New retractable roof stadium in Arden Hills

[Northlander]

The dome is [PoorWordUsage] and they need to build a new stadium. I would love it to be North of the Cities a bit but Arden Hills is better than where it is now.

I say build it outside Duluth by Esko maybe and make all the southerners come north for a change.

[Getanet]

I can't believe I'm sort of siding with Limit, but I don't believe now is the time to publicly finance a new stadium. The Dome is just fine from a seating capacity, viewing and playing perspective. It's only bad from a financial perspective for the Vikings, as they don't get the parking revenue, it doesn't have as many luxury boxes as an owner would like, and I believe they don't get any - or much - of the concession proceeds.

I'm not losing any sleep that we're going to lose the Vikings if they don't get a new stadium. We're one of handful of teams listed as a possible destination for LA. We're certainly not the only team, and many of the others are smaller markets, have much less tradition, or make much more sense from a geographic perspective than the Vikings. San Diego, Jacksonville and Oakland have a much better chance of being relocated to LA than the Vikings ever will.

The Vikings/NFL play the relocation card because they know it's the only juice they have. $300 million of public funds is plenty of support, particularly in our current budget situation. If the Wilfs can't make that work, they can either sell the team and make a huge profit, or they can continue to mope and play in the Metrodome and make a nice profit.

Either way, the Vikings aren't going anywhere.

[james_walleye]

If they sell the team, the team is gone. No one is going to buy this team and keep it in MN without a stadium. There are 2 options, build a stadium and keep the team. Don't build and they are gone. There is no relocation card. Zygi is holding the upper hand here. It's not like the state can call his bluff. There isn't one to call. Continue to drag the feet and not build a stadium.....just start waving because they are gone.

[LMITOUT]

[james_walleye]

We all know that's your true feelings....and we all know everything else is a complete front. It's called transparency.

[Getanet]

If they sell the team, the team is gone. No one is going to buy this team and keep it in MN without a stadium. There are 2 options, build a stadium and keep the team. Don't build and they are gone. There is no relocation card. Zygi is holding the upper hand here. It's not like the state can call his bluff. There isn't one to call. Continue to drag the feet and not build a stadium.....just start waving because they are gone.

The Metrodome had the exact same issues when Red McCombs bought the team. It had the exact same issues when he sold it to Ziggy. And it would be the same scenario if Ziggy sells the team.

Ziggy absolutely does not have the upper hand here. LA is his only bargaining chip.

Don't build it and they are gone to where exactly? LA is the ONLY destination for any team. And like I said, there are a handful of other teams that are better candidates for relocation than the Vikings. San Diego or Oakland are candidates for relocation based on geography. Jacksonville makes even more sense as they were an expansion team with very little history, zero fan support and a mediocre team at best.

Here are just a handful of reasons the NFL wouldn't move the Vikings:

*The Twin Cities is the largest media market of any franchise mentioned for relocation and media revenue is the very foundation of the NFL's success.

*If you take away the Vikings from the NFC North, who will you replace them with in the region? You can't have a 3-team conference.

*A loyal fan base. Despite a few blimps on the radar, games sellout here. We haven't had a blackout in ages.

[Born2Fish]

Specially with the packers ring post Limt just had.

[FISHINGURU]

This new stadium is gonna be the [PoorWordUsage]!!!

[james_walleye]

Hey get, I guess all the meetings zygi has had with ownership groups in LA are just smoke in mirrors eh..?

[Getanet]

Hey get, I guess all the meetings zygi has had with ownership groups in LA are just smoke in mirrors eh..?

No, not smoke and mirrors. More like posturing, or grand standing, take your pick. No offense, but it’s in the Vikings best interest to leak that type of info so fans get whipped into a frenzy.

This exact same scenario/story is being played out in every other city that has been mentioned for relocation. Here are newspaper articles within the past two weeks from every city mentioned:

Jacksonville newspaper

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400...s-la-story-yawn

San Diego newspaper

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jun/12/nothing-comes-easy-l-san-diego-stadium-proposals/

Oakland Newspaper

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_18248679

St. Louis Newspaper.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/b...cba937dedf.html

Finally, as you hopefully are aware they are still a LONG way from getting any sort of stadium deal done in LA. This is from the San Diego Tribune Story:

Leiweke originally told the L.A. City Council that, if it didn’t agree to a new stadium by sometime in March, the deal would be off the table. “We don’t do this and move on,” he snapped. Last week, he dished out a new ultimatum — July 31, or else.

[james_walleye]

Hate to break it to you but there will be a time very soon where its put up or shut up on this issue. Zero chance this team is playing in the dome in 5 years without a deal in place. That is reality. Turn a blind eye if you want but that is reality.

