ATTN: Deer hunters

[96trigger]

Quote:

you don't need much other than a weapon to harvest a deer. Most folks that are poor and hunting for food aren't buying a new bow/rifle every couple years, traveling long distances, and buying the latest scent-lok clothing. If you have a place to hunt that isn't very far away (and I'd wager a LOT of folks that hunt for food do) your transportation costs are minimal. And like getanet mentioned, annualized cost of weapon + ammunition are not much. It can be VERY economically efficient to hunt for food. Saying it isn't is disengenous.

I know that, I'm saying that there are very few people like that.

How many people do you know that hunt? How many people that you know that hunt are living off venison?

Also, don't we all hunt for food?

[B. Amish]

lots of people use venison to displace buying beef. ain't nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone. use your hobby to save some money on grocery's.

[96trigger]

Again, I am not disagreeing that people use venison. I am not saying that it doesn't ease a financial burden on some. I'm just saying, that not many people are reliant on venison. Look at the people that say they are reliant on venison, and then look at what they drive. It gives you a good idea of how reliant they are. Don't get reliant confused with cheap.

[mrklean]

i have never bought into the need venison to feed family argument im sorry, unless you are skinning, deboning and eating the meat without making it into anything else no sausage, sticks anything i dont buy it. You can go to meat markets and talk to the people there and figure out what farmers are bringing cattle in for slaughter and need people to buy 1/4 1/8 of it still at less then $2 a pound processed wrapped everything which includes burger steaks etc that sure seems more affordable then going out and shooting a 150 pound deer.

[Getanet]

96Trigger, I'm not trying to pick on you but you said in other threads you've passed on more than a dozen deer this year. You've made a choice to make the drive as many times as you have, other people won't.

Mrklean, it's not that hard to process your own deer. I realize many people pay to have it cut up, but many people don't. I think you're trying to draw too fine a line between a literal need - as in they would have absolutely nothing else to eat - and taking a great financial burden off the family grocery budget.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

As for bow hunters taking a week off. It is statistically proven year in and year out that the bow hunters take a very insignificant number of mature bucks a year compared to firearms and muzzle loader. Taking a month off during the bow season would do nothing.

Do you have the statistics for MN available? I'd like to see them..

Here's the situation in Wisconsin:

Quote:

In 1966 about 85,000 licensed archery hunters took just under 6,000 deer. In 2010, the number of bow hunters had swelled to 260,000, and they harvested 87,000 deer, 36 percent as many deer as taken by gun hunters in the previous year. The 2010 bow buck harvest was the third highest on record. Pope and Young record book entries show Wisconsin as the leading stat for large-antlered whitetails.

[mrklean]

2010 archery license told res and non res and youth 102,371 total archery harvest 22,057 success ratio 17.8 compared to 35.6 for 595,263 gun hunters

[heat checker]

As a bowhunter, I feel cheated by the fact that firearm hunters get the best window of opportunity year after year. Every year it's the same. Action starts to pick up a little, then bam, i'ts all over. Hand it off to the orange army.

[goblueM]

I don't feel cheated as a bowhunter... you get to hunt for a heck of a lot longer time than firearm hunters

[swamptiger]

Quote:

2010 archery license told res and non res and youth 102,371 total archery harvest 22,057 success ratio 17.8 compared to 35.6 for 595,263 gun hunters

Those stats don't reveal the number of mature bucks harvested in archery season. The other thing is I'm thinking a good percentage of archers also pick up a rifle in rifle season if they weren't successful in archery season.

[mrklean]

well we will never know percentages since that isnt reported to the DNR, and P&Y or B&C are really reliable since people can enter a deer anytime. But if you just look at the number 600000 vs 100000 who do you think shoots more?

[96trigger]

Quote:

96Trigger, I'm not trying to pick on you but you said in other threads you've passed on more than a dozen deer this year. You've made a choice to make the drive as many times as you have, other people won't.

Yes, I have, and I am not complaining and I do not have a deer in the freezer. I have passed because the shots were either unethical, or it was by choice. I either couldn't identify the deer in question as to being a buck or doe, or I chose to pass on small bucks. If you are taking it as complaining, that is not the case. People that depend on venison make a choice to go out and buy a license and try and hunt. There are a lot more profitable and efficient things could be doing if they need to provide for their families that bad.

