northern MN justify the additional week THAT YOU get to gun hunt that I dont get?

Let me get this right. It's colder north or Orr which is the reasoning im reading should mean having an earlier season and perhaps ending sooner. But as current seasons are you get to hunt later than I do in the warmer part of MN. This make no sense to me. Can someone explain that to me?

[SandPoint]

"I would just like to see that the larger bucks have a better chance to pass their genes onto other deer. You could still shoot them but let's let them breed a few doe first."

I just wanted to respond to this quote by Harvey (and I'm by no means bashing you Harvey) but this Phrase in general drives me nuts every time I hear it. That large buck had the exact same genes since day one (as a spike or fork) that it has as a mature buck, so to me that argument holds no water. Also as mentioned before Northern MN and Southern MN can be two differnt worlds weather wise at the end of November. I find it ironic that people who like to shoot big deer want to move the season out of the rut, so not as many people have the opporunity to shoot a big deer.

Just my two cents.

[mntatonka]

mntatonka

I believe in the past 20 years, Mn has dropped a few positions. One has to also remember that some states like Iowa and Ill who are doing very well have not had deer hunting for near as many decades as those other states which skews those numbers.

Mn should have a higher nymber of book bucks harvested when they have had deer hunting for many more decades than other stated who now have some great hunting.

Please show me the research for lets say the last 5 years for book bucks.

All I remember seeing is a QDMA or B&C report last summer detailing how Minnesota had become the number 2 state behind Ohio for record bucks. I have no idea if I can find the article again, but if I do I'll post it. I believe it was sometime in July or August that it was printed.

[DaveT]

Yes, please, if you don't like the way Minnesota is set up for hunting (making it the #2 state for large bucks according to the QDMA report last summer), then by all means, leave. It'll mean more options for the rest of us.

[1johntimm]

Move gun hunting to late Nov. and no more party hunting rules, (you can shoot 1 buck and that one is YOURS)

[mntatonka]

Move gun hunting to late Nov. and no more party hunting rules, (you can shoot 1 buck and that one is YOURS)

You do realize that MN is already one of the very few states that's one buck only right?

[DaveT]

Tonka, by the way, it's not the first time I've heard that. Please don't take it personally, but I've had a lot of guys on here try to tell me how good the hunting is here. I prefer to believe my own eyes and experiences over some magazine article or "look in the outdoor news, there's big bucks everywhere" argument.

I probably spend somewhere around 150 - 200 hours bow hunting in MN every year. I haven't seen a P&Y buck since the last one I shot in 05. That particular spot has houses on it now. I hunted 5 days in KS this year. I saw 16 different bucks, some of them more than once. One of them my brother killed, 150". One of them I killed, 177". My Dad killed a 144" buck, and saw at least 2 others that were P&Y. My Dad saw a dozen different bucks in one morning sit!

I'm not writing this to brag, I'll guarantee most of the guys on this site are better hunters than we are. What I've described to you is the reality of Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, etc.

I don't know if MN can ever be that good, but I do know that I'll never find out in my lifetime, which is why I suggest to guys that want better hunting that they leave and go find it. I'm trying to help them. I gave up on trying to change things here, and now I'm P.O.'d at myself for getting sucked back into it.

[harvey lee]

I have hunted on the Milk river in Montana and done very well. Not brasgging but I have harvested B&C, P&Y and North Dakota #38 all time if memory serves me well. Those big bucks are fun to hunt.

In one 2 week period of hunting one season, I saw more quality bucks that I saw in close to 15 years of hunting in Mn locally. I now hunt in ND and in the past years have also done very well on bruiser bucks.

I really do not get to pumped for the big racked bucks as I like to eat the younger does for tablefare but it is still fun to see them from time to time.

The outstate fees are high but it sure is fun. I would love one day to hunt Iowa but I just cannot get myself to spend that much for a buck tag. I am sure one day I will but I need to hurry up as I think my archery days are getting close to the end.

