Vultures...what is the popular opinion?

[XRap]

I have been spending quite a few hours trying to put together a pattern for panfish lately and once I finally dialed in all the details I encountered the following.

I don't want to seem like I am whihing but fishing the last two years has made up the majority of my income.

With that being said I recently spent approx. 55 hours putting my clients on fish. This weekend I was absolutely astonished by the audacity of some of residents. Note: This is over the last 30 days and my research was in uncharted territory with no remnants or signs of any activity whatsoever. (fresh unfished water)

My group drilled approximately 60 holes to allow us the flexibility to move around the spot in search of decent size fish. We we took up about 2 acres of real estate on a 114,000 acre lake. We had four vehicles stop, scope us out and move right in on us, three of them attempted to fish the holes that we drilled without taking out their own auger. I have to admit I did say something to the three that didn't bother to say "hey", "Hello"or "inappropriate language" something on the lines of "Boy your Balsy and did you bring an auger?...good!. This isn't a new encounter but I feel that it teeters on the edge of people thinking they are entitled. Like I should expect that I will be moved in upon because I left auger ice trash and that in itself is an invitation for "us to fish your holes". I didn't bust my tucas for those individuals why would they feel that it is acceptable or expected that they should behave this way?

Am I all wet? What is your opinion?

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

Hey XRap, 2 acres of area is a ton space to "reserve" for you and your guests on public water / ice. I say next time keep your area smaller and your # of holes fewer. This question would not even come up during open water season, unless the other guys were so close that you had to deply your boat bumpers.

[XRap]

OK, Fair enough...Note: I didn't say I that I reserved anything in the first place..this is a courtesy issue with me. I am more than willing to work with someone that talks with me about it. Understand that this is .0018% of the entire water body and there is noone within 3/4 miles from me. Calvin n Hobbes, you are telling me that I should expect this because of the effort I put forth and should be willing to accept people deciding that "this hole was put here for me?"

Open water isn't an issue with me.

Thanks for the opinion...please keep them coming.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

I guess when I drill a hole and leave it I don't consider it mine anymore. Your effort is your's, your ethics are your's, it is hard to guess what the next guy to arrive is thinking. Maybe just maybe he fished the spot last week? Or maybe he is scouting you out, take it as a compliment and next time try to keep a lower profile. The .0018% reasoning doesn't mean as much as the 2 acres of area drilled and open water or ice shouldn't make a difference, crowding is crowding. If the other guys were far enough away not to bother you during open water I don't see why it would be a problem now.

[Tom7227]

Well it is a well known phenomena that people are going to come and move in on you - hard or soft water. I suspect that many of us have fished a 'used' hole. You don't say where you were but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it happened in the metro area cause people just aren't that open to contact.

It is obvious to me by what you've written, and how quickly you responded to the first poster, that you're upset about what happened. Have you thought about what you did, or didn't do, to make the other parties feel either welcome or unwelcome? A friendly greeting can go a long way to squaring something like this.

Did this just happen recently? I know that access to some of the water around me - Northern Ramsey County - there is a decent amount of open water at some of the shorelines. That limits access. The other thing is that a lot of folks are getting a bit hinky about the safety of the ice. Perhaps the invaders simply thought 'well they haven't gone through so it must be safe there' and that caused them to move close.

[ihc1]

I had something like that happen to me about 6 weeks ago. I was on a smaller lake by myself and was the only person on the lake. I had about 20 holes drilled in a 100' sq. area and was hole hopping picking up some crappies. A guy walked out on the lake with NO auger and started fishing about 25' from me in the holes I just drilled and didn't even fish in yet. I didn't say anything to him and he didn't say any thing to me after about 15 minutes it started to feel too weird so I packed up and left. I know it's public space but I think when a lake is wide open you should at least say Hi or ask if you can use holes someone else drilled and is still using in an area. In your case if they were fishing holes you already fished and found unproductive I would let it go but if they were pulling in close by I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying something.

[XRap]

ihc,

This isn't by far my first encounter with this type of issue. This isn't a public water v.s. private water issue. It is simply my fellow man being courteous to me and the people around me. There is no compliment in doing this whatsoever, they did not fish the spot a week ago etc. believe me I am the first to give the benefit of the doubt. Considering the issue ihc experienced it obviously wasn't a comfortable position for you therefore you had to forfeit your area because someone else was brash enough to move right it on top of you. This situation is exactly what you make of it...could be no big deal or could have ruined your trip, Kudo's to you brother. As I age I am more likely to use wisdom to understand the situation before I act but I am also likely to be the one to say something when it comes down to imposing wills or simple rudeness. Where is courtesy anymore? What happened to the "Minnesota Nice"

[gr82fish]

