FIRE FRAZIER!!

[LMITOUT]

Detroit is on pace for 80pts against the ol' defensive ball coach.

[LMITOUT]

If my math is correct, and it usually is, Ponder is on pace to break crush Favre's interception record in 57 less games than Favre played.

[Coldwater Crappie Guy]

This is not good at all.

[reinhard1]

taking all things in consideration, what does this say about Detroit? the Vike's are one touch away from beating this team after giving them the points. well, the Vike's came back and didn't give up. yes the Vike's gave Detroit the game through mistakes but Detroit is not a playoff team this year. Webb did fine for the time he had today. gave the Lions a scare right down to the last face mask. good luck.

[harvey lee]

Ponder does not appear to be the answer.

Man, he gave the ball away way too much even for a rookie. I thought he may have been on Detroit's side the 1st quarter the way he played.

I would start Webb next week and give the guy a chance to show his skills.

The Vikes have nothing to lose.

[reinhard1]

haveing the ball knocked out of your hands when you cant see the defender is one thing but those interceptions are another. this is the third time he made the same pass for the interception with the same play. you would think by now he would learn from that. i think they will play Ponder again next week. at this point they are looking at all their players, who are putting out 100%. i like the effort the Vike's made in the second half. and for the threads title, they are not going to fire Frazier and that has been confirmed. good luck.

[schmitty3]

Ponder does not appear to be the answer.

Man, he gave the ball away way too much even for a rookie. I thought he may have been on Detroit's side the 1st quarter the way he played.

I would start Webb next week and give the guy a chance to show his skills.

The Vikes have nothing to lose.

Yea lets pick up a guy 12th overall in the draft expecting him to be the franchise quarterback, and pull him after what was his 10th game? or whatever it is. Yea he's been struggling latley, but you gotta keep him in there to learn and be better the next time he gets in that situation. Better yet lets put in Webb who is a freak athlete, but has no future as a good nfl quarterback. But hey he's fun to watch right? yea lets go with Webb

[SFC]

Ponder also has to learn that if you throw int, you get benched. He has showed some signs that he could be the guy. Time will tell. Frazier lost all his leadership ability and credibility when he let the people he was leading dictate what he was going to do, sorry Leslie leadership is EVERYTHING, you have to GO.

[Scott M]

I still say this game says more about Detroit than Minnesota. This is going to go down as the worst Viking football team in an over 50 year existence. Detroit still hasn't found out how to win, at least this week it wasn't boneheaded penalties, it was discipline penalties. As a Vikings fan, at least it was interesting to see the team come back after Ponder spotted them 24. 11 losses, 7 by under 7? Have a good draft and they'll be competitive again. The trouble is this "braintrust" has not drafted well after Round 1.

[harvey lee]

Schmitty

The reason I would have played Webb over Ponder is Ponder is not 100% after his injury. There is not a QB except maybe Farve than can play well enough to win recovering from a injury.

Why play a player still sore and I believe the hip pointer issue did not help either. Play a healthy Webb and maybe you do better and your #1 QB can get 100% healthy, just like Adrain is doing.

We were not playing for a spot in the play offs.

In the long run, it's better we lost anyways as just maybe we can get higher with our draft picks by playing so poorly.

[thatoneguy]

For anyone who thinks Ponder is a lost cause beause he's thrown some picks, get a little perspective. Peyton Manning threw 28 INT as a rookie. Aikman had 9 TD and 18 INT. Carson Palmer had 18 INT. Eli Manning had 6 TD and 9 INT in his 9 games.

Just as it's too early to say Ponder is the franchise QB we've needed for years, it's WAY too early to write him off.

[goblueM]

taking all things in consideration, what does this say about Detroit? the Vike's are one touch away from beating this team after giving them the points. well, the Vike's came back and didn't give up. yes the Vike's gave Detroit the game through mistakes but Detroit is not a playoff team this year. Webb did fine for the time he had today. gave the Lions a scare right down to the last face mask. good luck.

Lions will be a playoff team.

Keep in mind today they had 3 starters out in the secondary, not to mention Suh, Fairley, and Jackson out on the defensive line. They were also missing their top 3 running backs (at times anyways) with injuries. Just like the Vikings secondary has sucked, because of injuries.

I was more concerned with the defensive playcalling and adjustment to Webb in the game than anything

[Ybone]

You're right, Detroit is a playoff team at least they're in the drivers seat with a 1 game lead on Chicago and at least 1 game on the Giants.

[2k1stang]

Frazier: Ponder still No. 1 QB

I must have missed any part in today's game where Ponder was better than Webb. Wait, I guess Ponder was batting .500 for a while there. 2 turnovers in 4 snaps. I guess that is pretty impressive.

