Opener date

[harvey lee]

I know this would not be to popular with many fair weather hunters but, I would love too see the opener for rifle moved to after the rut.

I do believe that we could increase the size of the bucks if we did this.

I also realize some would not harvest a buck but in the years to come, we would harvest on average some nicer bucks by not taking bucks easier during the rut.

[bogwalker]

Yep.

[jay83196]

Agree I thought it used to be years and years ago ? Around thanksgiving...

[tracker x-2]

Agreed keep the lead slingers out. So us Stick and string guys get some more time.

Ha. In all reality I think It would help

[ANYFISH2]

It may help, not for certain though! There will still be 500,000 hunters out, most of whom looking for any deer, which is just fine.

The biggest thing that will come from moving the season later is we WILL lose hunters(so maybe not 500,000 in the woods?) that may help the some bucks grow older. Nice we want antlers at the expense of others enjoyment!!

I am infavor of most managment changes for myself, I will not push to change other tradtions or styles to benefit myself.

We are hunters, shoot what you want, let others hunt how they want. Stop trying to change seasons/regulations to better your standards.

(Harvey I highly respect you on here, this is not at you but, the idea itself)

[BuckKiller]

Ive thought about it too (hours and hours in the stand) How about we just swap muzzleloader and rifle seasons around? I hunt from sept. To december so it doesn't make me any difference when the seasons are.

Even if its only bow ill be hunting the rut, shooting the same deer so it wont make any difference for me.

And yes I agree with the previous post... too many people are trying to change things to fit their standard. If you want to hunt a certain way then do it... pick up muzzleloader hunting.

[Solaris79]

I'm not very familiar with deer activity around any other parts of the state except western MN, so I'm severely limited to what I've experienced. Based on my own experience observing whitetails in those areas and the idea that the proportion of hunters in the field goes up dramatically during firearms season (this alone pushes deer around a lot more in those ares at first), I don't think it would really have a whole lot of noticeable effects on the numbers of larger mature bucks in the areas I've hunted.

I only say this because the area's I'm familiar with see variable levels of continued rutting activities from early November that runs all the way into mid December, which in reality makes the big boys vulnerable for quite some time. The big boys in my old stomping grounds start moving when they know the does are starting to get frisky (normally sometime the 1st week or so of November) and they don't stop until either the does and yearlings stop being frisky (which in those ares normally doesn't happen till the 1st to 2nd week of December or so) or hunter pressure forces them nocturnal. After the general firearms season pressure subdues, the big boys oftentimes come back out during daylight to continue their pursuit of love. Any way I look at it, in western MN the big boys are at their most vulnerable point from about the beginning of November all the way through the 1st or 2nd week of December because they just keep cruising looking for the next hot doe between meals and naps.

I'm of the opinion that in the area's I'm familiar with APR's, earn-a-buck, or other options would be a better solution; plus, if we moved the firearms season to a later opener, what do we do or how would we re-schedule the muzzy season?

[00rowe]

I think the later gun season would also provide some protection of the mature bucks which are obviously most vulnerable during the rut. It might help with the amount of does bred with the orange army not disturbing the peak of breeding season. If we move the season back one week, we could either start muzzy season a week later to give a break between seasons or shorten the muzzy season and allow scopes.

I think there is more to moving the season back than "trophy" hunting. Most of our neighboring states have later seasons, albeit they are further south, Wisconsin hasn't had a problem with the statewide 9 day season and their weather varies greatly from north to south.

Mike

[Solaris79]

I'm wondering if our dates were set to allow cross-state hunting opportunities or are basically a major financial resource for our state and others as well. We used to have a consecutive statewide season as well; however, it still began earlier than Wisconsin of Iowa. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than financial reasoning, but I bet its a major influence on the deciding factors when setting seasons and dates, especially with states we have reciprocal agreements with.

[harvey lee]

I think the later gun season would also provide some protection of the mature bucks which are obviously most vulnerable during the rut. It might help with the amount of does bred with the orange army not disturbing the peak of breeding season. If we move the season back one week, we could either start muzzy season a week later to give a break between seasons or shorten the muzzy season and allow scopes.

I think there is more to moving the season back than "trophy" hunting. Most of our neighboring states have later seasons, albeit they are further south, Wisconsin hasn't had a problem with the statewide 9 day season and their weather varies greatly from north to south.

Mike

Thats why I would like to see the season changed is to protect the larger bucks. Everyone can still go hunting but in the end, for those who would like the chance at a larger racked animal would have that chance. All others would still hav just a great a chance at harvesting a deer. It would leave no hunter out by changing the opener later.

Iowa also has moved to a much later date and they have some of the best hunting around for numbers and quality of the bucks.

This is not simply a do this for a few who would like to see larger deer but the outcome for all would still be the same. Hunt and your chance at a deer is still there.