[mitch]

I just moved to Iowa and I love how the seasons work down here. I bow hunt and it gives bowhunters a chance to hunt the rut. I've seen quite a few bucks, but the only ones to give me a shot opportunity have been small. The big bucks I have seen have been out of archery range, but within gun range. So clearly more mature bucks would survive an archery season during the rut vs. a gun season during the rut.

The gun hunters will have an opportunity to harvest these bucks later in the season. The bucks will be less vulnerable since the rut is over, so fewer mature bucks will be shot after the rut than if the season was during the rut.

So the equation in Iowa is more bucks survive the rut + more bucks survive the gun season = more bucks for next season.

The way I see it gun hunters will get deer no matter what time of year it is by doing drives, longer range, party hunting, etc.

I would like to see MN do something similar with their gun season. I agree southern MN and northern MN are two completely different animals. Have the gun season start the last week of November in southern MN and the week before that in northern MN. I think just moving the gun seasons back would significantly improve the quality of the deer herd in MN. MN has much more deer habitat than Iowa and I think we could easily overtake them as the top big buck destination if some changes were made to the gun seasons.

If it sounds like I'm bashing gun hunting that's not my intention, I gun hunt too.

[1johntimm]

You do realize that MN is already one of the very few states that's one buck only right?

Party hunters shoot everyone's buck that they see for their party.

[Big Dave2]

If you guys already have shot all of these monster bucks, why do you need to shoot more? Why not leave them for someone else to shoot? Why do you have to SEE monster bucks every year let alone SHOOT one every year in order for your hunt to be considered successfull?

Tonka, by the way, it's not the first time I've heard that. Please don't take it personally, but I've had a lot of guys on here try to tell me how good the hunting is here. I prefer to believe my own eyes and experiences over some magazine article or "look in the outdoor news, there's big bucks everywhere" argument.

I probably spend somewhere around 150 - 200 hours bow hunting in MN every year. I haven't seen a P&Y buck since the last one I shot in 05. That particular spot has houses on it now. I hunted 5 days in KS this year. I saw 16 different bucks, some of them more than once. One of them my brother killed, 150". One of them I killed, 177". My Dad killed a 144" buck, and saw at least 2 others that were P&Y. My Dad saw a dozen different bucks in one morning sit!

I'm not writing this to brag, I'll guarantee most of the guys on this site are better hunters than we are. What I've described to you is the reality of Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, etc.

I don't know if MN can ever be that good, but I do know that I'll never find out in my lifetime, which is why I suggest to guys that want better hunting that they leave and go find it. I'm trying to help them. I gave up on trying to change things here, and now I'm P.O.'d at myself for getting sucked back into it.

[Big Dave2]

In one 2 week period of hunting one season, I saw more quality bucks that I saw in close to 15 years of hunting in Mn locally.

That's the difference between you and me. I think that EVERY DEER I see is a quality deer. I don't judge them by antler size.

[Musky Buck]

Boy is my shoulder flaring up and I know a doctor who would be quick to get me on a crossbow so lets move it back sure and I can crossbow the rut. I don't think it would make a big difference in the buck harvest as the runts would be taken out either way, what would it do to the muzzleloader opening date ? Some areas of MN they shed pretty darn quick and do you want bucks taken that maybe people thought were does ? But yes, the deer would get more nocturnal and save some bucks especially young but we can save em by not shooting them during our normal where it is rifle season. Later would be better for me really, got tamarac swamps to hunt, other people sell your land now because the deer in a snowy year are gone and you could expect snow on the ground if rifle is pushed back.

[reinhard1]

except for fawns i agree with you. i am a meat hunter when i deer hunt. i know a bow hunter who puts in a lot of hours just for one buck. he studies his habits in the summer, through fall, has a bunch of cameras out and then put's up his portable for bow season. so i can appreciate his effort, but that's not for me and never has been. i figure that big one will come along in time or maby not. where i hunt it's an intensive are and i do buy one extra tag. this year we were two for four of us. last year i made over 200 pounds of sausage of different kinds, this year it will be less as far as venison. main part of hunting is being there and the fellowship with your friends. good luck.

