Could they be serious about this?

[LOTWSvirgin]

I brought my truck in to a Ford dealership in New Prague about a year ago for a tranny flush. I got a call from the service manager halfway through the day. His exact words, "We were looking over your truck, and we don't feel safe letting this thing out of the shop with the brakes in this condition." There was another comment about my serpentine belt having a crack almost through it. Roughly $1000 for all that stuff to be fixed to be "safe" enough to let it out of the shop.

What he didn't know...the week before, my brakes were making a funny noise, so I ordered 4 rotors and the pads to go with them. Much to my delight, when we got the wheels off, the pads were well OVER 50% remaining. The noise was a rock stuck between the pad and rotor.

My reply back, "Tod, actually, I'm a step ahead of you. I have the pads and rotors sitting in the garage at home. I had the wheels off 4 days ago, and the pads were way over 50%. How could they have worn that quickly?" After a lot of "well...ummm" the phone call ended, and I drove the truck for another 35,000 miles before I changed the brakes, and never did have any troubles with that "cracked" serpentine belt....

There was probably $500 in profit that they could have made on that service work. Not bad. Unfortunately, 3 weeks ago when I bought my new $48,000 truck, it wasn't from them. Nor will I be back there. EVER. I tell every single person I can about that nonsense, and I will continue to for the rest of my life.

Moral of the story...have at least basic "working" knowledge of your vehicles, or a mechanic you trust. NEVER trust the dealerships.

I am going to agree with you on New Prague Ford I would never buy anything from them again

[Tom7227]

I am not being critical of shops or mechanics, and no I haven't checked the manual. Maybe all of those things need to be done, and if AirJer says the brake fluid can go kaflooey I believe him. Bob has a point about the transmission fluid as well. These things will all be checked, but checked by a shop that I know does first rate work and that I respect and trust. The part that got me started was the prices. $250 for the brake fluid change, others I listed before. It was the total that got me going. I understand the need to make a profit, and I know how the parts and time guides worked at one time. I guess that I just think the total as a package is out of line and that dealer won't get the work.

[fishing tech]

You sure it is the 6k, and not the 15k?

Yep, cuz unfortunatly I work there.

15k is another $80-90.

I am not proud of this but that is they way they want things done.

$147/hr labor rate also.

[leech~~]

I'm all in favor of preventative maintenance and keeping things running a lot longer than most. But $90 for transmission oil change, $95 to flush and change cooling system fluid, $67 for front differential service, $48 for rear, and nearly $250 to change the brake system fluid?

First of all I frankly can't see how any of this would be needed at 30K miles. Sure, check the cooling system and see if it's up to snuff. Transmission test the fluid, very likely OK. That's a lot of grease in those differentials. But $250 to flush the brake system? I have never changed the brake fluid in any vehicle I've own and I surely can't see that it would be needed in this car.

The foolish part of it in my opinion is that my daughter very likely will never even consider going back to a dealership. She probably would have been ok with a bill of around $300 or so bu $700 is just nuts.

I noticed the last time my wife went they more or less gave her a list and cost of everything listed in her service manual that was due or coming up. I told her that when she goes in for any service and they make suggestions for extra stuff to just have them list it on the bottom of the bill and she will show her hubby! That gets her off the hook and they don't keep bugging her for services she doesn't know anything about.

[delcecchi]

I went to subaru.com and looked it up.

At 30k

change oil and filter

change coolant

Change air filter

inspect atf, (filter is permanent)

recommend change brake fluid.

And there are some notes about driving conditions etc.

You can look it up yourself, it will be a pdf.

[Scott K]

Looks like they were just giving you a quote for the recommended work from the manufacturer!

[SFC]

Can the coolant be checked to see if it is bad? Can the brake fluid be checked to see if it is bad? Do they check? Shop around get another opinion, find a shop you can trust. Iam not saying what they have quoeted to your daughter doesnt need to be done. I usually do basic maint. myself. Wife stops to get the oil changed, they tell her the antifreeze needs to be replaced, I call and ask them why, we just had a knew motor installed at the dealership 5k before this, they said it was ok, just going off the mileage. Alot of scammers out their especialy towards women. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[BobT]

So following manufacturer's recommendations is scamming? And if they didn't tell us that it needed to be done and then God forbid something happens, then it's their fault again. What are we willing to pay ro run chemical tests and such? Let me guess. We already complain about the cost of hooking up the diagnostic equipment to troubleshoot a problem. Taking oil and coolant samples and running them through a series of vigorous chemical tests only to find that everything is fine would also be considered a scam. Can't win for losing can they?