As far as me wanting to shoot a beast of a buck, years ago I was really into the racks but now I typically apply for a doe tag but once in awhile I do go out for the rtack but that is simply not the norm any more.

I have shot my share of quote trophy bucks and now look for tablefare and the does fall better into that scenario.

It can work.

[harvey lee]

Ive thought about it too (hours and hours in the stand) How about we just swap muzzleloader and rifle seasons around? I hunt from sept. To december so it doesn't make me any difference when the seasons are.

Even if its only bow ill be hunting the rut, shooting the same deer so it wont make any difference for me.

And yes I agree with the previous post... too many people are trying to change things to fit their standard. If you want to hunt a certain way then do it... pick up muzzleloader hunting.

I already do hunt with a ML.

All I would like to see is a season where we can protect the larger animals.

One could still go out and shoot a spike or a forkhorn if they choose to. I did not suggest a APR rule at all.

So, I am not suggesting to take anything away from anybody.

You could still shoot all the smaller bucks that you want too if you choose to do so.

I do not understand why others think that moving the sseason opener later is telling anyone what to shoot. You can still harvest what you please.

I would just like to see that the larger bucks have a better chance to pass their genes onto other deer. You could still shoot them but let's let them breed a few doe first.

Not telling anyone how to hunt, not sure where a few came up with this.

[Big Dave2]

Sighhhh.

Too bad the sport of hunting is ruined forever.

[Bear55]

How about moving rifle season up 2-3 weeks to mid Oct?

[BuckKiller]

I already do hunt with a ML.

All I would like to see is a season where we can protect the larger animals.

One could still go out and shoot a spike or a forkhorn if they choose to. I did not suggest a APR rule at all.

So, I am not suggesting to take anything away from anybody.

You could still shoot all the smaller bucks that you want too if you choose to do so.

I do not understand why others think that moving the sseason opener later is telling anyone what to shoot. You can still harvest what you please.

I would just like to see that the larger bucks have a better chance to pass their genes onto other deer. You could still shoot them but let's let them breed a few doe first.

Not telling anyone how to hunt, not sure where a few came up with this.

Got ya... I read an article in the outdoor news last week or the week before that said most does get bred nov. 7 -10. So I see your point by moving the season back a couple weeks... on the other hand there are plenty of bucks that don't get shot that can and will do the breeding.

If there are more bucks during the breeding season wouldn't there be more fights and more injuries and deaths from other bucks? Just a thought

[ANYFISH2]

Harvey, I did not mean to insinuate that you wanted to tell anyone what to shoot.

My concern comes from MY thought that we would loose participation due to weather conditions. As well as a less dispersed population of deer. Many areas become nearly devoid of deer after winter starts to take it grip, this can happen even in early November, but is more likely in late November.

Like I said earlier, I coul live with any changes myself. I do know if it where changed to near Thanksgiving I would loose atleast two members of my party. At thier age and enthusiasm it just wouldn't be fun to hunt in more adverse conditions.

[00rowe]

Another person that doesn't understand what QDM means, not trophy deer management but Quality deer management, an overall healthier deer herd. QDM encourages the taking of DOES for meat and to balance the overall deer herd. There are no "standards" of antler size for taking a buck. Just encouraging the harvesting of mature bucks to increase the buck:doe ratio. Maturity has nothing to do with Boone and Crockett, take a look at many of the photos posted by members on this forum, many large bodied bucks without a "trophy" rack, which does not diminish the overall "trophy."

I know this has been discussed a million times here but the ignorance still amazes me. I've seen it work in a pretty large area with multiple landowners, some do not participate, but they still reap the benefits. Kids still enjoy hunting, people that grew up not hunting are still introduced to the sport and are able to shoot whatever they want. Older guys that refuse to pass on any antlered deer still shoot there buck. Nothing has changed, except there are a few more mature bucks and overall a better buck:doe ratio.

Mike

[CrewJones]

Mid october would be perfect then everyone could sit in the stand when hardly anything moves like us bow hunters

[harvey lee]

I realize that it gets tougher to hunt the cooler temps as I have a hard time going out in the cold mornings. I am not 20 or 30 any more and I understand what you are saying but, they do make warm clothing for those colder days to withstand those temps.

I realize what I suggested will never fly as some just want to shoot anything when we have very warm temps. Plus, the DNR would never chance losing a few license sales. That's what it realy is all about for the state is the incoming dollars.

The only thing that would change from my suggestion would be one would hunt later in the year. Everyone could still shoot what they want and the bigger bucks could pass their genes on to more does. Yes, it could possibly be a bit more difgfucult to harvest a larger buck as they would not be running quite as hard but then there is always the second rut too.

I do not believe that the average temps would change that much by extending the rifle season by 2 weeks or so. Where I hunt in ND, one can have snow and cold temps the 1st of November for the opener. 2 weeks later is not that much different than when I hunt the ML season.