[FISHINGURU]

I can't wait until they start building this beast. I wonder which year the SuperBowl will be played here?

[LMITOUT]

2000-never.

[Scott K]

2000-never.

I hate to actually agree with Limt on this, but I think he is right, the NFL wont be scheduling any Super Bowls in MN unless there is a roof on top of the new stadium.

[james_walleye]

2000-never.

......That's 5 years before they play one in green bay......

[LMITOUT]

....and I doubt they really care as long as the Lombardi trophy keeps coming home on the return flight from wherever the Super Bowl is played that particular year.

If hosting a Super Bowl is the closest the Vikings will get to actually being in one in the near future, then I guess it's all you guys can really hope for and that is really sad.

[Surface Tension]

New Minnesota Stadium

Facts

- The Vikings 30-year lease expires after the 2011 season, meaning the team has just 10 games remaining in the Metrodome.

- Nearly half of Minnesota’s five million residents watched, listened to, or attended Vikings games each Sunday in 2009.

- 28 of 32 NFL communities have built new stadiums or significantly renovated their existing facilities since 1992.

- The Vikings rank at the bottom of the NFL in revenue, primarily because of poor stadium revenues from the Metrodome.

- Because of the revenue-challenged Metrodome, the Vikings receive annual subsidies of $15-20 million from other NFL teams in order to compete, including smaller markets like Green Bay and Kansas City.

- State lottery proceeds were used in Baltimore and Seattle to help pay for new football and baseball stadiums.

- The Twins ballpark legislation required the team to pay 30% of the total construction costs while Hennepin County covered the remaining 70%. The Vikings have agreed to fund 33% of the costs of an NFL-ready open-air stadium in Minnesota.

- The cost of this project has doubled since 2001. Each year of delay continues to add more costs to the project.

- For the last three years, every player on the 53-man roster and the eight practice squad players participated in the Vikings’ community outreach program.

- The Star Tribune’s largest single day of web traffic was the day Brett Favre signed with the Vikings, when they had over 5.4 million page views.

- The Vikings receive over 300 donation requests per week, and the team tries to fulfill all of them within the five-state attendance area.

- The team believes in user-based funding, meaning those who use or benefit from a new stadium contribute to its cost.

- According to Mortensen Construction, a new Vikings stadium will support 13,000 jobs, including 7,500 construction jobs, and have a $754 million subcontract value. The Building & Construction Trades Council is currently experiencing nearly 40% unemployment.

- Meet Minneapolis, the official convention and visitors association of Minnesota’s largest city, “strongly supports an aggressive public discussion and action leading to a solution to the team’s facilities needs before the end of the 2010 Legislative Session.”

- The Vikings NFC North opponents – Chicago, Detroit, and Green Bay – all generate approximately $30 million more annually than the Vikings because of their stadiums.

- 40% of Vikings season ticket owners come from outside the metro area, with 22% living outside the State of Minnesota. These season ticket owners spend approximately $107 per person outside the stadium on game day.

- The Vikings pay $18 million annually in state and local taxes? A report from Convention, Sports & Leisure said a new stadium and the retention of the Vikings will generate $26 million annually in tax revenue.

- The Metrodome was built for $55 million total, including $33 million in public dollars..The State of Minnesota contributed none of this money, but has received $304 million in tax revenue since the Metrodome opened.

- The original funding source of the Metrodome was a 2%, 7-county liquor tax that converted to a 3%, Minneapolis-only liquor and lodging tax once the site was selected.

- The Metrodome is the 2nd-oldest facility in the NFL.

- The Metrodome has the smallest site footprint in the NFL at 900,000 square feet, compared to the NFL average of 1.5-1.6 million square feet.

- The average public-private partnership with new facilities around the country is 1/3 private and 2/3 public.

- The reason teams like the Cowboys and Patriots can raise more private capital for a new stadium is because they have a market large enough to charge personal seat licenses, something the Minneapolis market is unlikely to accept.

- The cost of a new Vikings stadium is $670 million for open air, compared to the Twins’ $550 million total project costs in 2006.

- A retractable roof adds an additional $200 million to the total stadium costs.

- The Target Center, the Xcel Energy Center, the Mall of America and the Guthrie Theater all included some public funding.

- A new stadium would be publicly-owned and operated and the Vikings would pay rent to play their 10 games each season. During the remaining dates, concerts, high school and college sports and other events could be held in the facility.