[MJ1657]

Great post bobt. I had it happen on a handful of ocassions where something went wrong due to lack of maintenance and the first thing the customer said was that we or someone else never told them they needed to do that so its not their fault.

The funny thing is most of the people that say things like that is the same person that would accuse you of ripping them off by suggesting services.

All you can do is make the customer aware of services you or the manufacturer believes they need and let them make the decision.

[SkunkedAgain]

...a total of $694 on the bill. Oil and filter, three different charges for maintenance, flush cooling, flush brakes, flush tranni, change fluid and front and rear differentials and new air filter.

[Tom7227]

We don't know how the tranny fluid looked upon inspection, which might have revealed that it needed changing. It sounds like some of you are outraged over the total bill, so lets see a breakdown of what you would charge for the total service?

For clarification - the quote was via e-mail after conversation with a service manager. The vehicle never made it to the shop so they inspected/tested nothing.

[BobT]

I just feel we complain too much....me included. We seem to love conspiracy theories and so anyone that is in business and suggests we need something is "obviously" more interested in ripping us off than actually providing a service. Are those types out there? Absolutely, but my hunch is that the majority and by that I mean over 90%, are honestly trying to provide a service. If the price is such a concern we always have the option to get another quote down the road, negotiate a better price, do the work ourselves, or take our chances and not do the work at all. We each need to find a mechanic we feel we can trust and then trust him/her.

I have never discovered a time when this dealership has told me I needed something done and I knew it was not true or later discovered it was not required. In fact they have atually told me that something was needed by my next service visit only to later discover that they had faulty test equipment and so they tested again and found the work was not needed.

I have also found them to be extremely competetively priced. In fact, when they told me it needed a new air filter and it would cost $27.00 I figured I’d do it myself. I stopped on the way home at a local fleet supply and paid $27.00 for a new filter and then I had to do the work myself. I could have had it installed for the same price. The first time my truck needed an oil change I checked to see what their rate was and decided I could do it myself for less. Here’s the result for my 2001 F150 4x4 in the spring of 2001.

Hire the dealership

Their price = $21.95 plus tax @ 6.5%

Round-trip fuel cost to deliver the truck 10 miles to Sauk Centre @ $1.30/gal. = $1.53

Round-trip time to deliver the truck to the shop = 1/2 hour.

Time in the shop = 1 hour.

Total cost in dollars = $24.91

Total cost in time = 1-1/2 hours.

Do it myself:

I wanted to compare apples to apples so I wanted to be sure to use Motorcraft parts. Walmart was the only place I could find them at that time. I remember these costs because I couldn't believe my results.

6 qts. Motorcraft 5w-20 motor oil @ $2.20 each plus tax @ 6.5% = $14.06

Motorcraft oil filter = $3.50 plus tax = $3.73

Round-trip fuel cost to run 17 miles to Alexandria for parts @ $1.30/gal. = $2.60

Round-trip time time to get the parts = 1 hour.

Time to change the oil = 1/2 hour.

Total cost in dollars = $20.39

Total cost in time = 1-1/2 hours.

Doing it myself saved me $4.52 in cash and 0.00 time but there is more.

I did not check my differential fluid levels,

I did not check my transmission fluid level,

I did not check my transfer case fluid level,

I did not greese the steering rack and pinion because I did not know the zerks existed,

I did not check the coolant and top it off if needed,

I did not check the coolant hoses and belts,

I did not check my brake fluid reservoir level and top it off,

I did not check my windwhield washer fluid level and top it off,

I did not load test my battery,

I did not check my tire pressure,

I did not check my tire wear,

I did not measure tire tread depth,

I did not inspect my rear wheel seals for fluid leaks,

I did not check the drive shaft seal on the transmission for leaks,

I did not check my headlights,

I did not check my fog lights,

I did not check my turn signals,

I did not check my emergency flashers,

I did not check my brake lights,

I did not operate my wipers and washer to make sure they swiped clean,

I did not inspect my wiper blades for cracks,

I did not check my horn,

I did not wash my truck,

I did not vacuum the truck interior,

I did not clean the truck windows and mirrors.