Webb breaks a record that was previously held by Fran Tarkenton, and you're still so bullheaded you can't think outside of Ponder for the starting QB? If Peterson can't play next week, I probably won't watch.

Edit: I really loved how enthusiastic Ponder got after Webb ran for that touchdown. It's called a team sport, kid. You can't get upset when one of your teammates does better than you.

[MuleShack]

We had them right where we wanted them today...

If we wanted to score (and win) we could have, but frazier called the perfect play to roll out left (instead of right which is Webb's strength) and take the face mask that didn't get called.

We showed we have the come back ability, but yet we didn't blow our chances for a high draft pick. Genius!!

[zepman]

Easy guys...Ponder was hurt and didn't take a snap all week long in practice. He played hurt with a bum hip which wouldn't allow him to turn or roll out effectively.

Let's face it...the refs did us a good service today by not making that face-mask call on the last play. It just assures us a higher draft pick.

I like Webb...always have. I hope the Vikes keep him in the mix. He certainly adds another dimension to defend.

[reinhard1]

oh yes they will be a playoff team, but not this year. yes they were banged up a bit,[ Vike's were'nt exactly healthy also] but a playoff bound team doesn't let a team behind by 3 touch's at one point come to within one play of winning. i thought Suh was playing yesterday. could be wrong. good luck.

[TR21HP]

A lot of what it comes down to is bad teams find a way to lose and good team find a way to win. Not saying Detroit is a good team but it is all to apparent the Vikes neither have the players or the coaching staff to have a winning team. From a coaching standpoint the offensive play calling is terrible, they don't seem to have confidence in the players and the offensive scheme is too predictable. On the players side, especially the defense, the players seem to lack either the knowledge or athletic ability to execute the defensive schemes. Too many players turning around and looking at each other after routine plays being made against them. You could see Ponder was less than 100% out there and Frazier left him in way too long before pulling him. That's a coaches job to analyze players before a game and not just hear from the player that he's good to go. There are a lot of problems with this current team that is going to take quite a while to remedy I'm afraid.

[Scott K]

We had them right where we wanted them today...

If we wanted to score (and win) we could have, but frazier called the perfect play to roll out left (instead of right which is Webb's strength) and take the face mask that didn't get called.

We showed we have the come back ability, but yet we didn't blow our chances for a high draft pick. Genius!!

Exactly! Again this week, I thought for a minute there they were going to blow the loss, and come out with the win. It is a good thing we have good coaching, and they prevented the tragic win from happening.

[B. Amish]

does anyone know for sure - if they called the facemask, would we have kept the ball? or would it have been tacked on at the end of the lion's recovery?

[reinhard1]

speaking as a non expert, i thought there was a rule that a game cant end on a defensive foul, is that correct? ok, i looked it up and on the last play of the half or game if there is a penalty by the defense the down will be re-played if the penalty is accepted. good luck.

[schmitty3]

does anyone know for sure - if they called the facemask, would we have kept the ball? or would it have been tacked on at the end of the lion's recovery?

Yes we woulda got the ball back half the distance to the goal, and the game can't end on a defensive penalty, so we woulda had another play at the half yard line.

[nofishfisherman]

For anyone who thinks Ponder is a lost cause beause he's thrown some picks, get a little perspective. Peyton Manning threw 28 INT as a rookie. Aikman had 9 TD and 18 INT. Carson Palmer had 18 INT. Eli Manning had 6 TD and 9 INT in his 9 games.

Just as it's too early to say Ponder is the franchise QB we've needed for years, it's WAY too early to write him off.

I was just looking at those stats today as well. If you look at Peyton Manning's rookie year the stats are actually almost identical.

Here are the stats if you projected Ponder out over a complete 16 game season.

Manning- Comp%- 56.7%, TD's- 26, Turnovers- 31(28 Ints), QB Rating- 71.2

Ponder- Comp%- 55.7% TD's- 22, Turnovers- 32(22 Ints), QB Rating- 73.4

Obviously this doesn't mean we can expect him to be the next Peyton Manning but it does tell us that we can't write him off just yet.

[LMITOUT]

How about Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, or Cade McNown?

[nofishfisherman]

How about Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, or Cade McNown?

Here you go.

10 game rookie season

Leaf - Comp%- 45.3, TDs- 2, Ints- 15, QBRating- 39.0

10 game rookie season

McNown - Comp% - 55, TDs- 8 Ints- 9, QBRating- 68.5

11 game rookie season

Shuler - Comp% - 45.3 TDs- 10 Ints- 12, QBRating- 59.6

Not that this means anything but it looks like Ponder is well up on these guys. Ponder has more TD's through 8 games than Leaf and McNown had in 20 combined games. His completion percentage and QB rating is also much higer than all three.

Really the only thing the comparison with Manning shows is that you can't make an accurate judgement on a QB after just his rookie season.