What you described has happened to most of us to a degree, where we feel 'encroached upon', especially after we made a virtual 'claim' to an area we drilled and set forth to fish. In those days I drilled 10-15 holes, spaced out evenly in a line, about 100-150 yards long. (My logic indicated that if you can't see the line I made you must be blind!). But discretion took over. I realized that I'm imposing my will/claim on public property, for starters, by doing that, and after a few poor word usage encounters with these 'vultures'/fellow human beings, I became conditioned to drilling no more than 4 holes at a time, still spaced 10-12 yards apart, with the reasoning that I can only fish two holes at a time anyway and everyone else, like me, is free to do as they please out here on the ice - the DNR puts a 10' barrier out there for houses so without a boat to extend my personal space around me, I have to expect anyone to get as close as they please-because they are out there for most of the same reasons I am. Whether they want to talk to me or not doesn't matter - courtesy goes as far as what they have been conditioned to; I don't expect everyone to be as talkative as I am, but it sure helps cut the tension. My options are always: drill 4 more holes and move on, which I do often enough anyway just because I like to move. Such is life in this world we live in.

[gurkster]

I have never fished anothers holes, that is just not my style. However, if you cover a 2 acre area with 60 holes and it is over prime cover/structure/etc it would be hard not to expect someone to fish in one of them. I agree with gr8fish to target a smaller area and then slowly expand that if needed. I drill a few holes and bounce between them, then I drill more if needed to move shallower/deeper/etc. I fish a lot in the Chisago chain and those lakes are hit hard and I have never had an issue like you describe (I know it happens though). I do not make my living fishing, it is just recreation for me, but I understand you being upset when others just crash your party and get the rewards of your hard work and efforts. However, IMO you are asking to much to have 2 acres of any lake all to yourself.

[XRap]

gurkster,

Thanks for the response. This wasn't one of those structure situations it was a huge flat that covers approx. 2 square miles and varies in depth about one foot. I can appreciate what you're saying regarding structure and fishing small water bodies, it's somewhat expected to be encroached upon.

I guess I have to pose the question as to where would you draw the line on encroachment, what is your comfort zone?

Say you drill three holes all within 10 square feet of your position. You are not on structure and there is noone within 100 yrds of you. You put one of your lines down and "Bam" you ice a fish. Now you can only fish two of those holes and someone driving by saw you catch that fish, they stop and walk up (before you can place your Vex, Marc, Aqua View etc) without saying a word and drop a line in the hole you just drilled for your electronics? Should this be expected? Would you say something? What would you do?

[CJH]

Sounds like a normal weekend anywhere w/in 30 minutes of the metro!!!

That being said, in your specific case where its a big lake, no one on it, and on a big flat, I probably would have gone over and said something politely to them. They have the right to disregard what you say as well, although you would hope they had some manners and at least moved further down the flat. Maybe give them the tip on the fish pattern in order to get them to move further down?

Its not an easy situation on a public lake, you run into all kinds. Its human nature to see somebody fishing hard in an area and think they know something you don't.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

XRap,

I also guide during the winter and know exactly what you are feeling.

As you said those type of people are vultures. It would not matter what you said or did or where you were, they would move in on you. My thoughts are that they are "clueless" and the only way they would ever catch a fish is by "vulturing" on your hard work and knowledge.

I live and work on a 40,000 acre lake and put up with the same type of behavior summer and winter. It seems that many people today just do not comprehend what staying out of the other guys space is anymore.

Yeah, I know many will respond with, "it IS public water"! So be it!

[jigglestick]

I have to bite my tongue all the time when I'm out on the big lake.

people set up portables in the driveways I have just plowed for one of my houses.

more than once I have plowed the spot, went to get the house and by the time I get back, someone is set up in this nicely plowed driveway.

I might say something but if they offer any resistance I just go plow another spot. it's not worth the hassel and the law is on their side when it comes right down to it, so yep, I bite my tongue a lot.

anymore, I just repeat to myself, "they just want to fish and catch fish and have a good time like every one else.

I know the things we would like to say to them, heck, I have heard some outrageous threats in my time. I had a camp set up on Upper Red one weekend and one of my friends had a house set up 80 yards from one of the well known guide up there. to make a long story short, in front of the guys wife and kid, this well known highly respected guide went to my friends house and got in his face and threatened him. he told him if he ever saw him on the lake again, he'd drive his v plow right through his house.

that is one side of the line in your "where's the line" question.

I will also add that in taking the level headed aproach will not only keep you from getting an angler harrassment citation, it might result in a customer or possibly even a friend.

I can assure you the other approach resulted in two friends ending a good friendship that day on Red and I can also say that it was a big eye opener for me in the way I approach people and situations on the lake.

I know I don't want to be like that guy.

I do have another option that I keep in mind, I could always go look for a real job....naw

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Jigglestick,

Exactly!