Again, I am not saying those people don't exist in Minnesota, I am sure they do, but not very many. lets here some instances if you know of any, of people that are so poor they have to hunt deer or starve.

Obviously, I am not one of those people.

[goblueM]

I think the thing is that many people prefer to hunt and put meat in the freezer. And APR and other management tools restrict that.

You have a choice to hunt for a trophy buck, if you enact strict regs, they don't have a choice to hunt for a doe or a small buck for the freezer. That's my issue

You're taking hunting for the average joe and trying to enact regulations that make it a trophy sport and one for highly specialized individuals

[swamptiger]

Quote:

well we will never know percentages since that isnt reported to the DNR, and P&Y or B&C are really reliable since people can enter a deer anytime. But if you just look at the number 600000 vs 100000 who do you think shoots more?

Percentagewise, I'm going with the archer for the biggest bucks..

[mrklean]

So out of the 650,000 gun hunters muzzle loaders included in the month of november you think 100,000 probably less since some will use a gun harvest more mature deer then the group that is six times larger?

[96trigger]

Quote:

I think the thing is that many people prefer to hunt and put meat in the freezer. And APR and other management tools restrict that.

The surveys taken by hunters in zone 3 show it is pretty evenly split, slightly favoring the restrictions. It will be interesting to see what the satisfaction survey is after 3 years. I will say that I have not noticed a difference after year one, but I think all the deer right now are very holed up and very concentrated. Its feast or famine.

[goblueM]

i think that illustrates my point nicely. Even split of people against/for them.

If you're for them, you are free to practice it through your hunting methods. Personally, if I owned land, I would practice selectivity and manage my herd for nice bucks. That doesn't mean I think it should be enacted into regulation

Without APR, everybody can make a choice the way they want. With it, you're taking away freedom to hunt a certain way for a heck of a lot of people

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Amen GoBlue!!!!!

Most people here need to step away from the deer porn in the magazines and television.

[tunrevir]

I am not in favor of APR's statewide for many of the reasons already posted. I an fortunate to hunt a large tract of land in Wisc where we have strict deer management policises in place. We take alot of nice bucks off there each year as a party(typically not me) and that shows me that APRS can work to a degree. What is the downside? I have youth hunters coming through the ranks and they are excited to see deer but they want to shoot something! The hunt and the camp is great but they become a bit discouraged when they can't shoot what in their eyes is a decent buck because of the rules. I like the season structure right now in Mn. I like it for a variety of reasons but 1. is that I can bowhunt right to the rut and have an extremely long season to tag out if I just want to meat hunt. 2. for the reasons that many think the season should be moved the rut is typically in full gear during hunting season with the rifle or shotgun which gives plenty of folks the opp at a buck when trailing a hot doe. 3. I hunt Wisc every year and the first week tends to be decent as the rut winds down but many of the larger deer don't begin to show up again untill the end of the season and muzzleloader during the daylight hours as they are recuperating or hanging with a hot doe. 4. The weather tends to be alot colder during the late season and it is difficult to get the kids out for an enjoyable experience when they are froze half to death. I realize there are many steps one could take to alleviate cold from the equation but they aren't always fiscally practical. I am an avid bowhunter and like the season as it is. That is my vote. Hunter recruitment already lags and when you add cold weather into the equation it takes away the enjoyment that they can have afield. Throw APRs on top of that and you essentially give youth very little opp for success. oh yeah, I forgot, it would also coincide with the Wisc season and would take away the opp to hunt over there both before the slug season with the bow and give me a dilemma on which state to hunt during the rifle season

Tunrevir~

[swamptiger]

Quote:

So out of the 650,000 gun hunters muzzle loaders included in the month of november you think 100,000 probably less since some will use a gun harvest more mature deer then the group that is six times larger?

I said percentagewise. The reason I said that is because the hunter who puts in the most time is the one who has the best chance at a big buck. So the simplest way to increase the numbers of mature bucks is to shorten the seasons - less opportunities to pass up smaller deer in favor of a trophy if the timeframe is shortened.

[InTheNorthwoods]

So, to sum up, you're saying that instead of hunting for food, he either A) illegally poach, lean on charity C) lean on the government, D) buy meat at the grocery store (btw that is MORE expensive than hunting)

and the kicker, you're saying he (and all the other people that don't trophy hunt) should do this because some folks want to shoot a bigger buck. DISGUSTING.