I also got to enjoy crawling around on my back under my truck in the dirt and wash my own clothes, and I still had the privilege of disposing the used oil, filter, trash, empty oil jugs, and oil rags myself.

I don’t think I’m getting ripped off at all and the real advantage is the chance they might find things before they become real problems. Like the time they discovered a rear axle seal that was leaking.

[Jaspernuts]

We all know that there are good and bad shops. I think most shops are honest, but you never know how they nickel and dime you to death. Take this example from this morning. Shop wanted 3.5 hrs on a waterpump and my labor guide showed 2.0. I asked the advisor where he got the time and he stated his tech gave him the time. Beware of shops that let techs do the estimate. It will always be over book time. This is why I have a job, so I'm not complaining. And also make sure your parts are at MSRP. Some shops use a matrix which is a fancy word for "we mark them up way over MSRP."

[delcecchi]

I could have missed the differential stuff. I did a quick look at the pdf. Anyone can see it if they look for like "subaru maintenance schedule 2008" and bring up the pdf. It has all sorts of notes about driving conditions as well.

I was surprised by the brake fluid recommendation. But some places must have a humidity problem causing water in fluid.

Folks who get recommendations for service can always read the fine manual, as we used to say.

[delcecchi]

And that is why I mostly gave up on my own oil changes.

5 quarts good oil and a filter is almost what they charge. And sometimes I have a coupon. They must be using oil changes as a loss leader. No way the dealer, even the "quicklane" operation can be doing them for that price even buying oil by the tank load. Gotta be 1/3 hour labor in there.

I guess they make it up changing brake fluid

[fishing tech]

BobT, I still have my 01 f150. The price at Walmart hasn't changed much. The cost for me to have it done at the dealership I work at is $41.

[BobT]

BobT, I still have my 01 f150. The price at Walmart hasn't changed much. The cost for me to have it done at the dealership I work at is $41.

That's still a pretty good bargain. Just logged in to My Garage at Ford's HSOforum and my dealer is offering "The Works" for $39.95. This includes oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection, multi-point inspection (that list I posted earlier), fluid top-off, brake inspection, battery test, filter check, belts and hoses check and because I've been a regular repeat customer since 2000, I also get the truck washed, vacuumed, interior glass cleaned, and interior dash and panels cleaned.

To do it myself I might get the oil changed for just under $20 but then I'd have to add another $5 or more for the truck wash and another couple bucks to vacuum it out. Then I'd have to make another run to town to drop off the waste oil and filter. Of course there's the fun task of crawling under the truck to check the drive train and rotating tires on a dirt driveway that currently is more mud than dirt with only one jack and no impact wrench.

My time to do all those things they do is worth more than the $15-$20 I'd save by doing it myself.

[fishing tech]

Bobt, you may want to check for a $10 mail in rebate on the works package.

I am not sure if that is still going on.

The works package is a great deal for customers. Most dealerships don't advertise it.

[MJ1657]

We all know that there are good and bad shops. I think most shops are honest, but you never know how they nickel and dime you to death. Take this example from this morning. Shop wanted 3.5 hrs on a waterpump and my labor guide showed 2.0. I asked the advisor where he got the time and he stated his tech gave him the time. Beware of shops that let techs do the estimate. It will always be over book time. This is why I have a job, so I'm not complaining. And also make sure your parts are at MSRP. Some shops use a matrix which is a fancy word for "we mark them up way over MSRP."

As you say there are good and bad shops which i agree with. Its not fair to say all shops that let the techs do the estimates will charge over book time.

[Whoaru99]

Vehicles last a pretty long time these days and I'd venture to guess that few of them receive the full mfg recommended maintenance schedule. Just imagine how long the vehicle might last if that were done?

[BobT]

Vehicles last a pretty long time these days and I'd venture to guess that few of them receive the full mfg recommended maintenance schedule. Just imagine how long the vehicle might last if that were done?

Mine is one of the few.