- A collaborative study by the University of Minnesota and Meet Minneapolis found that non-metro residents attending the the Vikings-Cowboys playoff game on January 17, 2010, spent $5.8 million in restaurants, hotels, and retail stores and on transportation in the Twin Cities

[Surface Tension]

How about we open a new thread for those non Vikings Fans and debate whether "their" teams stadium should have received public funding?

Lets start with Lambeau Field. Public Financing: 57.3%

Or maybe just step aside, your choice.

[B. Amish]

those 'facts' remind me of a list a husband would come up with to convince his wife that he needs to buy a new pick-up. in the end, they're almost all irrelevant.

[LMITOUT]

How about we open a new thread for those non Vikings Fans and debate whether "their" teams stadium should have received public funding?

Lets start with Lambeau Field. Public Financing: 57.3%

Or maybe just step aside, your choice.

Ummm, the Packers are publically owned.

Might want to use a different example...

[LMITOUT]

those 'facts' remind me of a list a husband would come up with to convince his wife that he needs to buy a new pick-up. in the end, they're almost all irrelevant.

In other words, propaganda.

[LMITOUT]

Want to lower the odds of future pro football lockouts? Of teams loading up moving vans and bolting for greener financial pastures in the middle of the night? Of clubs being run by shortsighted whim and knee-jerk fiat? Of franchises ruthlessly extracting wealth from communities without adding any value?

Heck, would you just like to see beer and ticket prices remain relatively affordable?

If so, then I have a piece of Super Bowl rooting advice.

Cheer for the Green Bay Packers.

Since 1923, Green Bay has been the only publicly owned, nonprofit major professional sports team in the nation. And that doesn't just make the franchise a charming anachronism, or the answer to a barstool trivia question.

It makes them an example. A case study. A working model for a better way to organize and administer pro sports.

Namely, through public ownership, a system that could mitigate some of the most irritating ills plaguing our games -- and with little downside, to boot.

During a 1996 national mayors' summit held in Cleveland to discuss professional sports franchise problems, then-Green Bay mayor Paul Jadin reportedly was mobbed by admiring, envious colleagues. The reason? His city's team was neither leaving nor threatening to do so. Unlike NFL teams in Cincinnati , Seattle and Tampa . And the Houston Oilers, who were being courted by Nashville, Tenn. And the NHL's New Jersey Devils, who had recently considered a Nashville move themselves. And the New York Yankees, who were -- seriously -- thinking about relocating to New Jersey . And the Chicago Bears, who were making noises -- again, seriously -- about moving to Gary, Ind.

Oh, and also unlike Cleveland's Browns, who already had announced their imminent departure to Baltimore, where locals were funding a $200 million stadium and offering other sweetheart incentives, all designed to line then-team owner Art Modell's pockets.

Indeed, while sports owners from coast to coast were doing what sports owners do to city officials -- specifically, exercising leverage to extort cash from panicky, competitive municipalities; or, as Modell put it, "if this league allows the mayor [of Cleveland] to hold the Browns hostage, then every one of you are hostages, too" -- Jadin could sleep easy. Public ownership meant the Packers wouldn't bolt. Not then. Not ever. Not with fans invested in the club, emotionally and financially.

In fact, Green Bay's bylaws contain two provisions that pretty much prevent relocation: (a) no one can own more than 200,000 shares of the team, which means one person can't make the franchise pull up stakes; ( if the team is ever sold, all proceeds must go to a foundation for distribution to local charities. (Fun fact: team bylaws used to stipulate that proceeds would be given to a local American Legion post for "the purpose of erecting a proper soldier's memorial.")

The upshot? Had the Baltimore Colts' ownership structure been similar to Green Bay's, they never would have left in overnight trucks for Indianapolis.

The Browns never would have left for Baltimore.

The Seattle Sonics never would have jetted to Oklahoma City.

Los Angeles might still have an NFL team. Or two.

Moreover, the Packers can't shake down their city by hiding their finances and pretending to cry poor, a la the Florida Marlins. Nor can they threaten to leave to get what they want. Instead -- novel concept! -- they have to work with their surrounding community.

[Scott K]

Ummm, the Packers are publically owned.

Might want to use a different example...

So then you wouldnt be apposed to the state of MN purchasing the Vikings team for a billion dollars of tax money, then building them a billion dollar stadium?

I thought you are apposed to big govt. Why would you want them owning a football team?

[Steve Foss]

LMIT, it's a losing battle trying to make your case amongst Vikings fans using the Packers as examples of success.

[Surface Tension]

LMIT, it's a losing battle trying to make your case amongst Vikings fans using the Packers as examples of success.

How about a refresher as to what that point is you and LMIt are making?