Buckkiller, I do not believe that there would be that many more bucks as the state or most can control the herd size by license sales. There would hopefully be more larger racked bucks due to not harvesting the bucks when they due make a few mistakes that they normally would not during the rut. Yes, it would be harder to harvest a bigger buck but, that's hunting.

As far as the fighting, there will always be fighting and with what I have suggested, I do not see the herd size increasing but I do see the antler size maybe increasing.

What I am trying to convey is that we allow the bigger mature bucks to pass thier genes before they are done breeding. Nothing more, nothing less.

[RiverFish]

My concern comes from MY thought that we would loose participation due to weather conditions. As well as a less dispersed population of deer. Many areas become nearly devoid of deer after winter starts to take it grip, this can happen even in early November, but is more likely in late November.

WI gun season just started yesterday and runs through next weekend. I've ony lived in WI for 8 years but have not heard of any one not going hunting because of the weather.

[nonteepical]

My brother lives in wisconsin, and when i've hunted with him over there, theres as much rutting activity during wisconsin season as minnesotas. the whole month of november is the rut, we hunt the beginning they hunt the end, i don't think it would make any difference moveing the season unless it was taken out of november all together. If you want older bucks you have to stop killing the young bucks, thats the bottom line.

[harvey lee]

One will never be able to tell others or make it law that smaller bucks should not be shot as we all know unless we have a statewide APR and I do not know if we really need that. Too many dead deer left lying in the woods as some will shoot a deer and then check if it is a legal buck. Not right but it will and does happen.

Some are looking for simply getting some tablefare and thats all more than fair for them to do. Maybe just beacuse I would like to see some larger bucks does not mean all want too.

I guess there maybe is no way to have a season where all can have what they each want. Tough decisions for the DNR in each state.

Heck, I am fine with moving the opener to Dec.

[ANYFISH2]

Riverfish, It's just a thought, not fact, just my gut feeling. I just know if temps start at single digits Some of my party isn't hunting any more or effort falls way off. Just my opinion.

Plus Minnesota's temps are cooler than Wisconsin's on average, we do don't have the effects of the great lakes that sconie does, Wisconsin is just milder, most years.

Thanks for the conversation guy's, I think we all want to see improvments, maybe we will be involved in finding the right fit for Minnesota.

[candiru]

I am not saying there is a biological reason, but in fairness, if gun hunting is closed during the rut, bow hunting shold also be closed. If gun hunters give up something, bowhunters need to.

I don't like the idea over all. It would maybe work in the southeast. In corn country, it might make things worse by insuring that the corn is down every year.

[Big Dave2]

I know this has been discussed a million times here but the ignorance still amazes me.

Me too!

[lakevet]

Just a little background for those younger than me or short memories. Even those younger faces heading up the DNR now are not as familiar with this as I believe they should be.

Before 1971 (season closed) the rifle season was the same (Thanksgiving week) as Wisconsin has now.

Thanksgiving week is when families are together and kids out of school and harvest usually over down on the farm. Perfect time for deer season tradition to thrive in. However with an extremely low deer population and closed deer season the MN DNR and only the MN DNR (not surrounding states) decided to go to a new management system called bucks only and limited antlerless permits by drawing COMBINED with shifting the dates of the hunt. Purpose was to help deer herd rebound faster. It worked.

However some other consequences occurred.

1) SEASON DATES MOVED TO PEAK OF RUT (and lengthened from 9 to 16 day season in the north) TO MAXIMIZE HUNTER CHANCES OF SEEING AND SHOOTING A BUCK. Fearing decreased hunter participation (loss of license sales and income) and backlash against having to pass on antlerless deer, the DNR shifted the season to the time frame THEY BELIEVE to be when bucks are most vulnerable. Increased buck sightings and success help defuse hunter resistance.

For those into buck doe ratios and such, do you think this may have had an effect on the ratio?

2) Hunters trained to preferentially, if not exclusively, shoot bucks. Before 1971, the vast majority of hunters shot the first legal deer they saw. Now 40% of us refuse to shoot a doe under any circumstances.

3) Hunters have now been trained for decades in the mindset that success is to "shoot a buck, any buck" and the question you are asked shifts to "Did you get your buck" instead of "Did your group get any deer".

4) Hunters become dependent on bucks increased vulnerability at this time, especially young bucks being stupid during the first rut of their lives. Hunting tactics focus on targeting rutting bucks intensely.

5) Minnesota begins dropping in big buck entries in record books.

In a nutshell, Wisconsin and Iowa kept the traditional season, and Minnesota continues to experiment, experiment, experiment, experiment...........

And those interested in book bucks say Wisc and Iowa have generally been doing a "better job" than Minnesota.

Not proposing any solutions, just saying when you push for new laws and changes, you might not realize all the implications.

And the study of history can help one make intelligent choices in the present.

Anyone older or with a better memory than me feel free to chime in with corrections on anything I missed.

lakevet