If you're going to try to refute an argument, at least do it in a logical and compelling manner

No, I am not, YOU are saying that. In fact, I DID NOT EVEN MENTION APR'S, "BIGGER BUCKS", TROPHY DEER, ETC.

Sometimes I wonder if people actually read posts before they react.

My post was directed at a specific issue: "hunting to feed one's family" and how I do not believe it is a persuasive argument. Simply put, it is not an economical choice for a majority of people. Do the math. When you add in the cost of licenses, the cost of ancillary expenses, and the opportunity cost (i.e. time away from work to hunt, butcher and process deer) you would be way ahead by working your job or doing side jobs to make money to buy food (which is a sure bet in the grocery store as opposed to the deer woods). Furthermore, I stated that I understand that there are a multitude of reasons one would hunt "for the meat" - but the underlying point remains the same, it just isn't logical to suggest it is cheaper to hunt for your own meat FOR MOST PEOPLE than to buy it in a grocery store in today's world.

[Laska]

Well I seriously didn't mean for an arguement I was simply stating my views. As for harvesting deer I make my own hamburger and steaks, roasts and my buddy on the farm I hunt supplies all casings and seasonings and owns his own 15x15' smokehouse. Processing is al on m and I liv 5 min from the farm. As far as beef goes I help raise angus beef cows and not even I can get it for under $2lb processed myself. I could post my freezer pic for all of u to show u what I have in the freezer but I ain't goin to. I recently lost all my freezer food and seriously only have venison in it now. With everything else I have to pay for with my wife on a measly uneployment check there AIN'T NO $ FOR.1/4 cows and I REFUSE TO LEACH OFF THE GOVERNMENT FOR N E REASON therefore I hunt to feed my family and party huntng has helped me do just that many people I agree can't logicly do what I do but like I said "I" need party hunting and "I" am living off venison [PoorWordUsage] got bad this year at its worst but I do what I gotta and the cost of livin ain't getting cheaper. So overall please don't sit there n say I don't buy into it come down here ill show u proof but I ain't speaking for the rest of the hunters out there just me. End of so called arguement

[Getanet]

My family butchers our own deer into steaks, roasts and loins as well. We also grind our own hamburger. Not because we need to, but because we enjoy it, consider it part of the hunt, and like knowing for sure it's our venison in the freezer and not some other guy's. We do pay to have some made into summer sausage, ring bologne, etc. If times were tight for us we could certainly go without processing.

Personally, if I were to add it up I'm sure venison isn't cheap for me, but that's because I choose to buy more - or better - stuff than I need.

I understand how venison can be expensive. Apparently some can't understand how it can be done for far less than they're spending.

[reinhard1]

party hunting at this point is leagal. it is a matter of choice from one group to another. choosing to shoot just deer of certain ages or size of racks is also a matter of choice and leagal. changes in regulations are made by the leglislators at the capitol and there would be the place to go to make changes in the present regulations.

as for me, i hunt in a group of 4 north of Duluth. same place since the 60's. we have been sharing our venison for years. we have never "filled out" all of our tags. i do all the proccessing and sausage making. none of us shoot fawns. that is just our choice. the hunt is only a part of why we go to deer camp every year. being together, the night fire, the day's stories [often repeated], a great meal, and a few evening brews top it all off.

i've seen several large bucks in all those years but have never had a shot at them that i knew was safe to take and in a vital area for a quick kill. we dont shoot in the brush or at running deer. too much of a chance at wounding the deer, and that is something i try to avoid. so if someone is out for meat or a trophy, it is their choice to make as long as it's legal. dont realy have a problem with either one. that's why people buy a licence to do just that and to enjoy our outdoors and follow the regulations. good luck.

[CC Hurl]

Trigger, I have noticed more bucks were I hunt. Welch Towship since the new regs. On camera's and in the feild. Just my observation.

Now on the topic is deer meat economical,not for this guy. I look at it as the cost of doing something I enjoy. Now if I had the money I spend on gas,needed equipment and lost OT I could get alot of meat from the local supermarket. I butcher my own deer so I feel like I am saving money. Lol It's all fun and we all are entitled to our opinions.