That is the only reasonable way to handle this type of thing! It can be very hard on the tongue though!

Cliff

[TravP]

The other day on Mille Lacs a group pulled about up about 100ft away not ten minutes after we finished drilling holes.They got out with a hand auger haha. As I was getting ready to go ask them if they wanted a few holes drilled one guy proceeded to walk towards our holes. He called his buddies over and started fishing our fresh holes. I was pretty irritated with the situation but they were legal, just ignorant.

[silverbulletguy]

If everyone kept their head outta their arse and used a little common sense we would all be better off. But common sense isn't all that common anymore.

[raymondk]

When everybody is fishing outside early or late ice I wouldn't care less if somebody wants to fish next to me if they have young kids I will go out of my way to help them i fish for the enjoyment of it and if I have somebody to talk to when I fish so much the better i have invited more then 1 person to fish the holes that were hot. this is where the word sportsman comes from...........................

[Northlander]

Ya its crazy the lack of common sense and respect for others out there at times these days. . I had been fishing a spot on a area lake and NOBODY knew about it but a couple friends. Next thing ya know a couple trucks drive by, see us hook a few fish and for the next few weeks they were on that spot every time I went there. Heck they are still fishin it. They didnt have to do any work what so ever! Just found our open holes and started fishing. Vultures is a nice word for folks like this. I pride myself in finding fish in places others dont and putting in the hard work to do so. My pet peeve is those who watch you while you do all this hard work and then swoop in later to reap the rewards without lifting a finger.

Ya its public water but a little respect and common sense would go a long way.

Heck if I see someone fishing a spot when Im scouting I keep going and if I think its a spot worth looking at I go back later if they are gone and check it out.

Im amazed at how many people drive around looking for open holes or holes they can kick open regardless of if they are on spots that would produce.

[PurpleFloyd]

I can see the frustration from a guy making his living guiding but that is one of the drawbacks, if you call it that, of living in a state with lots of public access. My guess is you would see much the same thing if you did guided pheasant hunts on public grounds.

It seems that Minnesota Nice is in short supply ( not directed at the guides) and maybe being proactive and offering to drill some holes slightly away from your spots in return for some privacy respect might work more often than not and possibly lead to a few new friends or customers.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

Ya its crazy the lack of common sense respect for others. I had been fishing a spot on a area lake and NOBODY knew about it but a couple friends. Next thing ya know a couple trucks drive by, see us hook a few fish and for the next few weeks they were on that spot every time I went there. They didnt have to do any work what so ever! Vultures is a nice word for folks like this. I pride myself in finding fish in places others dont and putting in the hard work to do so. My pet peeve is those who watch you while you do all this hard work and then swoop in later to reap the rewards without lifting a finger.

Heck if I see someone fishing a spot when Im scouting I keep going and if I think its a spot worth looking at I go back later if they are gone and check it out.

Doesn't the last sentence look a little out of place?

[Cliff Wagenbach]

PurpleFloyd,

I have done just as you suggested many times! Usually goes very well for all concerned.

The people who really do not know that they are in someone's space do not bother me nearly as much as those who KNOW they are and do not care either!

Cliff

[My_Key]

[PurpleFloyd]

PurpleFloyd,

I have done just as you suggested many times! Usually goes very well for all concerned.

The people who really do not know that they are in someone's space do not bother me nearly as much as those who KNOW they are and do not care either!

Cliff

yeah, I can see that would be challenging at times. Just remember that you are the professional at those times and don't let them drag you down to their level.

[TurnUpTheFishing]

I havnt read every single word in this thread so I may be echoing what someone already said but to play devils advocate. How do you know they didnt have every intention of fishing that spot before they saw you? Example, I went down to the st. croix river with a buddy this winter with the intentions of trying one specific spot. When we started heading in that direction we saw one lone house in the area, no one else remotely close. Turns out that house was smack dab on my waypoint. That guy probably figured I was a "vulture" honing in on him just cause he had his perm there but that's far from the case. We still fished the spot about 20yds from him.

I know how you feel though, Ive had plenty of times where people move in on me and my spots and yes it is frustrating but what can you do? I usually go out of my way to not catch fish when I know people are watching and look bored/clueless hoping they move on.

If Im on a new body of water or looking to try new spots usually Ill check my map and look for structure in an area that is not seeing any traffic, for the most part I try to stay away from others. Sometimes I want to fish a specific spot if someone is there I might move on but I might also fish it (while being respectful to those who are there).

[ihc1]

I think the point Northlander was trying to make is if he notices someone on a spot he won't pull up and fish in the holes they drilled while they are there fishing. Meaning he's not going to bother them he's going to check out that spot another time when no one is there, at least thats what I think he meant.