[Jameson]

With the reduced acreage we have to hunt from land being developed and having 500,00 buck tags it wouldn't make a difference when opener date is. Reducing the number of buck tags is the most effective management option available.

[B. Amish]

With the reduced acreage we have to hunt from land being developed and having 500,00 buck tags it wouldn't make a difference when opener date is. Reducing the number of buck tags is the most effective management option available.

+1 but, could the guys pushing the hardest for changes deal with this?

[Big Dave2]

I find it ironic that people who like to shoot big deer want to move the season out of the rut, so not as many people have the opporunity to shoot a big deer.

It makes perfectly good sense Sandpoint, these guys have already shot a monster buck under the current rules so why not make it harder in the future for younger hunters like my son to do the same.

[Big Dave2]

except for fawns i agree with you. i am a meat hunter when i deer hunt. i know a bow hunter who puts in a lot of hours just for one buck. he studies his habits in the summer, through fall, has a bunch of cameras out and then put's up his portable for bow season. so i can appreciate his effort, but that's not for me and never has been. i figure that big one will come along in time or maby not. where i hunt it's an intensive are and i do buy one extra tag. this year we were two for four of us. last year i made over 200 pounds of sausage of different kinds, this year it will be less as far as venison. main part of hunting is being there and the fellowship with your friends. good luck.

I agree 100%

[creepworm]

I realize that it gets tougher to hunt the cooler temps as I have a hard time going out in the cold mornings. I am not 20 or 30 any more and I understand what you are saying but, they do make warm clothing for those colder days to withstand those temps.

I realize what I suggested will never fly as some just want to shoot anything when we have very warm temps. Plus, the DNR would never chance losing a few license sales. That's what it realy is all about for the state is the incoming dollars.

The only thing that would change from my suggestion would be one would hunt later in the year. Everyone could still shoot what they want and the bigger bucks could pass their genes on to more does. Yes, it could possibly be a bit more difgfucult to harvest a larger buck as they would not be running quite as hard but then there is always the second rut too.

I do not believe that the average temps would change that much by extending the rifle season by 2 weeks or so. Where I hunt in ND, one can have snow and cold temps the 1st of November for the opener. 2 weeks later is not that much different than when I hunt the ML season.

Buckkiller, I do not believe that there would be that many more bucks as the state or most can control the herd size by license sales. There would hopefully be more larger racked bucks due to not harvesting the bucks when they due make a few mistakes that they normally would not during the rut. Yes, it would be harder to harvest a bigger buck but, that's hunting.

As far as the fighting, there will always be fighting and with what I have suggested, I do not see the herd size increasing but I do see the antler size maybe increasing.

What I am trying to convey is that we allow the bigger mature bucks to pass thier genes before they are done breeding. Nothing more, nothing less.

So could the smaller bucks, so the only thing gained is that a few less bucks would be shot. The genes being passed on really have no merit in this discussion.

[harvey lee]

I thought and I guess I should not have that just maybe we as hunter could come up with a program that would better the deer hunting for all of us that enjoy the deer hunting.

I have no idea why everyone wants the season to work just for them when if we all could agree on another option, the hunting just may be better for all.

My bad.

Big Dave, your son can shoot a larger buck anytime if he is willing to go out and do the scouting and everything else needed to harvest one. I know many areas in other states where ones odds of harvesting a larger buck is much greater than MN and that is why I choose to leave Mn and hunt elsewhere. I have never shot a book buck in Mn but I have shot 4 others which were large enough for either P&Y or B&C in other western states.

Most hunters who target larger bucks do homework all year long, and go to the point it can turn into a part time job to harvest a brute.

Sure, one can by accident simply shoot one but thats a very small percentage.

Sandpoint, one can still harvest larger bucks out of the rut if they do all thier homework most of the year watching and patterning these brutes. I suggested this to see if one could move the rifle season out of the rut to let the larger ones do more breeding and not the cull bucks. Yes, it would be more diffucult to harvest a larger buck if we do not hunt them in the rut. If you choose to shoot whatever, why would it be so bad to move the opener a bit later. One can shoot a doe, fawn or smaller buck just about anytime without too much work.